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Perhaps the worst controls for a plane game...


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killengage #21 Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

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I played wowp yesterday for the first time. I must admit controlling the plane is not as i expected. I flew hundreds of hours in FS9 and FSX and im aware that you cant compare this to wowp. What i really missed is the "arcade" controlling of the plane. I suposed this game is based on a "arcade" feeling , but im not feeling this. Packing the full controlls in only a mouse doesnt work in my way. I was trying to follow a plane but i completely failed in doing that. First thing i did was inverting the pitch on the mouse (so drag down is pitch up). When steering the plane i constantly have to watch my aim circle to steer the plane (meaning that when steering / pitching putting the controll arrow in the aiming circle to level). This takes away the fun to chase the plane , because im more focussed on the steering part. Maybe moving the pitch up/down to the keyboard and improving this would focus the game more on combat instead of controlling.

And im getting nauseous playing wowp, but thats just me (my facial skin became very green playing Unreal Tournament, but ik kept playing it :P)

Edited by killengage, 13 October 2012 - 09:28 AM.


Noclad #22 Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

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As I mentioned in the other topic, the core problem is the attempt to oversimplify the mouse controls, adding rudder to roll movements, auto leveling etc. Remove all the pointless attempts to help the pilot and problem solved.

Specially if this wants to be a fun arcade style game, then look no further than the first game, that I played anyway, to allow for large multiplayer dogfights, BF1942.  Each plane in the game had unique flight characteristics that made each very different to fly in thier own way, so wasn't an oversimplified sim, but the flight controls allowed for full and accurate control with mouse or joystick that with practise allowed for mastery of the planes and ultimately a lot of fun.  Fix the controls in wowp and potentially have a real winner.

SpiritualLiege #23 Posted 21 October 2012 - 01:43 AM

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Hi, new poster here and recreational pilot iRL.

I have a Saitek flight wheel and rudder pedals, as well as a throttle control... the controls feel like I'm in molasses. There's a noticeable delay between the time I move the stick and the time the ailerons actually turn. Turning smoothness and speed seems to be unaffected by whether or not I apply rudder, only elevator and tight turns seem to actually affect it.

Mouse controls are terrible too, since with the keyboard, you can't actually control the rudder save for to move your mouse slightly to the left or right. The mouse pointer also floats back to the center of the targeting reticle, so you have to keep moving your mouse repeatedly to keep turning.

I tried with a gamepad, which makes the game slightly better, but the controls are jerky, and the plane keeps jerking, like I'm being caught in a crosswind. As near as I can tell, this game actually takes place in a completely windless environment, so that's odd.

Throttle appears to only have "super boost" and "idle" options with no speeds in between, so it's difficult to control altitude or shake people with speed maneuvers -- or at the very least, it is not working on my controllers.

As a side note unrelated to this topic, the planes are apparently made out of adamantium, since they take hundreds of hits to down, and some of those old Tier I era biplanes would (in real life) crash if you hit them with so much as a dirty look.

I like the historical aspects of the game, but it's super arcadey right now. I regularly see people at angles that should have them dropping out of the sky like rocks, and yet the game just lets them do it. It looks great, the music is great, the collection of aircraft is great, but the flight model and control scheme definitely needs modification to get it up to flight simulator standards.

Edited by SpiritualLiege, 21 October 2012 - 01:54 AM.


DrSinister #24 Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

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View PostSpiritualLiege, on 21 October 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:


I like the historical aspects of the game, but it's super arcadey right now. I regularly see people at angles that should have them dropping out of the sky like rocks, and yet the game just lets them do it. It looks great, the music is great, the collection of aircraft is great, but the flight model and control scheme definitely needs modification to get it up to flight simulator standards.

The thing is WarGaming is not really going for a full Simulator game, its more of a Arcade/Sim hybrid, just like their WoT is.

Also the reason you see a delay in your controls will be because all actions are done server side.  So if you input roll right, the client needs to send that info to the server and the server says ok and sends it back to the client, then the client rolls the plane right.  So Ping really affects the response of your controls.  From what I have read in chat and in forums 150+ ping your controls are really delayed.  I normally run around 40-50 ping and so a very small delay that you just learn to compensate for. Also the reason they use server actions because this combats against hacks, they have been using this method with WoT and now WoWp and will be the same for WoWs.

Voxfly #25 Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:41 AM

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View PostDrSinister, on 21 October 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

The thing is WarGaming is not really going for a full Simulator game, its more of a Arcade/Sim hybrid, just like their WoT is.

Also the reason you see a delay in your controls will be because all actions are done server side.  So if you input roll right, the client needs to send that info to the server and the server says ok and sends it back to the client, then the client rolls the plane right.  So Ping really affects the response of your controls.  From what I have read in chat and in forums 150+ ping your controls are really delayed.  I normally run around 40-50 ping and so a very small delay that you just learn to compensate for. Also the reason they use server actions because this combats against hacks, they have been using this method with WoT and now WoWp and will be the same for WoWs.

Lol, no...WOT doesn't require split-second adjustments like Live air-combat does.  There can't be delay with controller input.  It's not comprehensive or fair...people won't pay for this level of frustration, while adding to it the amount of physics and awareness of 3D airspace.  Everything else gets you killed instantly...while your own movements to avoid being shot down are delayed?  no way!  I don't think I'd pay to play with a yo-yo joystick and those odds.
They'll need to find another way to combat Hacks.  Warbirds does it, so do other live combat flyers.  

I think they just haven't updated the software yet.  Give them time....Let's see what happens in the next update.
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Argonaut64 #26 Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:09 AM

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View PostDrSinister, on 21 October 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:



The thing is WarGaming is not really going for a full Simulator game, its more of a Arcade/Sim hybrid, just like their WoT is.


A..arc..arc../Sim hybrid?
Good god, you are mistaken. I've seen racing games that are more sim-like then this tub of fudge. (and you know what I eman by racing games...how 60MPH is waaaay too slow to be real)

DrSinister #27 Posted 21 October 2012 - 05:42 PM

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View PostVoxfly, on 21 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Lol, no...WOT doesn't require split-second adjustments like Live air-combat does.  There can't be delay with controller input.  It's not comprehensive or fair...people won't pay for this level of frustration, while adding to it the amount of physics and awareness of 3D airspace.  Everything else gets you killed instantly...while your own movements to avoid being shot down are delayed?  no way!  I don't think I'd pay to play with a yo-yo joystick and those odds.
They'll need to find another way to combat Hacks.  Warbirds does it, so do other live combat flyers.  

I think they just haven't updated the software yet.  Give them time....Let's see what happens in the next update.

Don't get me wrong, I feel it should not be this way also, and I feel that this will be the downfall for WoWp because quick response on the controls is needed for a game like this.  I am just relaying how their client works.  Also I highly doubt they will be changing it anytime soon.  Heck the software they use now for WoT and WoWp is NOT even multicore supported.  There is an upgraded version of the software they use that is multicore supported but even with WoT 8.0 they never upgraded it.  If they won't even upgrade the software for multicore support (when every PC now is atleast dual core and above), why would you think they will change their Server sided controlled actions.

View PostArgonaut64, on 21 October 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

A..arc..arc../Sim hybrid?
Good god, you are mistaken. I've seen racing games that are more sim-like then this tub of fudge. (and you know what I eman by racing games...how 60MPH is waaaay too slow to be real)

Sorry man, this is what I have been told by many others that this is arcade/sim hybrid, so just relaying that info.

bezzar #28 Posted 21 October 2012 - 06:30 PM

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in some cases the OP has a point, the interface need some work, some tweaking and more options, although WG cant satisfy everyone on this issue, so player mods when the game goes live will be a big help here.

His issue with throttle control sound like a problem with his settings, if you are using a j-stick you may need to configure it. My problem with my joystick throttle control is that i cant remove the boost/idle and flaps from throttle lever, i have assigned these functions to other buttons and removed them from the throttle axis but it still goes to boost when i go full throttle. it would be nice not to wast a valuable commodity by accident when the fight gets hairy.

you also wanted your altimeter in metric but if you go to setting you can do just that as well as your airspeed in km/h instead of mph. as for your picture in picture box, that can be set to follow your target or stay on rear view... not sure what else you would want to do with it besides tuning it off.

the rest seams to be lag issues, i just got a new comp and for whatever reason am getting intermittent lag in dogfights despite low graphic settings but have not found a fix yet.

side note on the "yes men", some of these testers have seen far too many people come rolling onto the forums in the first week with the game and going off on rants and raves. it helps to be clear and concise with your problems/questions/recommendations so as not to be confused with those not worth anyone's time. take some time to see if there is anything you missed in the settings that will solve your problem, and basically try not to be a richard.

nokuhobune #29 Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

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anyone played "Heroes in the sky" i loved mouse controls they had i know its a old game but still atleast the planes were controlable

Paul_G_ #30 Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

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I posted a few days ago about the controls. I too was disappointed BUT i should have given it more time because now that i have been playing for a few days im getting the hang of it and am starting to really enjoy this game. I just didn't give it enough time.

boxtosser #31 Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

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View PostGrouchySmurf, on 09 October 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

I have to admit  when i see these guys writing about how gr8 this game is and how "manageable" the controls are, I have to wonder what game they are playing because it is surely not WOWP. I agree with most of what you posted, your right on target. You are also correct about the WG "Yes Men" , everytime we try and critique this game they come out of the wood work bashing us and telling us how gr8 WOWP is. Well the simple plain truth is, as tons of testers have noticed, this game is flawed in the very basic aspect of flight controls. In my opinion WOWP  should still be in Alpha. But it seems that WG is determined to just force this game forward and march it to market. This theory of "getting the game to market" is ruining it. Developers, SLOW DOWN, listen to your testers, there's a reason we are all saying the same things. Do you think it's a conspiracy that most everyone is complaining about the flight model???????? This game IS seriously flawed and until the dev's decide to start taking our suggestions into consideration, this game will never be a viable product..................

And those of us who don't have problems with the in-game controls...what do you want us to do?  Lie?


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ThrawnBlaze #32 Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:05 AM

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you gotta walk before you can run

Voxfly #33 Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:09 AM

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View Postboxtosser, on 24 October 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

And those of us who don't have problems with the in-game controls...what do you want us to do?  Lie?

heheh....agreed. There are obviously variables that are not common.  Shorter stick travel, programmable stick sensitivity/mapping through J/S software vs. using only WOWP settings....

I'd say, when in doubt, give more adjustment options in-game, if you know that many differents Joysticks will be used in gameplay.
Mouse and Keyboard are fairly universal and adjustable through Windows.
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AuraDesru #34 Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:19 AM

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Play War thunder..
Still has a circle for mouse
better then wowp imo for flying..
Not saying its better
I feel that they should remove the circle flying control and make a new system..

Noclad #35 Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:33 AM

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Been playing WT for a week or so. Vastly better all round game. Not least cause the planes are flyable with client side movement and server side lag allowances, as QW first did very well in a much higher paced game that a flight sim, 16 years ago...  Reading the above the main problem for wowp may well be if its true that all control movements go via the server before the player sees the effect. So those on sub 50 pings won't mind it too much or even notice, while those on 150+ will describe it as "molasses". This is how online games were done 17 years ago. We've moved on..

As for the flying control system, again its already been done just right, 10 years ago. BF1942 got the mix just right between some realisim and flight characteristics, while also being very controllable with joytick or mouse, and therefore fun.  WT has a few dif options for flight control, including the one wowp uses, which I hate, but also includes one thats closer to BF1942, but still not quite what I'd like.  Which would be to simply link mouse movement directly to pitch/roll. So if I move mouse say an inch left, the plane 1/4 rolls left then stops. I move mouse 2 inches right and plane 1/2 rolls right. Simple, easy, effective, fun..

_MrPeanut_ #36 Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:14 AM

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View PostNoclad, on 26 October 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Been playing WT for a week or so. Vastly better all round game. Not least cause the planes are flyable with client side movement and server side lag allowances, as QW first did very well in a much higher paced game that a flight sim, 16 years ago...  Reading the above the main problem for wowp may well be if its true that all control movements go via the server before the player sees the effect. So those on sub 50 pings won't mind it too much or even notice, while those on 150+ will describe it as "molasses". This is how online games were done 17 years ago. We've moved on..

As for the flying control system, again its already been done just right, 10 years ago. BF1942 got the mix just right between some realisim and flight characteristics, while also being very controllable with joytick or mouse, and therefore fun.  WT has a few dif options for flight control, including the one wowp uses, which I hate, but also includes one thats closer to BF1942, but still not quite what I'd like.  Which would be to simply link mouse movement directly to pitch/roll. So if I move mouse say an inch left, the plane 1/4 rolls left then stops. I move mouse 2 inches right and plane 1/2 rolls right. Simple, easy, effective, fun..
Not to metion that in WT we can pilot real bombers and not just a attack fighter. The controls for mouse are better in WT but I like using a Joy Stick for WoWP.
I

ArmorStorm #37 Posted 27 October 2012 - 05:35 AM

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We are not ALL saying the same thing. I have about 60 ping and do not feel that the controls are that bad.

lothos_zero #38 Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:54 PM

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I hope I am not being out of line with my suggestion but a very good (in my opinion) flight control mechanic was used in the old x-box game "crimson skies" a few years back. I'm not suggesting it needs to be exactly the same but it made for a fun game that the average person could pick up and play without a huge learning curve. As the controls are at the moment the average gamer would not likely want to invest the time and effort to learn how to effectively pilot a plane long enough to stick around.
WOT is likely at least partly as popular as it is because there is not such a huge learning curve for the controls. Just my two cents..

Bombpier #39 Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:44 AM

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So yea, mouse control as is... most terrible concept for a flight game ive ever played. the game pad made is better, but the complete lack of any effective throttle control or air speed indicators is very troubling, id would also say it lacked a certian smoothness, but i think that bit is related to my slightly higher ping and not optimal graphics.

Nenketsu #40 Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

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I don't have any issues with response times on my end, due to good bandwidth and a central location, but I must agree that a lot of the points that the OP stated would be good issues to work on or towards.

The reticle area does indeed need a lot of work, there is too much clutter in mid-screen and not enough of it is useful information. If the aiming reticle could be animated opposed to remaining static and the speedometer / altimeter could be moved to the bottom or another edge of the screen, I feel that it would be much easier to use overall. I also must agree about the rear-view mirror, that would be a great addition instead of having to choose between target camera and rear-view. As for the actual plane physics, I don't feel well enough equipped in that area to make a sound argument, however, I must agree that it would be nice to have it behave somewhat more realistic.




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