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Me 262 is underpowered


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Panoptic #1 Posted 29 July 2022 - 04:20 PM

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It can get high scores but it takes a lot of effort and skill, and only in the hands of very good players.

 

Especially when non spec it is totally outclassed by premium tier 8 heavies.

 

It is a nice looking plane but I almost never play it. Because why disadvantage myself with the Me262 when I can take P-82B, F-82E, or BV P203?


The P1056 has insane firepower and I find it enjoyable to play. XF5U is also weak and I rarely see it played by good players. XP-58 is difficult but extremely rewarding (credits, XP and fun) when played well.

 

Conclusion: Me 262 needs some love. XF5U too.

 



pyantoryng #2 Posted 29 July 2022 - 04:57 PM

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The 262 had been a hard to use plane since the beginning of WoWP, sadly. The cool factor was because it was the only T8 jet for some time, an early shot at handling a jet.

 

XF5U got nerfed so hard you might as well just go with the Banshee.

 

...but alas, I never was a HF player...I only handle then well enough to get McGuire with a decent success rate...



CorvusCorvax #3 Posted 29 July 2022 - 08:16 PM

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The Me-262 is a fantastic plane, if you get a grip on those guns.

It's the guns that make you a star, or a potato.

It usually takes me one full battle to remember how to use those guns well.
I might not be King of the Hill, but I am the Prince of Potatoes.

wylleEcoyote #4 Posted 29 July 2022 - 08:16 PM

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If i wanted to play easy mode i would play the spitfire and yak 30 line

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pyantoryng #5 Posted 29 July 2022 - 08:19 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 30 July 2022 - 03:16 AM, said:

The Me-262 is a fantastic plane, if you get a grip on those guns.

It's the guns that make you a star, or a potato.

It usually takes me one full battle to remember how to use those guns well.

 

I don't think it's the guns...it's the overall mobility characteristics that make those guns difficult to use...going too fast relative to the target means you barely have any time on target with that short ranged shotgun, and the plane has to stay fast...and making adjustments is a hopeless endeavor with the very heavy control that has bad response.


Edited by pyantoryng, 29 July 2022 - 08:19 PM.


CorvusCorvax #6 Posted 29 July 2022 - 09:42 PM

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Double-post deleted.

(That was kinda freaky, TBH)

Edited by CorvusCorvax, 30 July 2022 - 12:12 AM.

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qu33kKC #7 Posted 29 July 2022 - 11:36 PM

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I echo what CorvusCorvax echo'd above.

CorvusCorvax #8 Posted 30 July 2022 - 12:17 AM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 29 July 2022 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

I don't think it's the guns...it's the overall mobility characteristics that make those guns difficult to use...going too fast relative to the target means you barely have any time on target with that short ranged shotgun, and the plane has to stay fast...and making adjustments is a hopeless endeavor with the very heavy control that has bad response.

...which means that you have to alter your flying to get the guns to work.  And we're still talking about the guns.

Getting the guns on-target, and keeping the guns on-target, is a bit of a challenge.  But once you have it dialed in, you're the king of the sky.

At one time, the Me-262 was my most-played plane.  But the Do-335 took that spot over until the stealth nerf made the Arrow merely normal.  Now the B&V P.203 is my go-to at T8.  Yes, the P-82 and F-82 are fun, and the XP-58 can really get it done, but the raw speed and altitude of the Swallow makes it so tempting to fly.  I need to fly it some more, and more than that, grind my F2P account so that I can get it in my hangar.  I don't even have my Me-410 specced yet.

 


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Flushmaster #9 Posted 30 July 2022 - 04:44 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 29 July 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

If i wanted to play easy mode i would play the spitfire and yak 30 line

When I first got it I was not very good in the 262, only winning about 40% of my games in it. It was my first tier 8 plane. Not long ago I went back to it after learning a lot about how to properly fly a high tier fast heavy fighter. The difference between the way I fly now versus how I did back then is evident in how I now tend to win about 60-70% of my battles with that same plane. It is not an easy, noob friendly plane but if you do know what you're doing then it's a straight up powerhouse. 

View Postpyantoryng, on 29 July 2022 - 03:19 PM, said:

 

I don't think it's the guns...it's the overall mobility characteristics that make those guns difficult to use...going too fast relative to the target means you barely have any time on target with that short ranged shotgun, and the plane has to stay fast...and making adjustments is a hopeless endeavor with the very heavy control that has bad response.

The guns are part of it. As is the need to maintain speed. I'm pretty sure the initial problem for me, at least, was the mental disconnect between the relatively slow velocity of the rounds compared to the high speed of the plane and the high angular velocity that is common in situations where you're firing those guns. I had the damnedest time figuring out how to properly lead my shots. Add in the utmost importance of just not slowing down, including most sharp turns, and it's difficult for a noob to handle. But once you get a solid grasp of how to properly fly it you can be nigh untouchable if you're top tier, zooming around and blasting the daylights out of other planes, and still very competitive even from low tier. 



neverqwit #10 Posted 30 July 2022 - 06:30 AM

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If you are a good pilot then ANY plane is a powerhouse. That is what i get from this topic.

Reitousair #11 Posted 30 July 2022 - 07:01 AM

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Me 262 is on the lower end of the tier list when it comes to tier 8 HF's. But that's not because the Me 262 is bad or underpowered, far from it, it's just that tier 8 has so many fantastic HF's that the Me 262 becomes more situational in comparison. I would still much rather take an Me 262 over most tier 8 LF/MRF's if I really wanted to get stuff done. In fact when excluding premium planes there aren't many tech tree planes I would pick over it.

 

Bear in mind Me 262 is the second fastest tier 8 plane, only beaten by the J8M. It also gets R4M rockets to at the very least trade in any head-on engagement it finds itself in. Its main problem is just being finicky to use. As mentioned prior it's a plane that flies extremely fast, has stiff controls, little gun range, and low muzzle velocity. Even for experienced pilots this combination can cause problems due to WoWp's weird lag compensation system. It could probably do with a small controllability buff, if anything

 

Still, on NA we have a more speed-focused meta; your plane needs to be able to get around fast and kill fast (which often in turn means cap fast.) Me 262 fits both of these criteria quite well and with a lot of practice/kit, is a very apt plane at affecting the flow of battle. XF5U could use some buffing, though not too much or else we end up with the Memecake of old again.


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pyantoryng #12 Posted 30 July 2022 - 12:11 PM

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View PostFlushmaster, on 30 July 2022 - 11:44 AM, said:

When I first got it I was not very good in the 262, only winning about 40% of my games in it. It was my first tier 8 plane. Not long ago I went back to it after learning a lot about how to properly fly a high tier fast heavy fighter. The difference between the way I fly now versus how I did back then is evident in how I now tend to win about 60-70% of my battles with that same plane. It is not an easy, noob friendly plane but if you do know what you're doing then it's a straight up powerhouse. 

The guns are part of it. As is the need to maintain speed. I'm pretty sure the initial problem for me, at least, was the mental disconnect between the relatively slow velocity of the rounds compared to the high speed of the plane and the high angular velocity that is common in situations where you're firing those guns. I had the damnedest time figuring out how to properly lead my shots. Add in the utmost importance of just not slowing down, including most sharp turns, and it's difficult for a noob to handle. But once you get a solid grasp of how to properly fly it you can be nigh untouchable if you're top tier, zooming around and blasting the daylights out of other planes, and still very competitive even from low tier. 

 

Didn't velocity become somewhat unified after the weapon rework? Before that, yeah. The MK 108 pretty much had the worst velocity among the 30mm caliber, and the MG 213/30 didn't fare so good in that front, either. That was one of the thing that give the J7W an advantage - high velocity, highly damaging 30mms.



RC30m1 #13 Posted 30 July 2022 - 01:01 PM

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To make the 262 work, you have to focus on it's capabilities...even non-spec.

 

I found that setting it up to turn with marksman 2 was the best start. Then add aerodynamics and aerobatics.

 

It was hard for me, and still is, to keep the dogfight mentality away from it. Focus on bomber squadrons, and when possible, take a few glancing blows at enemy planes then F4 that plane.

 

Take advantage of your bots to assist in nearby enemy planes that pose a threat.

 

I try to get a few good shots on a heavy, then leave and come back with some distance between us. When an enemy turns head on, right before they straighten out, launch a salvo of rockets.

 

The 262 is very capable and can turn the game, but if you have another human or humans on your team, hopefully they can work with you and everyone can capitalize on each other's strenghts.

 

It is frustrating at times when your 262 is taking out heavies, and a spit or other turn fighter is leaving low-altitude enemy planes alone near the surface of the sector....one high, one low, you can flip a sector quick.


Edited by RC30m1, 30 July 2022 - 01:02 PM.


devi1dog #14 Posted 31 July 2022 - 05:05 PM

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Practice practice practice and learn

Blizofoz45 #15 Posted 16 August 2022 - 01:46 PM

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Loiter around the edge of a contested sector at about 9,000 feet.

 

Get a look at the enemy aircraft and pick a target.

 

Dive and don't try to finish your target in one pass. Even if you just tear a chunk off their hitpoints, hit the boost nose up to regain altitude.

 

And that's it. Don't let yourself get lured into turning fights. 

 

Get Marksman 5 and use mounted equipment to increase range and accuracy. 
 

Always remember a heavy can track a target at long range, its when targets get close that you won't have the yaw needed to keep guns on them when they inevitably start circling.

 

 

 

 



desert786 #16 Posted 16 August 2022 - 08:30 PM

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accuracy is a must, if your not good with the 262 guns yet. stay high and hunt bombers and HF's. till u get a decent feel. i'd stay away from diving on GAA unless u have a lot of speed and boost reserve. the 262 is very fast. u can pretty much run away from everything. also keep an eye out for opportunities. if a LF or MR starts stalling out near u. they EZ pickings.

 

stay fast stay high and keep the cap pressure up.

 

 

I ran long guns on the 262 for a long time, but i found it doesn't really give u enough daka to kill stuff u would be with gas operated action(GOA). so i switched. another thing about GOA, since u shooting more, u have a greater chance to hit. but gun slot is more a personal preference kinda thing, other than bolt carrier. your just wrong if u pick bolt carrier(very specific planes excluded) or if bomber escort mode is up. bolt carrier on any of the german HF's mulch bomber formations. but thats only during special events, so u pretty much never need bolt carriers in randoms on a HF.

 

 

 

NA servers are pretty trash hig reg can be very bad, specially if u bottom tier. WOWP is the only WeeGee game where the game itself [edited]u for being bottom tier.



_Panzerkunst_ #17 Posted 26 August 2022 - 08:54 PM

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Before they fixed the Aerodynamics Expert skill (40% now instead of 100%), my fully specced 262 would cruise at 824kph and max speed at 1000kph. It could pull against anything, even Tier 9 Heavies because there was only a 175kph difference from cruise to Max speed. Now it cruises at around 760kph with slower accel. I can't pull away from J8M's & Ho 229's. P-51H can even stay on my tail after a merge and spray enough .50 cals to catch me on fire...

 

It has def been brought down to Earth but if nothing is directly engaging you, like Rei said, you can do everything you need to do as far as capping. Like Desert said, if you are engaged you pretty much need full boost avail to get out of danger whereas before you didn't. 

 

A lot of ppl talk about the 30mm's low velocity but I disagree, it's the aiming and use of rudder/pitch up. As Rei explained to me one time, he can fly with fully manual controls during a dogfight and only use the mouse to finely aim when firing. At <500m it doesn't matter too much about the velocity, esp. with bombers, GA, or other Heavies. Only twirling LF's will really give the 262 issues, but you shouldn't be fighting LFs too much anyway, you have bigger fish to fry. 

 

Aiming at the cockpit, being above your opponent, and using pitch up to get the last ounce of lead on a target all outweigh the low velocity that most players think is a weakness. 

 

It's my fav aircraft by far because it is all or nothing, I hardly ever feel cheated while flying it and knowing that it is seen as a "difficult" aircraft to fly adds to it because it's not like I'm spamming EF-131's, XP-31, Spitfires. XP-54's, RB-17s (pre-nerf). My 2 cents. 


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Flushmaster #18 Posted 27 August 2022 - 09:00 PM

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View Post_Panzerkunst_, on 26 August 2022 - 03:54 PM, said:

Only twirling LF's will really give the 262 issues, but you shouldn't be fighting LFs too much anyway, you have bigger fish to fry. 

 

You can still take out those LFs, just don't try to twirl with them. Mark your target from a distance, at least a thousand meters out. For best results you should be coming up behind them at high speed (you should be doing everything at high speed), at most 45 degrees off of their vector. With practice you can pull off a perpendicular approach, either horizontal and level, diving straight down at them from orbit (beware the lawn dart effect if they're low), or even going straight up from under them if you have enough boost to keep your speed up. Start shooting at about 800m as you're closing too fast to worry about overheating and the extra burst or two will make sure you're leading the target correctly (this assumes GOA for max dakka). As they fly across your nose you can still bank to track them for a few extra hits before you zoom past what should be a bunch of flaming shrapnel by then because LFs are fragile and the 262's guns do 900 DPS with GOA.



_Panzerkunst_ #19 Posted 29 August 2022 - 08:39 PM

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View PostFlushmaster, on 27 August 2022 - 01:00 PM, said:

 

You can still take out those LFs, just don't try to twirl with them. Mark your target from a distance, at least a thousand meters out. For best results you should be coming up behind them at high speed (you should be doing everything at high speed), at most 45 degrees off of their vector. With practice you can pull off a perpendicular approach, either horizontal and level, diving straight down at them from orbit (beware the lawn dart effect if they're low), or even going straight up from under them if you have enough boost to keep your speed up. Start shooting at about 800m as you're closing too fast to worry about overheating and the extra burst or two will make sure you're leading the target correctly (this assumes GOA for max dakka). As they fly across your nose you can still bank to track them for a few extra hits before you zoom past what should be a bunch of flaming shrapnel by then because LFs are fragile and the 262's guns do 900 DPS with GOA.

That sounds good to me. I find it a bit easier on the deck (below 500m) because it eliminates one plane of motion they can take. Coming from a steep angle/low altitude has def left me as a lawn dart plenty of times. 

I actually crash into the ground going for ground targets more than aircraft, I def thread the needle every time because I want to make sure to destroy that ground target and not let enemy bots get it. Other aircraft I can always make another pass but I've had ground targets stolen from under my nose or have a friendly bot die and reset the cap just as I was destroying the last ground target...<o


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