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Bots plays against skilled players?..


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CorvusCorvax #21 Posted 13 May 2022 - 04:02 AM

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View PostmrrrLeopard, on 13 May 2022 - 03:35 AM, said:

Your words don`t explain this disbalance of points results of bots.

Yes, it does.

 

If the red Yak shoots down bots, the blue bots score less because they are in respawn.  The red bots score more, because they are not in respawn.  It happens all the time.

 

Your complaint about bots flying into the ground has zero value without the replay to show that it happened enough to make a difference.


Edited by CorvusCorvax, 13 May 2022 - 04:08 AM.

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CorvusCorvax #22 Posted 13 May 2022 - 04:26 AM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 02:15 AM, said:

Lol....you can't be serious, "Look at his Bots " are you blind...:facepalm:

All of his bots in a tier 10 match were held to an average 3000 points. :angry:( 3 of his bots never reached 3000 points, & not 1 with any chevrons )

Now lets look at the other side, Look at those Bots " they ALL were dialed in at 5000 to 6000 points.:ohmy: & ( 7 ) bots with chevrons.

So unless your blind or are just ignoring the obvious, their was a big difference in (11 )- 3000 point bots vs  (11 ) - 5000 to 6000 point bots.

By purposely mismatching those 22 bots they did in fact set up a battle to predetermine the outcome of the battle.

Hell, he was in a tier 10 Gaa, with 4 chevrons and a final score of 17000,:playing: the other player scored 10K with 2 chevrons.:facepalm:

The win should have clearly been his, but the Matchmaker before the battle begun decided differently by controlling the differences in the bots. :honoring:

None of the "thinkers" that claim this nonsense have shown any proof of it.

 

Differences in bot scores can be easily explained by things other than deliberate programming.  Until someone can show the code that proves this deliberate programming, they are just lying.  

 

While I was on my Bf-109 line grind, I had a battle where the bot score mismatch was just like this.  We won, and I got second place in a 1v1 battle, top tier.  My bots did great - because I got 14 assists.  I could not, for the life of me, finish a plane off.  You don't get much PP for assists.  But my bots got the kills and scored the points.  The bots on both teams were the same, but mine had the advantage of fighting planes with 80% of their HP knocked off, crits to engine and tail, pilot injured - and I was able to tell the bots where to go and do.

 

I got a bad score, but my activities actively helped win the battle.  The red bots had the misfortune of not having an active human helper, but that human got a lot of personal points.  I helped my bots and won.  The final PP of my bots reflected the help I gave.

 

If people would pay attention, they would actually see this result fairly often, and would stop putting forth idiotic, unproven allegations.


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SenatorTH #23 Posted 13 May 2022 - 04:57 AM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 12 May 2022 - 07:37 PM, said:

English isn't your first language is it?

He's playing russian version game client (see those soviet pilots named?), so... His attitude confirms that :D

And there's totally different playstyle on ru server, based not so much on tactics but pure personal points. Most of them have no clue about sectors priorities nor bots patterns nor anything. Point'n'shoot, point'n'shoot, you're golden.



Captain_Underpants53 #24 Posted 13 May 2022 - 05:10 AM

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I don't care if you call it predetermined, predestination, or Divine Intervention.  I have lost too many Hero of the Skies battles against all bot teams to not think that there are some battles you just will not win. 

 

WG's way of saying, 'Yer winnin' too much.'


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Trauglodyte #25 Posted 13 May 2022 - 05:19 AM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 01:28 AM, said:

That is a perfect example of a predetermined outcome already dialed in before the battle even begun.

You came in with a Ground attack plane vs his fighter.

All your bots were dialed in to stay in the 3000-point range.

His bots averaged in the 5000 -point range.

So, yea you were at a disadvantage (lousy bots) due to MM trying to balance the battle of a ...Gaa. vs a fighter.

It was you alone vs him & his better bots.... bottom line...you got screwed. :B

 

There is no such thing, as predetermined wins/losses.  It is easy, to explain why the OP lost:

 

- GAA, like bombers, are cap pressers.  They offer zero impact, against the enemy team outside of random point defense damage and cheeky counter-GAA kills.

 

We don't know on what map this game took place.  That is a big deal because some maps absolutely screw bots - the Norwegian mountain map is especially bad, against bot GAA.  All of that is regardless to the point because GAA are wasted spaces between zones.  Since the OP can't take out the opponents, they're free to do as they please.  The opponent, on the other hand, was in a Yak-30 obliterating the red bots.  Killing bots means that your team's bots go uncontested.  This isn't rocket science.  Each side gets the same bots.  How those bot perform comes down to:

 

  1. How you interact with them (OP didn't)
  2. How they're programmed to perform, based upon the map and spawn location

 

This sucks, for the OP.  But, there isn't any sympathy to be given because they chose to hop in a GAA.  You know what you're getting and you know the hindrances.  It is exactly what it is.  Don't like it?  Never play a GAA, without being in a flight.  Otherwise, you're always going to be a slave, to the MMer.



Whistling_Death_ #26 Posted 13 May 2022 - 08:53 AM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 01:28 AM, said:

That is a perfect example of a predetermined outcome already dialed in before the battle even begun.

You came in with a Ground attack plane vs his fighter.

All your bots were dialed in to stay in the 3000-point range.

His bots averaged in the 5000 -point range.

So, yea you were at a disadvantage (lousy bots) due to MM trying to balance the battle of a ...Gaa. vs a fighter.

It was you alone vs him & his better bots.... bottom line...you got screwed. :B

 

 

It's not predetermined.  That would be fraud, which is illegal and no company is going to risk the substantial financial penalties for that, as well as potential criminal prosecution.  There would be no reason to predetermine anything and every reason not to.

 

I won 19 out of 26 battles yesterday and it was not predetermined. 



bud_tugly #27 Posted 13 May 2022 - 09:35 AM

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It could be predetermined just look at twitter and thier setup.Maybe Elon will buy WG.

Reminds me of an old Lynyrd Skynyrd song "theres things going on that you dont know"

I have had battles where i knew 30 seconds into the game that my team was going to lose.

There was nothing I could do nor my team for the win.If it wasnt predeterimed it sure felt like it was.

Another old saying comes to mind , 'If it walks like a duck ,smells like a duck and looks like a duck,its a duck!"

My personal belief is that something is going on with the MM. I have been wrong many times in my life tho.


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Master_Cylinder #28 Posted 13 May 2022 - 11:06 AM

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View PostmrrrLeopard, on 13 May 2022 - 12:55 AM, said:

I lost.

balancer.jpg

 

Just look at the pilots points of both sides!..

And its not a first time!

Hey that is to be expected when you go up against a player that is in the Flying Knights clan, they all cheat.  They were all taught by the best cheater in the game who will go unnamed.  Just get use to it that is the way it goes,

 

He He He!!!!

 

... and if you don't believe me about FKers cheating just ask Underpants he use to be one.



Master_Cylinder #29 Posted 13 May 2022 - 11:41 AM

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okay one the serious side...

 

The name of the game is Cap & Hold, the "Team" that does that will always win.  The issue is bots and people do not play as a team. 

 

A basic battle of 3 sectors is a total of 400 points to win.  You get 3 points towards that 400 points every 5 seconds so 400 divided by 3 points every 5 seconds is 222 seconds or 3.7 sector-minutes.  So if you and your team cap & hold 1 sector it will take you 3.7 mins to get to 400 where the other team if they get the other two sectors only have to do that for half the time.  Does not matter how many planes you shoot down or ground targets you take out or PPs and XP you get the one that has the most sectors for the longest period of time will win.

 

Man am I smart!!!!!

 

...just like Underpants



Captain_Underpants53 #30 Posted 13 May 2022 - 01:02 PM

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View PostMaster_Cylinder, on 13 May 2022 - 06:41 AM, said:

okay one the serious side...

 

The name of the game is Cap & Hold, the "Team" that does that will always win.  The issue is bots and people do not play as a team. 

 

A basic battle of 3 sectors is a total of 400 points to win.  You get 3 points towards that 400 points every 5 seconds so 400 divided by 3 points every 5 seconds is 222 seconds or 3.7 sector-minutes.  So if you and your team cap & hold 1 sector it will take you 3.7 mins to get to 400 where the other team if they get the other two sectors only have to do that for half the time.  Does not matter how many planes you shoot down or ground targets you take out or PPs and XP you get the one that has the most sectors for the longest period of time will win.

 

Man am I smart!!!!!

 

...just like Underpants

Gorsh!  Aint no one never said thet about me before (or you either).

 

:trollface:

 

However, much as I hate to say it, you are absolutely right about how to win.  I hate it when you are right!

 


:rolleyes:


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 13 May 2022 - 01:04 PM.

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cobra_marksman #31 Posted 13 May 2022 - 02:01 PM

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View PostWhistling_Death_, on 13 May 2022 - 03:53 AM, said:

 

 

It's not predetermined.  That would be fraud, which is illegal and no company is going to risk the substantial financial penalties for that, as well as potential criminal prosecution.  There would be no reason to predetermine anything and every reason not to.

 

First of all,....it's not fraud, this is their game & they can & will run it as per their game. :bajan:Did you not read the .....Fine print " :B

So, putting 11 bot in a tier 10 battle and capping their performance to only 3000 points is predetermining their performance and the battle.

Especially when the other team bots are scoring between 5000 to 6000 points.

The simple fact, that he scored 17k with 4 chevrons and the opposing players only scored 10k with only 2 chevrons.

Clearly shows that the bots on the fighter side, :playing:were clearly winning the battle for him.

So when i use the word ..." predetermined " :kamikaze:, the reference is to the matchmaker of the game.

By simply mismatching the bots on both sides,:rolleyes: :angry: this does indirectly predetermined the outcome of the battle.

It's not rocket science, nor hard to see,....just take off your blinders and you'll be able to see the obvious.....( at times ).

This battle was tilted, against the ground attack plane. right from the start, by the differences in the BOTS.

Have over 13k battles so i do also enjoy playing this game, but some of these battles tend to be one sided right from the starting bell.:honoring:


Edited by cobra_marksman, 13 May 2022 - 05:20 PM.


CorvusCorvax #32 Posted 13 May 2022 - 06:46 PM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 02:01 PM, said:

First of all,....it's not fraud, this is their game & they can & will run it as per their game.:bajan:Did you not read the .....Fine print " :B

So, putting 11 bot in a tier 10 battle and capping their performance to only 3000 points is predetermining their performance and the battle.

Especially when the other team bots are scoring between 5000 to 6000 points.

The simple fact, that he scored 17k with 4 chevrons and the opposing players only scored 10k with only 2 chevrons.

Clearly shows that the bots on the fighter side, :playing:were clearly winning the battle for him.

So when i use the word ..." predetermined " :kamikaze:, the reference is to the matchmaker of the game.

By simply mismatching the bots on both sides,:rolleyes: :angry: this does indirectly predetermined the outcome of the battle.

It's not rocket science, nor hard to see,....just take off your blinders and you'll be able to see the obvious.....( at times ).

This battle was tilted, against the ground attack plane. right from the start, by the differences in the BOTS.

Have over 13k battles so i do also enjoy playing this game, but some of these battles tend to be one sided right from the starting bell.:honoring:

No, the bots are NOT mismatched.   They all have exactly the same skill level - Veteran.  There is no points cap, that's just a lie.


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cobra_marksman #33 Posted 13 May 2022 - 08:14 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 13 May 2022 - 01:46 PM, said:

No, the bots are NOT mismatched.   They all have exactly the same skill level - Veteran.  There is no points cap, that's just a lie.

Oh really...........did you even look at all of his tier 10 veteran bots, they all were in the 3000 range?

Did you look at his opponent's veteran bots? .....they were all in the 5000 to 6000 range.

So...plz. explain,....." As To Why "..... ? .....were the ga.'s  Veteran bots blind & drunk at the time of battle.

Or lets see...being he was doing so well capping bases ( 17,000 pp & 4 chevrons )...that his Veteran bots had nothing to do & they notice that he didn't need any help.

So they just flew around the map doing ....... Recon Duty.:B

So enlighten us,....as to why the big difference of ....all Bots on Both sides....

Short answer. :... might just be ( and i said might ).....:bajan: be ...Game Control.....( maybe I'll go back and read the fine print again. ):bajan:

 



CorvusCorvax #34 Posted 13 May 2022 - 08:38 PM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 08:14 PM, said:

Oh really...........did you even look atall of his tier 10 veteran bots, they all were in the 3000 range?

Did you look at his opponent's veteran bots? .....they were all in the 5000 to 6000 range.

So...plz. explain,....." As To Why "..... ? .....were the ga.'s  Veteran bots blind & drunk at the time of battle.

Or lets see...being he was doing so well capping bases ( 17,000 pp & 4 chevrons )...that his Veteran bots had nothing to do & they notice that he didn't need any help.

So they just flew around the map doing ....... Recon Duty.:B

So enlighten us,....as to why the big difference of ....all Bots on Both sides....

Short answer. :... might just be ( and i said might ).....:bajan: be ...Game Control.....( maybe I'll go back and read the fine print again. ):bajan:

 

It's already been explained how this happens without the need for tinfoilhattery.  I can't understand it for you, LOL.

 

Go back and read all the regular print before lying about stuff that you can't even begin to show evidence for, much less prove.


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Corsair4790805 #35 Posted 13 May 2022 - 09:44 PM

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I think it's worth noting that the OP didn't tell anyone the score of the battle.   Was it a blowout or a close one (based on the human PP, I'd say it was NOT a blow out).

 

I do not subscribe to the point-limiting theory.

 

There are 24 individual actors on the map.   The map has its own influence on strategy, and while in this case 22 of the individual actors are bots who have programming they follow, they will also have interactions with human players and other bots that may interrupt or prevent the action they are trying to take.   If humans are issuing bot commands, that will further impact what happens (either positively or negatively).   Were blue's bots able to complete any of their assigned (programmed or issued by humans) objectives?  I'd say not based on the points score for the bots.

 

I would bet that there are multiple reasons OP lost the battle - that have NOTHING to do with bots being point capped.  This doesn't mean OP is a bad player - just that in this game he got outplayed.  Happens to us all.

 

If we were able to watch the replay, or see the stats for each bot on both sides after the game, it'd disprove the points cap limit.   I've done this on some games were I've wondered how we/I lost, and its always been informative and educational.

 

I have yet to be in a battle where I've found anything that proves there are uber bots or any sort of point capping at work.   It comes down to the sum of the 24 individual actors actions - with more weight on the humans than the bots, because the humans aren't bound by the confines of the bot's programming.

 

 

 



CorvusCorvax #36 Posted 13 May 2022 - 10:32 PM

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View PostCorsair4790805, on 13 May 2022 - 09:44 PM, said:

I think it's worth noting that the OP didn't tell anyone the score of the battle.   Was it a blowout or a close one (based on the human PP, I'd say it was NOT a blow out).

 

I do not subscribe to the point-limiting theory.

 

There are 24 individual actors on the map.   The map has its own influence on strategy, and while in this case 22 of the individual actors are bots who have programming they follow, they will also have interactions with human players and other bots that may interrupt or prevent the action they are trying to take.   If humans are issuing bot commands, that will further impact what happens (either positively or negatively).   Were blue's bots able to complete any of their assigned (programmed or issued by humans) objectives?  I'd say not based on the points score for the bots.

 

I would bet that there are multiple reasons OP lost the battle - that have NOTHING to do with bots being point capped.  This doesn't mean OP is a bad player - just that in this game he got outplayed.  Happens to us all.

 

If we were able to watch the replay, or see the stats for each bot on both sides after the game, it'd disprove the points cap limit.   I've done this on some games were I've wondered how we/I lost, and its always been informative and educational.

 

I have yet to be in a battle where I've found anything that proves there are uber bots or any sort of point capping at work.   It comes down to the sum of the 24 individual actors actions - with more weight on the humans than the bots, because the humans aren't bound by the confines of the bot's programming.

 

 

 

There are a couple of problems with this.

 

1.)  The above analysis does not satisfy the emotional need of folks to shift blame.  Our poisonous snake seems to want the wrongs to be WGs.  No amount of facts, data, reasoning, or logic will satisfy that emotional need.

 

2.)  Too many words to read.  Obviously, some folks prefer not to read the written word unless it is validation for their existing feelings (as related to point 1, above.)

 

Hey, sometimes you pick the wrong plane for the map and opposition assigned by the MM.  Sometimes you pick exactly the right one.  You just never know when you might fly the FW-190D to a top-of-team victory, right?  And the very next battle get crushed on the scoreboard because the map and team composition were both unfavorable to a win.

 

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again.  Learn what you did right, and what you did wrong, and git gud-er.


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Corsair4790805 #37 Posted 13 May 2022 - 10:36 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 13 May 2022 - 02:32 PM, said:

There are a couple of problems with this.

 

1.)  The above analysis does not satisfy the emotional need of folks to shift blame.  Our poisonous snake seems to want the wrongs to be WGs.  No amount of facts, data, reasoning, or logic will satisfy that emotional need.

 

2.)  Too many words to read.  Obviously, some folks prefer not to read the written word unless it is validation for their existing feelings (as related to point 1, above.)

 

Hey, sometimes you pick the wrong plane for the map and opposition assigned by the MM.  Sometimes you pick exactly the right one.  You just never know when you might fly the FW-190D to a top-of-team victory, right?  And the very next battle get crushed on the scoreboard because the map and team composition were both unfavorable to a win.

 

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again.  Learn what you did right, and what you did wrong, and git gud-er.

 

One of my character flaws is the inability to say more with less - but I'm working on it.   Then again, I've been working on it for over half a century, so.....LOL

 

"Learn what you did right, and what you did wrong, and git gud-er."   <--- This is, to me, the key to this game.  I've personally learned a lot from my many failures.....not that I'm able to apply them consistently.



cobra_marksman #38 Posted 13 May 2022 - 11:14 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 13 May 2022 - 03:38 PM, said:

 

Go back and read all the regular print before lying about stuff that you can't even begin to show evidence for, much less prove.

Since you once again chose the low road ......in our conversation, allow me to respond.

Whenever anyone ask you for Proof of what you are spewing out, you always seem to flip the conversation to...."  you show me the proof "

So, allow me to ask......" Where the Beef "? in any (if not all) of your theories of the game.

You seem to put out your theories based on stuff that you yourself tend to make up with no proof, that they in fact do exist.

Anyway, i'm done here, you never have, nor you never will back up your so-called theories ....:honoring:

( Tend to enjoy these post, you seem to get all worked up, attacking anything and everything that i put up...lol) maybe i should just call you my divorce wife. :P

 

 


Edited by cobra_marksman, 14 May 2022 - 12:05 AM.


SenatorTH #39 Posted 14 May 2022 - 01:15 AM

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View PostMaster_Cylinder, on 13 May 2022 - 03:41 AM, said:

 

 You get 3 points towards that 400 points every 5 seconds so 400 divided by 3 points every 5 seconds is 222 seconds or 3.7 sector-minutes.

 

Man am I smart!!!!!

 

Yeah, you're the smart, LOL.

Not so smart would calculate it a bit different way and get the result of 666s which is equal to 11 minutes. And that would be right number :D


Edited by SenatorTH, 14 May 2022 - 01:26 AM.


CorvusCorvax #40 Posted 14 May 2022 - 01:54 AM

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View PostCorsair4790805, on 13 May 2022 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

One of my character flaws is the inability to say more with less - but I'm working on it.   Then again, I've been working on it for over half a century, so.....LOL

 

"Learn what you did right, and what you did wrong, and git gud-er."   <--- This is, to me, the key to this game.  I've personally learned a lot from my many failures.....not that I'm able to apply them consistently.

 

Don't get me wrong - I felt that your analysis was succinct and just about as short as it could have been.  It is that when others do not get the validation they seek, they stop reading.  You made an attempt at reason. It is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.

 

View Postcobra_marksman, on 13 May 2022 - 11:14 PM, said:

[blather]

 

 

It has been my observation that the intellectually-deficient seem to always use the toddler defense - "I know you are, but what am I?"  It's pathetic, and sad.

Yes, indeed - one of us is certainly worked up.  One of us uses all-caps, and italics and emojis sprinkled liberally.  The other, doesn't.  The comparison is stark.


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