47 replies to this topic

[Flushmaster]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 11:19 AM, said:

Well, the term "user experience may vary" certainly does not make my claim "baseless and uniformed". Boosters have a tremendous effect on gameplay. They increase free xp, among other things, which makes it faster to gain skills for pilots. The more skills the pilot has, the better he does, which is why they have skills in the first place. Never heard anyone say "hey, I wanna keep this pilot/gunner as skillfree as possible because skills have no effect on gameplay and they just take up extra space in the airplane." Nope, never heard that. Not once.

If you're saying "user experience may vary" to mean "different users will have different experiences" you've already defined the variable. The one thing that is different in those varied experiences is the user. That's what makes the difference. 

 

And since you're clearly nitpicking terminology to try to make your absolutely unscientific approach sound more valid, I will be more accurate to say boosters have no direct, immediate, or active effect on gameplay. The effects of boosters on pilot XP and skill points is applied after the game is over. Any and all effects on future gameplay are coincidental and have absolutely nothing to do with you losing those ten games in a row. You lost those games because the other team achieved the victory conditions before yours did and boosters have absolutely zero effect on how that occurs. Nobody in their right mind is going to suggest that MM doesn't result in inconsistent and often lopsided matches, largely due to not factoring in player skill and specialization (which does provide a quantifiable advantage), and bots are random and inconsistent as well but that inconsistency balances itself out in the long run by working in your favor as often as it does against you. If you're losing ten games in a row you need to look at the single constant present in those ten games that affects gameplay. This is what the technical support profession commonly calls a PEBKAC error. 

 

Boosters do not effect how any given game is actually played. They do not make your plane faster, slower, or more or less maneuverable. They do not make your guns more or less accurate. They do not factor into matchmaking because the MM is so lazily and minimally programmed that it doesn't factor in things like player stats or specialization and they sure as hell aren't adding code to alter the formula to put you on low tier because you have an XP or credit booster active. 

 

What you are doing is saying that something has to be happening for you to lose. PEBKAC. Maybe you're distracted by something else, like watching a TV show on another screen, or someone talking to you. Maybe you're tired and less observant than otherwise, or irritated and making rash decisions without thinking them through. Anything beyond T3 in this game is more complex than "point plane at enemy and shoot" and if you try to fly T6 like that you're going to get smoked, especially when against human players who actually think about what they're doing. 

 

You're looking for excuses to blame for losses because you're unwilling to admit that you just played poorly. WG is not out to get you by sneaking in ways to sabotage you. They don't care about you as an individual enough to do that. Get over yourself and quit whining.

[_Bronze_]

~

Edited by _Bronze_, 12 May 2022 - 05:40 PM.

[_Bronze_]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 12:25 PM, said:

Not sure it touched a nerve so much as I felt sort of bad leaving DRACS. But, the fact is that aside from one or two guys, DRACS have ceased to exist in this game. That is why I moved on. I think they only let me join in the first place because they felt sorry for me lol. Great players all, though. The best I've seen, that's for sure. It's sort of a shame they aren't around anymore.

If we were clanmates I am sure we were good. I liked and admired nearly every single DRAC I ever met. I'm sure I got along with you, but I have no idea if this is a new name for you or not, because Bronze is not ringing a bell. That is probably entirely due to age and my short/long term memory loss lol. Truly, I have trouble remembering what I did last Friday, let alone all the DRACS I haven't seen for ages. And just to put a fine point on it, DRACS are the best there ever was or is likely to be. I still think of them as legendary.

But, nice to see you. Wish I knew if this is your regular name, because for the life of me I cannot remember a "Bronze". Remember some guy names "something Nue"? Or "Shwedder", or "Bandit", or even "Crayola"? Those dudes kicked  a$%.

 

I forget you weren't around early 2.duh https://worldofwarplanes.com/community/players/1001015880-/

https://worldofwarplanes.com/community/players/1041524286-cundalini_/
https://worldofwarplanes.com/community/players/1039621130-Mudguts_/

https://worldofwarplanes.com/community/players/1041962823-_Bronze_/
 

there's a pattern here with my alts....

Edited by _Bronze_, 12 May 2022 - 05:41 PM.

[vuuduu]

Flushmaster, on 12 May 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

If you're saying "user experience may vary" to mean "different users will have different experiences" you've already defined the variable. The one thing that is different in those varied experiences is the user. That's what makes the difference. 

 

And since you're clearly nitpicking terminology to try to make your absolutely unscientific approach sound more valid, I will be more accurate to say boosters have no direct, immediate, or active effect on gameplay. The effects of boosters on pilot XP and skill points is applied after the game is over. Any and all effects on future gameplay are coincidental and have absolutely nothing to do with you losing those ten games in a row. You lost those games because the other team achieved the victory conditions before yours did and boosters have absolutely zero effect on how that occurs. Nobody in their right mind is going to suggest that MM doesn't result in inconsistent and often lopsided matches, largely due to not factoring in player skill and specialization (which does provide a quantifiable advantage), and bots are random and inconsistent as well but that inconsistency balances itself out in the long run by working in your favor as often as it does against you. If you're losing ten games in a row you need to look at the single constant present in those ten games that affects gameplay. This is what the technical support profession commonly calls a PEBKAC error. 

 

Boosters do not effect how any given game is actually played. They do not make your plane faster, slower, or more or less maneuverable. They do not make your guns more or less accurate. They do not factor into matchmaking because the MM is so lazily and minimally programmed that it doesn't factor in things like player stats or specialization and they sure as hell aren't adding code to alter the formula to put you on low tier because you have an XP or credit booster active. 

 

What you are doing is saying that something has to be happening for you to lose. PEBKAC. Maybe you're distracted by something else, like watching a TV show on another screen, or someone talking to you. Maybe you're tired and less observant than otherwise, or irritated and making rash decisions without thinking them through. Anything beyond T3 in this game is more complex than "point plane at enemy and shoot" and if you try to fly T6 like that you're going to get smoked, especially when against human players who actually think about what they're doing. 

 

You're looking for excuses to blame for losses because you're unwilling to admit that you just played poorly. WG is not out to get you by sneaking in ways to sabotage you. They don't care about you as an individual enough to do that. Get over yourself and quit whining.

Man, you've got yer panties in quite a bunch, huh? It's barely known to me guys like you with such deep wells of nastiness that just baffle me in this game. I'm not nitpicking anything. Did you truly think I was claiming to have done some sort of "scientific research"? Sheeeesh. Well, here's a thought: you keep your opinion, and I'll keep mine. If you'd bothered to note before making everything all personal, my original post said "change my mind". It didn't say "here's you opportunity to launch personal attacks on someone you don't and never will know". And that's sort of a shame too, since I have seen you in game, and consider you to be at least a moderately good player.

But, I 'spose that's the way it is sometimes.

[vuuduu]

In any event, thank you to those who took the time to address the actual intent of my original post. I don't know that my mind's been changed, but, there have been things suggested to think about.

Time to go back to lurking the forum for a few years.

 

[TeamTerrence]

 

Sorry.....don't use boosters, mods, premium ammo, or any other junk

 

Friends with dracs, lived with one, 89% win/rate......... it all makes sense

[vuuduu]

TeamTerrence, on 12 May 2022 - 02:06 PM, said:

 

Sorry.....don't use boosters, mods, premium ammo, or any other junk

 

Friends with dracs, lived with one, 89% win/rate......... it all makes sense

Hey there Terrence. Nice to see you. Been a long time. Hope all is well.

[Flushmaster]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 12:44 PM, said:

 If you'd bothered to note before making everything all personal, my original post said "change my mind". It didn't say "here's you opportunity to launch personal attacks on someone you don't and never will know". And that's sort of a shame too, since I have seen you in game, and consider you to be at least a moderately good player.

But, I 'spose that's the way it is sometimes.

 

You start a forum thread making an absurd statement that anybody who actually thinks about it for ten seconds can figure out is completely ridiculous. There is nothing about boosters that impacts whether you win or lose. There is no rational reason to even consider it. That's like saying you've been in three car crashes during your lifetime and were wearing socks each time, so socks must cause car crashes. I'm not exaggerating, that statement makes every bit as much sense as your entire premise for this thread. Your "opinion" not only fails to contribute anything meaningful to anything, but makes you look like an idiot and I find the willful perpetuation of obviously dumb ideas to be offensive. 

 

I saw you in a game today. You lost because you, in a downtiered GAA, had the high score on your team with exactly one GT destroyed and no sector captures. My uptiered GAA teammate scored even less than you and I don't even know what your uptiered teammate was doing but they sure were contributing to your loss by inactivity because they scored under 1k and dropped. I won because I dropped my bombs on the near plant so my team could capture it quicker then went to the central military base and started shooting down airplanes to capture it. By that point my team had a control advantage and you, personally, made almost zero quantifiable contribution to change that while I defended sectors my team controlled to maintain the lead. So you lost because you flew poorly and your team flew worse. Boosters had nothing to do with that. 

[Captain_Underpants53]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 11:28 AM, said:

It would be really interesting to see what your results are. Weren't you also gonna release some results you had about some other research you recently did? Low tier/high tier maybe it was.

Yes and I did release the results of a week of flying.  I was amazed to find that I was high tier much more often than low tier.  NOT my normal experience.

[vuuduu]

Flushmaster, on 12 May 2022 - 03:23 PM, said:

 

You start a forum thread making an absurd statement that anybody who actually thinks about it for ten seconds can figure out is completely ridiculous. There is nothing about boosters that impacts whether you win or lose. There is no rational reason to even consider it. That's like saying you've been in three car crashes during your lifetime and were wearing socks each time, so socks must cause car crashes. I'm not exaggerating, that statement makes every bit as much sense as your entire premise for this thread. Your "opinion" not only fails to contribute anything meaningful to anything, but makes you look like an idiot and I find the willful perpetuation of obviously dumb ideas to be offensive. 

 

I saw you in a game today. You lost because you, in a downtiered GAA, had the high score on your team with exactly one GT destroyed and no sector captures. My uptiered GAA teammate scored even less than you and I don't even know what your uptiered teammate was doing but they sure were contributing to your loss by inactivity because they scored under 1k and dropped. I won because I dropped my bombs on the near plant so my team could capture it quicker then went to the central military base and started shooting down airplanes to capture it. By that point my team had a control advantage and you, personally, made almost zero quantifiable contribution to change that while I defended sectors my team controlled to maintain the lead. So you lost because you flew poorly and your team flew worse. Boosters had nothing to do with that. 

Ohhhhh, ya mean the one where ya killed me in yer XP-75 every time you saw me? Yeah, that game was lost before it started. I just played for the 1000 for not quitting the game. But to your point, there's precious little to contribute when a determined (and somewhat spiteful) human player goes after you downtiered lumbering GA whenever it's spotted. I'm quite certain you'd expect me to have Thundered that game, perhaps? I was downtier, in a GA, and was still first on our team. Not much more one can ontribue. I noticed you couldn't keep quiet in the chat either. But, hey, like I said before, you do you. After this post, don't expect further reply. Stay happy and joyfull.

[RoIand]

The biggest mistake you can make when activating a booster is wearing socks while doing so. 

Edited by RoIand, 12 May 2022 - 09:27 PM.

[Flushmaster]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 04:00 PM, said:

Ohhhhh, ya mean the one where ya killed me in yer XP-75 every time you saw me? Yeah, that game was lost before it started. I just played for the 1000 for not quitting the game. But to your point, there's precious little to contribute when a determined (and somewhat spiteful) human player goes after you downtiered lumbering GA whenever it's spotted. I'm quite certain you'd expect me to have Thundered that game, perhaps? I was downtier, in a GA, and was still first on our team. Not much more one can ontribue. I noticed you couldn't keep quiet in the chat either. But, hey, like I said before, you do you. After this post, don't expect further reply. Stay happy and joyfull.

I shot you down once. The first time I saw you, when you were attacking that military base I was also attacking. I also made a pass on you another time while defending the same sector and a bot finished you off. I was not headhunting you and I was not "spiteful." I always attack GAA and bombers when I see a chance to while flying a heavy (and I usually fly heavies). Heavy fighters are supposed to shoot down GAA and bombers. The game specifically rewards you for doing so with the aircraft class objectives that add chevrons to your grade. I won because I was flying my plane like I was supposed to. There are much better pilots who fly a lot of GAAs that I do specifically hunt because if I leave them to do what they do then I will lose the game. And those players are always harder to prevent from capping sectors even when I am actively looking for them because they're better than you are. It doesn't matter if I shoot down a GAA five times in a game if he caps a sector right before I manage it every time. You are not important enough to warrant that kind of effort on my part. 

 

Your win rate is 53% over 8k battles and the only three planes you have with a >55% record  and over 100 battles in are the P-82B, the Beaufighter, and the XP-54. The fact that you fly the most painfully OP plane in the game more than any other and barely scrape by with an overall >50% record says plenty. The Goose is about the only plane above T4 that you can actually make a positive impact for your team with mindless "point and shoot" tactics. The rest of your good records that keep you over 50% are all tier 4 or lower and mostly "point plane at target and shoot" turn and burners. In the big picture you contribute about as much to any given battle as a moderately "good" bot. You win and lose based on what other people are doing in the game regardless of what you think you're doing. 

 

I only had to attack you twice in that game because that's how many times you, flying a plane that anybody flying the plane I was in should be prioritizing as a target, appeared in a position where it was worth my time to deal with you. Granted, the game was over in just under 5 minutes so those two attacks might seem "frequent" but you also managed to get shot down another time, by a bot, while I wasn't anywhere near you in that time. You didn't do what a GAA is supposed to do, which is destroy GTs. You contributed more capture points to my team by getting shot down than you did for your own team. Again, boosters don't even factor into it. The entire reason I'm explaining all of this is to demonstrate the things you should be looking at instead of asking "am I losing because of boosters?" The answer is no, you win and lose because you are a proverbial leaf on the wind that makes no major impact on the bigger picture by itself. If you want to win more often you need to fly better and not just flit about and land wherever the win takes you. 

 

And yes, I paid attention to that match and took screens to recall how it worked out. I did that because I recognized you there and knew that it would provide ample evidence to prove my points here. We were both downtiered. Both of our human teammates were largely ineffective (yours dropped after I shot him down while taking that military base). I scored twice as many PP as you did. I significantly contributed to the capture of two important sectors then defended them while you didn't do either of those things. My team won 800-251 at 4:55. These things are all directly related. The fact that I was running three boosters at the time had nothing to do with it. If boosters had any effect on that battle it's that my previous use of them resulted in my plane performing slightly better and that's contributing to wins, not losses as your thread title asserts. 

[bud_tugly]

RoIand, on 12 May 2022 - 09:26 PM, said:

The biggest mistake you can make when activating a booster is wearing socks while doing so. 

What if they are LUCKY socks??They should counteract the curse,Right?

Or an anti-booster curse rabbits foot??

 

If one believes in vudu they can be turned into zombies.

Just because You dont hear the VOICES does'nt mean they aint REAL.

Edited by bud_tugly, 12 May 2022 - 11:24 PM.

[Flushmaster]

bud_tugly, on 12 May 2022 - 06:23 PM, said:

What if they are LUCKY socks??They should counteract the curse,Right?

Or an anti-booster curse rabbits foot??

 

If one believes in vudu they can be turned into zombies.

Just because You dont hear the VOICES does'nt mean they aint REAL.

This makes about as much sense as the premise of this thread. Actually the last part is more realistic because there's at least a slim chance somebody might be gaslighting you. Or you left the radio/tv/phone/etc on low volume and it sounds like whispers. 

Edited by Flushmaster, 12 May 2022 - 11:47 PM.

[TeamTerrence]

Flushmaster, on 12 May 2022 - 06:45 PM, said:

This makes about as much sense as the premise of this thread. Actually the last part is more realistic because there's at least a slim chance somebody might be gaslighting you. Or you left the radio/tv/phone/etc on low volume and it sounds like whispers. 

 

A little overdue for a laxative?

 

You seem really moody

[Zigfreid]

vuuduu, on 11 May 2022 - 09:43 PM, said:

That's my experience. What's yours? Change my mind.

I feel its more what plane and tier you fly more than boosters and losses.

My win/rate is 76%, with boosters bin running 80-85%, not seeing your losses.

I believe what time you play, and if you are flighted makes a big difference also.

 

[Zigfreid]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 11:25 AM, said:

Not sure it touched a nerve so much as I felt sort of bad leaving DRACS. But, the fact is that aside from one or two guys, DRACS have ceased to exist in this game. That is why I moved on. I think they only let me join in the first place because they felt sorry for me lol. Great players all, though. The best I've seen, that's for sure. It's sort of a shame they aren't around anymore.

If we were clanmates I am sure we were good. I liked and admired nearly every single DRAC I ever met. I'm sure I got along with you, but I have no idea if this is a new name for you or not, because Bronze is not ringing a bell. That is probably entirely due to age and my short/long term memory loss lol. Truly, I have trouble remembering what I did last Friday, let alone all the DRACS I haven't seen for ages. And just to put a fine point on it, DRACS are the best there ever was or is likely to be. I still think of them as legendary.

But, nice to see you. Wish I knew if this is your regular name, because for the life of me I cannot remember a "Bronze". Remember some guy names "something Nue"? Or "Shwedder", or "Bandit", or even "Crayola"? Those dudes kicked  a$%.

How about some old G/A guys like DJWhoDat, Dragos, Team Terrence, Steel Bomber, Wallarnor, Erdminger, EagerBeaverMedicanMan, Zapperguy, TheMarco, any of them ring a bell? And BoozyBear, xxxXXXxxx, EricRM, Toggle?

Edited by Zigfreid, 13 May 2022 - 12:47 AM.

[Zigfreid]

vuuduu, on 12 May 2022 - 11:44 AM, said:

Man, you've got yer panties in quite a bunch, huh? It's barely known to me guys like you with such deep wells of nastiness that just baffle me in this game. I'm not nitpicking anything. Did you truly think I was claiming to have done some sort of "scientific research"? Sheeeesh. Well, here's a thought: you keep your opinion, and I'll keep mine. If you'd bothered to note before making everything all personal, my original post said "change my mind". It didn't say "here's you opportunity to launch personal attacks on someone you don't and never will know". And that's sort of a shame too, since I have seen you in game, and consider you to be at least a moderately good player.

But, I 'spose that's the way it is sometimes.

I think you are looking at W/R to much, i think efficiency would be a better measure for you.

If flighted your W/R will go up with team work and comms, or flying lower tiers, only see you flying solo in game.

Efficiency will tell you how well you fly your plane in game by air kills, sectors flipped, or ground targets destroyed.

Efficiencys at 10% are poor, 15% are average, 20% are good, 25% are very good etc. there are pilots that have 30%

35%, 40%+ efficiency, so the question is what are they doing that you are NOT? bring your efficiency up and your 

wins and fun will go up. I see that all of your efficiency is less than 20% which makes you an average player 53% win rate

makes you average player. Vuuduu not trying to beat you up just trying to get you to look in the mirror have known you for 

over 7 years glad you came back but you are making a lot of bad decisions, hope your clan helps you a little, still a fun game.

 

[CorvusCorvax]

Zigfreid, on 13 May 2022 - 12:30 AM, said:

I feel its more what plane and tier you fly more than boosters and losses.

My win/rate is 76%, with boosters bin running 80-85%, not seeing your losses.

I believe what time you play, and if you are flighted makes a big difference also.

 

^^^This is true.

When I play boosters on a Saturday morning (Pacific Time), I don't win as often, because that seems to be the time when the good pilots are out.  When I run boosters at night, after 2100 Pacific Time, I win more.  Boosters have very little to do with anything OTHER THAN your approach to the games.  I checked out the new boosters, and noticed that they are selling for 350 gold/each.  Woof, that's a bit of an investment, but I can see where using them for crew XP would help, especially when you are working with pilots that have 12+ points, and the amount of XP to the next skill point is in the millions!

 

While I don't think Flushmaster should be so aggressive in his rebuttal, I don't have much room to criticize on that front.  I think vuuduu has a subtle change to his game approach that causes him to do things that he would not normally do, causing losses in games that he would normally win.

I remember getting owned severely by several DRACS members over the years.  Toggle, for sure.  LOL.

[vuuduu]

Zigfreid, on 12 May 2022 - 07:43 PM, said:

How about some old G/A guys like DJWhoDat, Dragos, Team Terrence, Steel Bomber, Wallarnor, Erdminger, EagerBeaverMedicanMan, Zapperguy, TheMarco, any of them ring a bell? And BoozyBear, xxxXXXxxx, EricRM, Toggle?

 Hey there. I think a good bit of what you say is actually quite accurate. We talked that one time, and I remember thinking "yeah, work on being more efficient". Those numbers have been steadily rising with most approaching what you term to be average. That is what I was aiming for when I began working on that area. Those numbers are not all "average" yet. But, I'm happy with any progress I make. Do something right, then do more of it lol. I don't flight as much as a lot of guys, for a couple of reasons. One, I don't want to make progress on someone else's back. Personally, I would rather have a 60% w/r solo than a 80% w/r flighted. I do flight, flighting can be fun if I'm feeling social, there is nothing at all wrong with flighting. I just like my progress to be my own. Second, I feel responsible to help a flightmate as much as possible, often resulting in crappy games for myself. And if something happens to a flightmate in game, I actually feel crappy about it. Call me old fashioned. Some flightmate calls helphelphelp form the other side o' the map, and I already got 3 guys on me, well, I'm gonna deal with the 3 guys first lol

And yeah, I remember nearly all those names you put up there. Great players. Lotta fun times. I wouldn't play this if it weren't still fun. I simply do not like bashing my head against a wall.

One thing I might amend from my OP is that possibly one is low tier more often when running boosters. Again, this is just my experience from my perspective. I play all the tiers when running boosters, even some planes I rarely play. I know that it surely seems as though my teams are made up of new guys (really new) and me, and three spec's on the other side lol

You've mentioned twice now about clan help. I can go and ask any question I like, and if no one knows the answer, someone finds it. There isn't an issue there. I talked with you that one time last week or so because I value your opinion and consider you "old guard" "old school" or maybe just plain old (j/k you're probably 37 in real life).

W/R is less important to me than improvement, but, it's the only criteria I have to go by aside from the "efficiency" factor, unless I take notes about every game I play. Good seeing ya', Z.