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I think I'm one of those guys that makes you mad


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1973_Z1 #1 Posted 10 January 2022 - 10:26 PM

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I just started playing this about two weeks ago. I've thought about it for a while because I've always liked flying. I got the free package and started flying, trying to shoot guys down, I thought this was the object. Now that I have read a few posts it seems in my view that most battles are just a bunch of what you fellows call "bots" and there isn't too many "humans" in the game and I am not supposed to spend my time dog-fighting because if I do than the one or two "humans" that pretty much live in the game are not going to win the battle and that makes me a jerk-off and them mad. It seems also that there are varying views of how to win the battles because the "bots" don't listen and the one or two "humans" that ended up in the battle are less skilled and stupider than you so the battle is lost. I just came here to fly around and shoot guys down, it doesn't really matter to me if my side wins or not as long as I fly my fighter good and get some kills. I am trying to learn how to do this but it seems a little complicated to me seeing as how all the planes in a flight don't always do what they are supposed to according to the guys here with a lot of experience. I have tried lately to attack the mining plants and bomber bases but all that happens is I shoot up all my rockets, destroy a few ground targets, not be able to clear the whole place myself and get swarmed by defense aircraft and blasted down because I don't get any help, not the most fun in my book, I would rather go try to shoot down some opponents. Why don't you guys give me the non-flying idiot version of the basic rules of the attack so I know a little better what to do. I earned all my planes with free points except the F4U-4, I bought $29 worth of gold and converted it so I could pay the research fees, but at tier VII or whatever it is I'm flying in now it seems me and my Corsair are a little out classed, it doesn't fly the best at altitude and I get out turned by just about everyone. I am flying using a mouse and I find that I depart the aircraft quite often when maneuvering because of the "sweep" action needed to get full range. Sometimes when trying to maneuver out of danger the aircraft ends up stalled and departs, then by the time it recovers I'm dead. I bought an extreme 3D Pro and when I used it I could maneuver so hard the wings shudder and I never depart because the control inputs are all correct. The problem for me with the stick is getting used to coordinating the wrist-turn rudder but I was getting better when the trigger switch quit so I'm back to the mouse. There is a lot to this game I don't know about. I just thought I'd let you guys know what I got from reading the posts and trying to fly here in battle. By the way, if I was in one of your flights and I cost you the battle I apologize, I suck.

cobra_marksman #2 Posted 10 January 2022 - 10:41 PM

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Being this is your first post, let me give you some advice.

KEEP IT SHORT, and to the POINT.  :facepalm: 

No one is ever going to read such a long post.

We all come here to catch up on the news, were not here to read a book. :coin:



CorvusCorvax #3 Posted 10 January 2022 - 10:45 PM

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At 404 battles, you probably shouldn't be at Tier VII.  I would suggest that you step down into Tiers I-III and play there for a while until you get the feel for how to capture sectors regularly.  When you can win, by yourself or with other new players, step up to Tier IV.  Now stuff starts getting exciting, because the planes really start to become different from one another.  You get an idea of what your style is.  The U.S, Navy line is fun, but it takes some finesse to play well, and with less than 1000 battles, you wouldn't know finesse if it bit you in the keister.  Don't get me wrong - I was exactly like that, except it took me longer than 1000 battles to sort my stuff out.

You're in the right place - people will help you out here, if you ask.  But in-game, help yourself and others by not expecting the more experienced people to carry you to victory because you are clueless.  We were all clueless once, and some of us took longer than others to find our clues.  You have made a great choice to seek the advice of folks who have been playing for years.  Listen to what they say - because you'll win more, and you'll help your team win more.  Pretty soon, you'll be the one teaching others.

Good luck!

CorvusCorvax #4 Posted 10 January 2022 - 10:46 PM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 10 January 2022 - 10:41 PM, said:

Being this is your first post, let me give you some advice.

KEEP IT SHORT, and to the POINT.  :facepalm: 

No one is ever going to read such a long post.

We all come here to catch up on the news, were not here to read a book. :coin:

Paragraphs and punctuation help.  :)



12_inch_Hawk #5 Posted 10 January 2022 - 10:55 PM

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You are asking for help and trying to learn so you are off to a great start.  More importantly you have been detailed enough to give specific feedback instead of just git gud. I like how detailed it was.

 

1 The most common mistake new players make is going up the tech tree too fast.  There is no shame in spending time at low tier because that is where you develop your skills.    If anybody gets mad at you for "costing them the battle" at low tier they are just as new as you.  If you cost an experienced player a battle at low tier the experienced player will keep their mouth shut no matter what you did BECAUSE it is low tier.  You are exactly ware you are supposed to be to learn.  By the time you get to tier 7 though now you can possibly go up against tier 8 where things are much faster and much more competitive.  By that point you should know what you are doing.  You should have at least 1 skill point per tier on your pilot and your plane built BEFORE you play it.  At that point if you aren't pulling your own weight experienced players will get upset.  If anybody ever says anything to you in game always right click on their name and go to battle results.  If its just some noob ignore them but if it is an experienced player they are probably trying to help you even if it sounds mean.  I tell people to go to low tier all the time in top tier.  Its not supposed to sound mean it is because I can tell they just aren't ready yet.  They don't have the equipment or pilot skills.  You can't take a go cart into an F-1 race and expect to win.  That doesn't mean you are a bad player it just means you haven't grinded enough yet and aren't ready yet, but you will be eventually.

 

2 don't use a joystick if you ever plan on doing any flying in real life.  It is down right dangerous because the physics in this game are so messed up it will teach all the wrong muscle memory.  Even if you don't plan on doing any real flying I would still recommend using a mouse with this game and saving the joystick for other games like DCS.

 

3 on the attack you will get to learn the maps over time.  You have to do what your plane is good at.  Mines are the most important but you can't take one in your light fighter.  It would be better to take the command center and have the command center take the mine.  if there is two mines and two garrisons with an airfield in the middle than you can take a garrison than maybe the enemy mine by killing the enemy ground pounders.  If you have questions about what you should be doing on a specific map in a specific plane post them here and someone will answer them for you.  


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 10 January 2022 - 11:06 PM.


Captain_Underpants53 #6 Posted 10 January 2022 - 11:18 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 10 January 2022 - 05:45 PM, said:

At 404 battles, you probably shouldn't be at Tier VII.  I would suggest that you step down into Tiers I-III and play there for a while until you get the feel for how to capture sectors regularly.  When you can win, by yourself or with other new players, step up to Tier IV.  Now stuff starts getting exciting, because the planes really start to become different from one another.  You get an idea of what your style is.  The U.S, Navy line is fun, but it takes some finesse to play well, and with less than 1000 battles, you wouldn't know finesse if it bit you in the keister.  Don't get me wrong - I was exactly like that, except it took me longer than 1000 battles to sort my stuff out.

You're in the right place - people will help you out here, if you ask.  But in-game, help yourself and others by not expecting the more experienced people to carry you to victory because you are clueless.  We were all clueless once, and some of us took longer than others to find our clues.  You have made a great choice to seek the advice of folks who have been playing for years.  Listen to what they say - because you'll win more, and you'll help your team win more.  Pretty soon, you'll be the one teaching others.

Good luck!

THIS!

 

:great:


MSgt, USAF, (ret)

12_inch_Hawk #7 Posted 10 January 2022 - 11:25 PM

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Think of the three different periods like baseball.  Period 1 (tier 1-4) is the kiddie pool and beer leagues.  If you are just learning or there to have fun that is where you should be.  If some one gets mad at you for missing a play you can just say you are in low tier for a reason.  Since equipment and pilot skills go by percentage it makes very little difference down there.  Period 2 (tier 5-7) is the minor leagues, pilot skills and equipment becomes important. Period 3 (tier 8-10) is the majors and you better bring your A game.  You are going to be going against pro players with 15 point pilots and special projects equipment, people who have played tens of thousands of battles.  

Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 10 January 2022 - 11:32 PM.


1973_Z1 #8 Posted 10 January 2022 - 11:33 PM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 10 January 2022 - 10:55 PM, said:

You are asking for help and trying to learn so you are off to a great start.  More importantly you have been detailed enough to give specific feedback instead of just git gud. I like how detailed it was.

 

1 The most common mistake new players make is going up the tech tree too fast.  There is no shame in spending time at low tier because that is where you develop your skills.    If anybody gets mad at you for "costing them the battle" at low tier they are just as new as you.  If you cost an experienced player a battle at low tier the experienced player will keep their mouth shut no matter what you did BECAUSE it is low tier.  You are exactly ware you are supposed to be to learn.  By the time you get to tier 7 though now you can possibly go up against tier 8 where things are much faster and much more competitive.  By that point you should know what you are doing.  You should have at least 1 skill point per tier on your pilot and your plane built BEFORE you play it.  At that point if you aren't pulling your own weight experienced players will get upset.  If anybody ever says anything to you in game always right click on their name and go to battle results.  If its just some noob ignore them but if it is an experienced player they are probably trying to help you even if it sounds mean.  I tell people to go to low tier all the time in top tier.  Its not supposed to sound mean it is because I can tell they just aren't ready yet.  They don't have the equipment or pilot skills.  You can't take a go cart into an F-1 race and expect to win.  That doesn't mean you are a bad player it just means you haven't grinded enough yet and aren't ready yet, but you will be eventually.

 

2 don't use a joystick if you ever plan on doing any flying in real life.  It is down right dangerous because the physics in this game are so messed up it will teach all the wrong muscle memory.  Even if you don't plan on doing any real flying I would still recommend using a mouse with this game and saving the joystick for other games like DCS.

 

3 on the attack you will get to learn the maps over time.  You have to do what your plane is good at.  Mines are the most important but you can't take one in your light fighter.  It would be better to take the command center and have the command center take the mine.  if there is two mines and two garrisons with an airfield in the middle than you can take a garrison than maybe the enemy mine by killing the enemy ground pounders.  If you have questions about what you should be doing on a specific map in a specific plane post them here and someone will answer them for you.  

 

 

Thanks Brother, this is what advice is all about. Guys with not as many flights as some fellows need to know what to attack, when to attack and how to attack if all want to play as a team. And thanks for not starting off with "get the %$#* back to the biplane carousel where you belong!", even if it's true it rubs some people the wrong way when they ask for advice. The way I see it is if someone wants to fly off into the sunset instead of battling that is their choice, I didn't pay their entry fee. I think what this game really needs is an arena for teamwork and another for pure dogfighting, most kills most bragging rights.



cobra_marksman #9 Posted 10 January 2022 - 11:41 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 10 January 2022 - 05:46 PM, said:

Paragraphs and punctuation help.  :)

See that...what I'm talking about, ......Short, Sweet, & to the Point:P


Edited by cobra_marksman, 10 January 2022 - 11:43 PM.


12_inch_Hawk #10 Posted 10 January 2022 - 11:49 PM

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View Post1973_Z1, on 10 January 2022 - 06:33 PM, said:

 

 

Thanks Brother, this is what advice is all about. Guys with not as many flights as some fellows need to know what to attack, when to attack and how to attack if all want to play as a team. And thanks for not starting off with "get the %$#* back to the biplane carousel where you belong!", even if it's true it rubs some people the wrong way when they ask for advice. The way I see it is if someone wants to fly off into the sunset instead of battling that is their choice, I didn't pay their entry fee. I think what this game really needs is an arena for teamwork and another for pure dogfighting, most kills most bragging rights.

You will find you get better advice here on the forum than in game.  In game people are 1- in a hurry to get into the next battle and 2- upset they just lost.  That is why it will just be a quick message after a battle to "get the %$#* back to the biplane carousel where you belong!" Here you don't get that frustration of just having lost and people have the time to explain things in more detail.  For the most part it is a pretty chill community with lots of people more than willing to teach new players.  Ask questions and try to be specific.  I know being specific is hard sometimes because you don't know what you don't know so you you don't always know what to ask. That being said the more specific you are the better advice you will get.



Blaster_63 #11 Posted 11 January 2022 - 12:04 AM

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There is also the training room where you can tailor the bots on both teams, learn the strengths and weaknesses of your aircraft and others, and practice tactics.  The outcomes are not scored as part of your playing profile. 

 

To get there, go to the "combat flight" selection next to the "BATTLE" button, and hit the down arrow.  Select "Training Flight"

 

Welcome to the game!

 

 


Edited by Blaster_63, 11 January 2022 - 12:11 AM.


CorvusCorvax #12 Posted 11 January 2022 - 12:06 AM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 10 January 2022 - 10:55 PM, said:

You are asking for help and trying to learn so you are off to a great start.  More importantly you have been detailed enough to give specific feedback instead of just git gud. I like how detailed it was.

 

1 The most common mistake new players make is going up the tech tree too fast.  There is no shame in spending time at low tier because that is where you develop your skills.    If anybody gets mad at you for "costing them the battle" at low tier they are just as new as you.  If you cost an experienced player a battle at low tier the experienced player will keep their mouth shut no matter what you did BECAUSE it is low tier.  You are exactly ware you are supposed to be to learn.  By the time you get to tier 7 though now you can possibly go up against tier 8 where things are much faster and much more competitive.  By that point you should know what you are doing.  You should have at least 1 skill point per tier on your pilot and your plane built BEFORE you play it.  At that point if you aren't pulling your own weight experienced players will get upset.  If anybody ever says anything to you in game always right click on their name and go to battle results.  If its just some noob ignore them but if it is an experienced player they are probably trying to help you even if it sounds mean.  I tell people to go to low tier all the time in top tier.  Its not supposed to sound mean it is because I can tell they just aren't ready yet.  They don't have the equipment or pilot skills.  You can't take a go cart into an F-1 race and expect to win.  That doesn't mean you are a bad player it just means you haven't grinded enough yet and aren't ready yet, but you will be eventually.

 

2 don't use a joystick if you ever plan on doing any flying in real life.  It is down right dangerous because the physics in this game are so messed up it will teach all the wrong muscle memory.  Even if you don't plan on doing any real flying I would still recommend using a mouse with this game and saving the joystick for other games like DCS.

 

3 on the attack you will get to learn the maps over time.  You have to do what your plane is good at.  Mines are the most important but you can't take one in your light fighter.  It would be better to take the command center and have the command center take the mine.  if there is two mines and two garrisons with an airfield in the middle than you can take a garrison than maybe the enemy mine by killing the enemy ground pounders.  If you have questions about what you should be doing on a specific map in a specific plane post them here and someone will answer them for you.  

^^^  This is 100% correct.  Listen to this guy for tips how to play the game, and how to win.



CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 11 January 2022 - 12:25 AM

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View Post1973_Z1, on 10 January 2022 - 11:33 PM, said:

 

 

 The way I see it is if someone wants to fly off into the sunset instead of battling that is their choice, I didn't pay their entry fee. I think what this game really needs is an arena for teamwork and another for pure dogfighting, most kills most bragging rights.

Not everyone views it like this.  While it is fine to play like this in the low tiers, in the upper tiers, the other humans expect you to at least try.  As I said previously, don't expect others to carry you.  Because this game rewards winning, and you actually need the stuff that winning provides, you have some amount of responsibility to others who are playing.

If you don't want that responsibility, that's perfectly alright - that's why the training rooms exist.  Take your planes out and shoot down bots to your heart's content.  Nobody is disadvantaged at all by your lack of experience or ability (both of which come with time.)

It is unlikely that WG will ever make two different game modes that split the already-low human population.  What we have now is what there is.  Have fun with it - it's all there is.



Dennez #14 Posted 11 January 2022 - 01:27 AM

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the training room is perfect.

what ever tier your going to fly in the game lets say 4, set all the bots to tier 5 and veteran lvl.[you be the only tier 4 against all tier 5's]

pick a big map with a big nuetral central area and stay in the training room till you score at least 10 to 12k a battle and win consistently.

its helped me. reading and reseaching stuff here on the forum and practicing it in the training room will greatly improve your game play.

my 1st advice given to me was ABC -always be capping- this game is about capturing and holding bases,dogfighting is just icing on the cake. whoblackbetty has a good bomber gude,reitousair has some good stuff,12inchHawk has alot great stuff too here on the forum and for video i recommend VeeBat and ShrikeGaming plus kiaminvictus.your journey has just begun,have fun sir. :great:


Edited by Dennez, 11 January 2022 - 01:34 AM.

just a man with a big rooster.

losttwo #15 Posted 11 January 2022 - 02:13 AM

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Welcome to the mad house of mayhem.

Use a mouse and keyboard

You are off to a great start. That is learning to fly and shoot things.

Do not worry about the other loud mouth humans in the game.

If they are not good enough to carry the match to a win then it is on them not you,

Download teamspeak or discord and jump in

Ask nicely for some flight mates to help you out and learn,

Otherwise you have been given good advice from 12 inches and Dennez.

If you ever see me in game feel free to fly around and do your thing.

I will try to carry the match to a win for you



Dru83 #16 Posted 11 January 2022 - 03:43 AM

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View Post1973_Z1, on 10 January 2022 - 10:26 PM, said:

 I got the free package and started flying, trying to shoot guys down, I thought this was the object.
Nope, the object is to control the sectors. If you shoot down a red plane outside of a sector, it doesn't count toward helping your team control the sector. The only time you should go after planes that aren't in a sector is after the squall, when they are dead for good if you kill them. Or, if an Air defense aircraft happens to be outside of the sector. They count towards flipping the sector regardless of where they are. Occasionally it is helpful to clear tails for bombers and attack planes that are outside of the sector, but beware that constantly chasing planes way outside of the sectors essentially renders you unable to help your team at all.
 
"Now that I have read a few posts it seems in my view that most battles are just a bunch of what you fellows call "bots" and there isn't too many "humans" in the game..."
There are a few ways to know which players are actually humans.
  1. Bot names always start with a capital, sound like an actual name, and never have numbers or symbols
  2. If you right click on a name, a human player's name will have a pop up menu with a few choices. A bot will not have a pop up menu.
  3. I think there is still a mod available somewheres that will identify human players for you.

 

Viewing the player list before battle is important, because you should take down the most lethal threats before they have a chance to get you. Most of the time, humans are the most lethal threats.

 

"I am not supposed to spend my time dog-fighting..."
Dog-fighting has it's time and place. If you have a good team that can handle the other caps while you focus on one cap, yes a good pilot in a turn fighter can essentially turn a cap into a no fly zone. However, if your team mates can't handle the other caps, then before you know it, the enemy will own everything else and then turn their full force on you. The better idea is to fly into a sector, cap it as fast as possible, clear enemies until there's only a couple left in the sector, then go capture another sector. Folks around here like to say Always Be Capping. Many times it's better to cap a weakly defended enemy sector than to bother defending a sector where the enemy is going to outnumber you. 
 
I have tried lately to attack the mining plants and bomber bases but all that happens is I shoot up all my rockets, destroy a few ground targets, not be able to clear the whole place myself
Attacking a mining plant is only a good idea if there's something there for you to shoot. If there aren't enemy bombers or GAs that you have a chance at killing, don't bother going there. 8 HVAR rockets are only good for one medium target or two AA gun emplacements, so they aren't enough rockets to do the job if there are no planes to shoot. The "bomber bases" (we call them comm centers or comms) can't be taken by destroying only air defense aircraft. So, to take them completely by yourself, you would have to kill all the ADA first, then destroy one smaller target with your rockets. If your plane has a quick reload (60 seconds or less), the plan is to use rockets and bombs first, then hopefully they will reload and you can use them again at the same cap. If your plane has a slower reload, wait until the sector has almost flipped, then completely destroy a medium sized target to flip the cap. Destroying a ground target is generally faster and easier than downing a plane, so saving your ordnance till a cap almost flips will let you easily get the last points needed to flip it.
 
 I earned all my planes with free points except the F4U-4, I bought $29 worth of gold and converted it so I could pay the research fees, but at tier VII or whatever it is I'm flying in now it seems me and my Corsair are a little out classed, it doesn't fly the best at altitude and I get out turned by just about everyone.
 
At higher tiers, knowing your plane's strengths and weaknesses is key. Playing similar planes at lower tiers helps you learn. I like to switch back and forth between which periods I'm playing. I'll do a higher tier game to work on grinding a plane. Then, the next match, I'll play a lower tier game to work on daily missions. After that, I'll play a premium plane to earn credits. Then, I repeat the cycle. Doing so will take advantage of the daily xp bonuses and let you get used to a playstyle in a less stressful environment.
 
The Corsair is fast in a straight line and ok in a dive, but doesn't regain energy all that well. So, after diving or using up your boost, retreat until you have your altitude, speed, and boost built back up. It has devastating cannons, but they will overheat if you're not careful - tap fire until you know you can hit the target, then hose them. It cannot turn well at all, so don't turn left or right more than 30 degrees or so until you are away from enemy aircraft. Turning kills speed, no speed = death. Using vertical reversals like an Immelman or a Split-S can be better than turning. The Corsair does have a good rudder. Sometimes pulling up and ruddering over can reverse direction faster than turning. 
 
I am flying using a mouse and I find that I depart the aircraft quite often when maneuvering because of the "sweep" action needed to get full range.
Many mouse users including me assign  a keyboard key to "pitch up". I use x, though you should use whatever works best for you. So, when I'm in a tight turn, I have my flaps down, my engine cut, and I'm holding my "pitch up key" until I'm almost out of my turn. Using that pitch up key will make sure you are turning as hard as possible regardless of where you are with the mouse sweep movement.
 
Sometimes when trying to maneuver out of danger the aircraft ends up stalled and departs, then by the time it recovers I'm dead.
Learn where your plane's stall point is and keep an eye on your speed in a turn or climb. Save boost, so that if you are getting close to stalling, you can boost a couple seconds to avoid the stall.
 
By the way, if I was in one of your flights and I cost you the battle I apologize, I suck.
 
Just being here and asking questions automatically puts you way ahead of a bunch of other players out there, so you definitely don't suck.

 

PS I love reading books and the more details you give and the more questions you ask, the more we can help you. Breaking it up into paragraphs definitely helps though.



Zigfreid #17 Posted 11 January 2022 - 04:05 AM

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View PostDennez, on 10 January 2022 - 07:27 PM, said:

the training room is perfect.

what ever tier your going to fly in the game lets say 4, set all the bots to tier 5 and veteran lvl.[you be the only tier 4 against all tier 5's]

pick a big map with a big nuetral central area and stay in the training room till you score at least 10 to 12k a battle and win consistently.

its helped me. reading and reseaching stuff here on the forum and practicing it in the training room will greatly improve your game play.

my 1st advice given to me was ABC -always be capping- this game is about capturing and holding bases,dogfighting is just icing on the cake. whoblackbetty has a good bomber gude,reitousair has some good stuff,12inchHawk has alot great stuff too here on the forum and for video i recommend VeeBat and ShrikeGaming plus kiaminvictus.your journey has just begun,have fun sir. :great:

I am one who has over 28k battles, and still go to the training room weekly.

I am also one who practice ABC always be capping, it helps my team and me win.

I fly a lot of bombers, and some games have O air kills and win by only flipping sectors.:honoring:

I also set a goal for myself to score 10k personal points per game, in higher tiers 20k.

I believe you can play hard or smart, but the better players seem to play smart over hard.

This game will always challenge you, if you pay attention you will learn from each game you play.

Pick a plane and play style you like, make friends and flight up, keep your eyes and ears open and have fun.



WhoaBlackBetty #18 Posted 11 January 2022 - 04:16 AM

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TLDR

I stopped at differing views about how to win. It is ABC, Always Be Cappin'.  Period.


De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
J311yfish: " 'Seal clubbing' and 'head hunting' are an inseparable part of the competitive nature of the game, and both provide a valuable service."
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Lipstick_Torpedo #19 Posted 11 January 2022 - 10:58 AM

    Senior Airman

  • Member
  • 36448 battles
  • 16
  • [OWSS] OWSS
  • Member since:
    07-15-2016

You're doing the right thing by asking and the advice and you are getting is from some of the best and most respected players in this game.

It's a huge learning curve so stay on low tiers to learn. You will find there are some mean-spirited players. Never respond. They're not worth it.
Even when all is lost, never quit a battle. There is a lot to learn by watching other players.
Good luck, have fun and persevere. We were all new to it once.



12_inch_Hawk #20 Posted 11 January 2022 - 03:53 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 36623 battles
  • 1,037
  • [GW__S] GW__S
  • Member since:
    06-02-2018

I posted these links in another thread and thought they might be useful here to;

 

Why do I lose? - Game Guides, Tactics, and Tutorials - World of Warplanes North American official forum

The 5 stages of learning WOWP - General Gameplay Discussion - World of Warplanes North American official forum

It's not the plane, It's you! - Newcomers Forum - World of Warplanes North American official forum

50 Ways to Kill Your Lover - Newcomers Forum - World of Warplanes North American official forum

learn to use bot commands - Game Guides, Tactics, and Tutorials - World of Warplanes North American official forum






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