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The B29C has ruined tier 8 for every other plane.


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Vendetta4u #1 Posted 25 November 2021 - 03:53 AM

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The B29C is a powerful tier 10 plane that doesn't belong on tier 8. I refuse to fly tier 7,8, or 9 because there is not a plane amongst them that can take down a B29C. It is a broken plane for its tier.

 



Captain_Underpants53 #2 Posted 25 November 2021 - 03:56 AM

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??? I get taken down frequently in mine.  And that is with 29 skill point crew.
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CorvusCorvax #3 Posted 25 November 2021 - 04:06 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 25 November 2021 - 03:56 AM, said:

??? I get taken down frequently in mine.  And that is with 29 skill point crew.

I've taken you down in one, even with your high-point crew.

It's slow, and does have areas where the gun coverage is poor.  Also, with a HF that has long-range guns, you can plink away at it, and it can't touch you.  Do-335 and B&V P.203 come to mind.



tdave1953 #4 Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:46 AM

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Yes, I am regularly clobbered in the B29-C. I see certain names on the opposing team and know I'm going to be deleted by them at some point because they know what they are doing and have the plane to do it with. Long range cannons in a heavy do it relatively easily if they play it smartly. But on the other hand, I am stunned how many human pilots sit on the tail of any bomber at tier 8 and above, absorbing turret fire until they explode. They're not the relatively easy take-downs that you encounter in lower tiers and eliminating them requires developing new tactical techniques that I'm not sure you are forced to learn at lower tiers. I recall one poster here actually suggested that it's not so much that the B29 needs nerfing, but that lower tier bombers should be buffed.

 

And although they are very powerful, they are slow and have relatively long reload times. Yes, they can take sectors in one pass (as can some lower tier bombers), but can be out-bombed by faster bombers with shorter reload times if the pilot knows what are the priority targets.

 

It is definitely a beast, though--no doubt about that. And I curse all upper tier bombers who wipe out all my work in attack aircraft so quickly, but the only thing to do about that is to learn to play them better.


Edited by tdave1953, 25 November 2021 - 01:27 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 25 November 2021 - 08:28 AM

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The B-29C is a powerhouse when top of the team list. When bottom of the list, its a bit more manageable but at this point, I feel that the only way we're ever going to "fix" bombers is to change Mining Plants and Missile Bases to reduce their importance/increase their vulnerability to other classes.

 

I guess that's my cop out because I don't know how you'd nerf the B-29C without ruining it. I guess you could reduce its hitpoints?

 

Strongly agreed that part of the problem is that low-tier bombers lull people into a false sense of security over how dangerous turrets can be. Even the B-32 can be "tanked" by heavies especially if its damaged. Then people get to tier 8 and all hell breaks loose and they're getting their face melted at over 900m by planes with up to 2000HP and they just evaporate.

 

Also buff the speed of GAAs. Please


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losttwo #6 Posted 25 November 2021 - 01:05 PM

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another thread of "I do not know how to shoot it down so it needs a nerf thread."

personally, I have been flying tier 8 and have not had a problem with the B29C's 

Been trying to specialize the Xp-72.

The wins and losses have nothing to do with the B29C's  

 

My suggestion is, stop going after the B29C and start focusing on out capping. 

The key to my wins has been out capping the enemy and not trying to shoot everything.

 


Edited by losttwo, 25 November 2021 - 01:07 PM.


qu33kKC #7 Posted 25 November 2021 - 01:21 PM

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Right off the top of my head I can think of several Tier 8 that can get the job done, and Tier 9 should not be an issue unless the HF is being "less than optimal" about their approach.  The Zwilling might have a shot at a low-health B-29, but that's pretty iffy.  However, the same can be said about most HF vs an uptier bomber in Period III.

 

"I do not know how to shoot it down so it needs a nerf"  also sums it up, as mentioned above. :teethhappy:



NeaI #8 Posted 25 November 2021 - 02:02 PM

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View Postqu33kKC, on 25 November 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

Right off the top of my head I can think of several Tier 8 that can get the job done, and Tier 9 should not be an issue unless the HF is being "less than optimal" about their approach.  The Zwilling might have a shot at a low-health B-29, but that's pretty iffy.  However, the same can be said about most HF vs an uptier bomber in Period III.

 

"I do not know how to shoot it down so it needs a nerf"  also sums it up, as mentioned above. :teethhappy:

I'm sorry to admit that I'm also one of those noobs who would attack a bomber from behind and look pretty bad doing it.
Why does not someone write here how to attack the bombers from T7 to T10 effectively?
With which aircraft it goes and with which in no case?
Where are the often mentioned blind spots of the bomber tail gunners and are there differences between the German, American and Russian bombers?
Which attack vector is the right one, which one from behind is the wrong one and are there again differences per bomber nation?
If you here in the forum always speak only of the fact that all do it wrong, then writes nevertheless simply times please, how it correctly goes.
The creator of this topic has almost 12,000 battles and even he talks about how overpowering the B-29c is, for example.
So there must be quite a lot of people who don't know.



Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 25 November 2021 - 02:19 PM

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Never approach a B-29C from any rear angle.  That is just asking for it.  From above or below is the way to go.

 

The Ju 287 and EF 131 are a bit different.  The tail gunner is less potent for tier but it is a bit difficult to get to them because of their speed.  But most of the sky is a blind spot for them.

 

The best way to learn a bomber's blind spots is to get one and observe.


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cobra_marksman #10 Posted 25 November 2021 - 02:55 PM

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View PostVendetta4u, on 24 November 2021 - 10:53 PM, said:

The B29C is a powerful tier 10 plane that doesn't belong on tier 8. I refuse to fly tier 7,8, or 9 because there is not a plane amongst them that can take down a B29C. It is a broken plane for its tier.

 

Please don't blame the B-29 for your short comings of not understanding "  the proper way of attacking and defeating the bombers. ":great:

Hey in case your not keeping up with current events....Don't attack a B-29  in a light fighter.:facepalm:

Also, if you approach my B-29  from the front, remember my top and bottom turrets will meet your attack ...:playing:  with lead.

 


Edited by cobra_marksman, 25 November 2021 - 02:59 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 25 November 2021 - 03:17 PM

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View PostNeaI, on 25 November 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

I'm sorry to admit that I'm also one of those noobs who would attack a bomber from behind and look pretty bad doing it.
Why does not someone write here how to attack the bombers from T7 to T10 effectively?
With which aircraft it goes and with which in no case?
Where are the often mentioned blind spots of the bomber tail gunners and are there differences between the German, American and Russian bombers?
Which attack vector is the right one, which one from behind is the wrong one and are there again differences per bomber nation?
If you here in the forum always speak only of the fact that all do it wrong, then writes nevertheless simply times please, how it correctly goes.
The creator of this topic has almost 12,000 battles and even he talks about how overpowering the B-29c is, for example.
So there must be quite a lot of people who don't know.

 

Well, part of the problem is that a good bomber pilot can very easily make a good approach a lethal one by maneuvering in gunner mode. Between two good pilots its a game of probe, feint and parry with the attacking pilot trying to bait the bomber into a bad position and the bomber pilot trying to do the same. 

 

As a set of general rules:

 

1. On no account do you approach any bomber above tier 7 from directly behind. You can do that against any bomber up to tier 5. At tier 6 and 7, the B-17G and B-32 will start putting lethal amounts of lead your way if you try while the Ju-288A and Tu-2 can inflict a lot of damage as well. From tier 8 onwards, approaching directly from the rear is suicide.

 

2. The American "strats" have a zone I call the "Zone of Death", which is a 30 degree arc directly to the 4 - 5 o'clock and 7 - 8 o'clock positions. This is where they can concentrate the most firepower on you - the B-17G alone delivers more DPS at longer ranges in this zone than a tier 7 light fighter and it gets worse from there. If you find yourself in a 5 o'clock - 7 o'clock position of an American bomber within 900m, run

 

3. The B-29C has its  zone of greatest lethality at a 30 degree angle above the horizontal plane because its forward dorsal turret packs quad .50 cal instead of the double .50 cal of its other dorsal and ventral turrets.

 

4. The Soviet Tupolevs and Su-10 have a lethal zone at a 45 degree angle to their 6 o'clock and above the horizontal, again because they have double heavy guns pointing that way instead of the single weapon anywhere below the horizontal plane. The effective range of their guns is about 900m though Specialized bombers can start hitting you at 1.4km

 

5. The German tier 8 - 10 all have a 45 degree cone directly to their 6 o'clock. They're vulnerable everywhere else. Like the Russian bombers, they have about a 1.2 - 1.4km max range if they're packing the right equipment. As Underpants said, most of the difficulty with these guys will be their speed which can tip 1000kph in a flat run.

 

6. The best way to deal with a bomber is from directly above and directly below. All bombers have a 30 - 45 degree cone directly above and directly below which they cannot hit - even the American "strats".

 

7. Another high risk way is to get in within 300m and facehug the bomber. The game's turret mechanics are very janky - basically they operate on a "lock on" mechanic which makes them absolutely lethal at long range (since accuracy is optional) but within 300m, that lock on mechanic starts to bug out and will have trouble locking on to a rapidly maneuvering target at such ranges. Get in close, bob and weave and keep burning the bomber down (Sabre and Thunderjet are good at this)

 

8. The best way to attack a bomber is when he's unawares - so look for the signs. If the bomber seems to be making adjustments to keep you in his lethal zone, that means the pilot is in his turret and he's waiting for you. Stay away. Wait for him to get distracted before closing in. He can't stay in his turret forever - he'll either fly off course, miss his bombing run or crash into something. So if you want to kill him, stalk him. At very least you drive him away from his objective and you have the speed advantage on him (unless he's a German - in which case its, just wait until he commits to turning back and then hit him from the front.

 

8a. Also, keep in mind what I said about lethal zones. A canny reader can already guess that bomber pilots will start to pitch up as you get within range. You can use this to your advantage by diving and forcing him to choose either to continue into a loop (bombers are very bad at looping) or to terminate the pitch up and leaving his belly exposed to you for your own attack. The really good ones will start to circle so they don't have to stall themselves out trying you keep you in their zone of death. Don't turn with them - use your speed to again get under his kill zone and force him to start maneuvering again - the flight controls in turret mode don't work the same as in flight mode so he'll struggle with complex maneuvers.

 

None of this is to say that bombers are easy to deal with - they are not. The Ju-287, EF-131 and Su-10 are game-breakingly OP in experienced hands to the point where games essentially boil down to which team has the better bomber and bomber pilot for the map. But these are some tips I can share in how to deal with them in ways that won't get you absolutely murdered.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 25 November 2021 - 03:28 PM.

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trikke #12 Posted 25 November 2021 - 04:26 PM

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every bomber pilot here knows that i'll just sit right behind you and trade huge heavy shells for small bullets until one of us dies     i'm just that stubborn

 

i'm able to break off if my shells aren't hitting, while the bomber cannot break off      it's always a death match for them

 

i purposely aim at turret gunners     knock one out and they all turn off momentarily      i think i read that right?     

 

what i don't do is waste one more shell after they cap what i was trying to protect        even though i want to, really really want to      

 

most of the time, they can respawn closer to their next target, so killing them after the fact just helps 'em     dammit!


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CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 25 November 2021 - 04:34 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 25 November 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

what i don't do is waste one more shell after they cap what i was trying to protect        even though i want to, really really want to      

 

most of the time, they can respawn closer to their next target, so killing them after the fact just helps 'em     dammit!

I do.  But not to kill them.

I like to knock them down to about 100HP, then leave them like that.

They can recover some HP, but when they get to the next sector, the flak will focus them.  :)



SpiritFoxMY #14 Posted 25 November 2021 - 04:42 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 26 November 2021 - 12:34 AM, said:

I do.  But not to kill them.

I like to knock them down to about 100HP, then leave them like that.

They can recover some HP, but when they get to the next sector, the flak will focus them.  :)

 

This


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NeaI #15 Posted 25 November 2021 - 05:18 PM

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Thank you SFMY for your effort to answer my questions. :great:

I missed such a description and secretly I hoped that exactly you share your great knowledge with us.
Thank you very much for really helping the beginners and not just writing l2p - and this is not the first time you do this.

You have already written a lot of useful posts here in the forum. :)

 

I can only envy trikke for such a wingman .... :sceptic: 


Edited by NeaI, 25 November 2021 - 05:34 PM.


trikke #16 Posted 25 November 2021 - 06:20 PM

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yep     it's a pleasure to fly with him      it's been almost four years, several times a week       i've forgotten everything he's shared with me multiple times

 

but it's not really a great experience for him, because i forget important things       i want to go YOLO all the time     and then... he has to carry me    

 

he talked me into flying T10 for the first time        which i was adamantly against       frankly, jet planes just seemed to be ridiculous to me, in a ww2 game

 

the maps were too small and the altitude is too condensed for jets, i said         resistant for two full years       and then, after about 200 T10 battles, it clicked

 

but it's such a different game at high tiers        one mistake compounds quickly        a great flight partner makes the transition easier

 

ty, brother    o7


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WhoaBlackBetty #17 Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:05 PM

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EXCELLENT stuff for how to kill a  bomber in https://nightwitches.enjin.com/

Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 25 November 2021 - 07:59 PM.

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Captain_Underpants53 #18 Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:05 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 25 November 2021 - 11:26 AM, said:

every bomber pilot here knows that i'll just sit right behind you and trade huge heavy shells for small bullets until one of us dies     i'm just that stubborn

 

i'm able to break off if my shells aren't hitting, while the bomber cannot break off      it's always a death match for them

 

i purposely aim at turret gunners     knock one out and they all turn off momentarily      i think i read that right?     

 

what i don't do is waste one more shell after they cap what i was trying to protect        even though i want to, really really want to      

 

most of the time, they can respawn closer to their next target, so killing them after the fact just helps 'em     dammit!

No.  A bomber with multiple turrets (B-32, B-17G, etc) will only lose one or maybe two turrets at a time.


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CorvusCorvax #19 Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:44 PM

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View PostWhoaBlackBetty, on 25 November 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

EXCELLENT stuff for how to kill a  bomber in https://nightwitches.enjin.com/forum. 

+1

 



_Panzerkunst_ #20 Posted 25 November 2021 - 08:07 PM

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I got absolutely creamed by a B-29 in a Tier 8 HF last week, he kept changing directions so there was no "safe approach" as stated here previously. 

With high angle attacks you can avoid a lot of the turret fire but it will still get you as you escape and with only doing a couple hundred dmg per attack, I'd need 8 plus attack runs and sadly my HP would be gone by then. 

Most B-29s just kinda sit there so it's easy to get around and take off big chunks of HP per run, only needing 3 runs or so. 

The ones that are Full Spec and Ultimate Equip/High Pilot Skills are very tough for anything except maybe Tier 9 HFs like the P. 228.

You just have to hope by squall line it is low on HP and you are not. 

If the map has a Mining Plant or Missle Base you're kinda screwed either way but yeah, only Tier 8/9 HFs can even begin to threaten the B-29C. 

 

Lastly, if a B-29C is dropping bombs on your base and you're in a LF or MRF, try killing the Bot GA's just after the bombs explode to get back some Cap points. 

It's very hard to do but if you're able to reverse the Cap points the bomber just got, the ground targets take a while to respawn so you can keep your sector alive for another miin or 2. 


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