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Why do I lose?


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12_inch_Hawk #1 Posted 07 November 2021 - 06:24 PM

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Why do people lose battles?  Sigle engagements are a different topic and if you lose an engagement over an important sector it becomes pretty obvious why you lost the battle.  What about battles that you win every engagement but still lose the battle?  Maybe you never even see the human on the other team and he scores less points than you.  Is it the bots fault?  Is it a big conspiracy against you?  You are Erich "Fing" Hartmann reincarnated so it if you lose it must be because the other guy cheated right?  WRONG!

 

At what point in the battle did the other team take more sectors than your team?

What point in the battle did the other team pass you in points?

Where were the humans when the sectors flipped? 

 

If you can't answer the first three questions the reason you lose is because you aren't looking at your map enough, not just the mini map but the whole map. Try working on your situational awareness.  The best players have the best situational awareness and it is something that always can be improved even for the best players.  

 

Specifically which bots took which sectors?

Why didn't you prevent the humans and bots from taking those sectors or take sectors faster?

 

Maybe the answer is because you were out tiered or the other guy had a better plane so you lost engagements against him or he got around the map faster.  At least you can answer why you lost but If you can't answer those two questions the problem is you haven't memorized the maps yet.  It takes a lot of time but once you know the patterns for each map you can use that to your advantage.  If you know your bots will take a sector without you than you don't need to waste time there and can go somewhere else to be more productive.  Alternatively you can go there and get the points before your bots if you want to drag out the battle and make more points or medals.  The quickest most efficient way to win is when you score the LEAST points to win.  That is counter productive to making points but you don't have to do it every battle.  It is just important to know so when you do go up against a good player(s) you can still win by being more efficient.  Other battles you can screw around to make points.  It becomes a balancing act.  How can you score the most points but still win?  Experiment with taking different sectors when you get all bot battles to see what your bots will do.  

 

Once you improve your situational awareness and get to know the maps well enough that you know what is going on you will be able to answer why you lose every single time that you do.  If you know why you lose than you can do something about it.  You can try something different next time.  Take some individual responsibility and stop blaming the bots or you will never change (what you are doing wrong) and you will always be a loser.  



12_inch_Hawk #2 Posted 07 November 2021 - 06:35 PM

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I'm not trying to say that I never lose.  I am not the best player in the game by far.  What I am saying is that when I lose I know why.  I am constantly trying to learn and improve.  I write this post to give new players the tools so they can learn and improve.... Also because it drives me nuts when people whine about cheaters, or bots or rigged games, etc.  Like seriously, man up and don't whine to me in a pm after a battle because you are butthurt that you lost.

Dennez #3 Posted 07 November 2021 - 07:14 PM

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i blame my losses on doing burnt offerings to the goddess Mary Jane.

 

also blame it on this plane the   Henschel Hs 129 А

 

i bet no one has a video of them winning in that plane.lol

 

ive read quite a few of your post u r knowlegable about the game. respect :honoring:

 

loved your learning stages post.


Edited by Dennez, 07 November 2021 - 07:17 PM.

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12_inch_Hawk #4 Posted 07 November 2021 - 08:01 PM

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View PostDennez, on 07 November 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

i blame my losses on doing burnt offerings to the goddess Mary Jane.

 

also blame it on this plane the   Henschel Hs 129 А

 

i bet no one has a video of them winning in that plane.lol

 

ive read quite a few of your post u r knowlegable about the game. respect :honoring:

 

loved your learning stages post.

Thank you. Burnt offerings to Mary Jane and heavy lifting using liquid free weights (aka beer curls) will reduce your situational awareness lol.  

 

I was actually playing that plane yesterday.  I was flighted up with Aquabat In a fighter and we were winning battles we had no business winning.  I played 6 battles in it and won every single game.  I can't post video here but if you DM me your email I will send you the replays. I have a nice one where we had a T5 who quit on our team leaving the 2 of us in t4 and we were up against 3 humans in t5.  The only thing that plane has going for it is that it's so bad everyone just thinks you're easy food.  I got 8 aerial kills that battle for just that reason.  killed the human in the spitfire 3 times.  My record is 9 kills in a single sortie, 66.67% win rate over 66 battles played.  My goal right now is to get all my premium planes up to 70% including the Hs 129a.


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 07 November 2021 - 08:26 PM.


tdave1953 #5 Posted 07 November 2021 - 08:20 PM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 07 November 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

At what point in the battle did the other team take more sectors than your team?

What point in the battle did the other team pass you in points?

Where were the humans when the sectors flipped?

 

Thank you for this 12 inch. I'm about 5000 games in, so not quite a new player, but this is a good awareness raiser for me. Situational awareness is definitely a weak point for me.

I can always answer the first two questions, but I have to say I don't answer the third one very well or easily. Identifying where the humans actually are: any tips for how to better do this "on the fly" while you're trying to organize your next steps in the battle and managing your engagements?



12_inch_Hawk #6 Posted 07 November 2021 - 08:48 PM

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View Posttdave1953, on 07 November 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

Thank you for this 12 inch. I'm about 5000 games in, so not quite a new player, but this is a good awareness raiser for me. Situational awareness is definitely a weak point for me.

I can always answer the first two questions, but I have to say I don't answer the third one very well or easily. Identifying where the humans actually are: any tips for how to better do this "on the fly" while you're trying to organize your next steps in the battle and managing your engagements?

Yes, Hit TAB CONSTANTLY!  Any time you aren't in an engagement hit TAB.  If you are transiting between sectors hit TAB.  Also use the alt key to display plane types on the map.  Instead of all planes being arrows fighters will be diamonds, heavies will be captains bars, etc.  Besides multirole there is usually only two of each class per team.  If the human on the opposite team is in a heavy and you see a bot heavy than by process of elimination the other heavy must be the human.  Now you know exactly where the human is even though you are nowhere near him.

 

Here is another one.  At the beginning of the battle as soon as you see a sector flip red on the other side of the map hit tab.  The player (human or bot) with the most points on the red team must be in that sector that just flipped.  

 

Anticipate where they will go.  For example if the human is in a bomber and there is a garrison on the left and a mine on the right good chance the human in the bomber is going to the mine.  If you see the mine get a bit of red in its capture circle at the same time as the human just got points now you have confirmation.

 

The difficulty comes in when there are multiple humans.  It is easy to keep track of two humans on the enemy team plus a human on your team (3 humans) but when it is 4 vs. 4 now you have to track 7 humans in your head.  How many things can you track in your head at once?  This is why I say even the best players with the best situational awareness can still improve.  It is always possible to keep track of more things in your head at once than you currently can.  Ideally you want to keep track of all 12 red planes and 11 blue planes while still concentrating on what you are doing.  That is 23 things to keep track of all at once and is next to impossible so just keep trying to improve.  



Commodore_Sailracer #7 Posted 07 November 2021 - 10:33 PM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 07 November 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

If you know your bots will take a sector without you than you don't need to waste time there and can go somewhere else to be more productive.  

This is a confounding problem.  If I leave the bots to take a sector, they will not take it, even if there is no enemy around.  If I decide to head over to that sector to give them a hand, they will flip it right before I get there.  The bots know when you are looking and only try when you are watching them.  The moment you turn your back and go pay attention to something else, they turn into brainless morons who immediately forget everything they know about flying and shooting.



CorvusCorvax #8 Posted 07 November 2021 - 10:41 PM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 07 November 2021 - 10:33 PM, said:

This is a confounding problem.  If I leave the bots to take a sector, they will not take it, even if there is no enemy around.  If I decide to head over to that sector to give them a hand, they will flip it right before I get there.  The bots know when you are looking and only try when you are watching them.  The moment you turn your back and go pay attention to something else, they turn into brainless morons who immediately forget everything they know about flying and shooting.

This happened to me several times today.  Leave a military base after killing the ADA, thinking "hey, there's a GAA and a bomber here, they'll take it and I can go do something else."

Nope.  They both died in-sector, to AA.

 

Sigh.

 

Two bombers and a GAA at a plant.  Hey, you guys have this.  Nope, they really don't.

Red CC with a sliver left, and two fighters over it.  Nope.  They both get shot down.

You cannot count on your bots for anything.  They might, or might not, do something productive.  I lose three battles today by NOT directly babysitting my bots.  Only when I am physically there, in-sector, do they cap.  Then we all move on to the next sector, and I stay until we have it capped.


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tdave1953 #9 Posted 08 November 2021 - 12:17 AM

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Thanks again 12 inch. I do these things relatively easily in my main aircraft (bombers), but find it very hard to do in the various kinds of fighters. Your immediate objectives in bombers are relatively straightforward. In fighters there's a lot to juggle and, as you say, a much greater multitasking load. But I like how you put it, which I distill into practice, practice, practice these multitasking skills because you can always improve them.

 



Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 08 November 2021 - 01:16 AM

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As the old saying goes, 'If you want something done right, yer gotta do it yerself.'
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ncoof13th #11 Posted 08 November 2021 - 01:59 AM

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This is all great if your playing specialist planes. If your not though, and trying to grind up to specialist status, get ready to do all this and still lose a whole lot.  

trikke #12 Posted 08 November 2021 - 01:51 PM

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great posts as always, GP!

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BuffaloTime #13 Posted 08 November 2021 - 03:20 PM

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Sometimes it is bots period. I was in a match in the  NC 1070. I got 4 chevrons, there were two humans on red that both got hero of the sky. They lost. If you looked at team score my bots had a lot more chevrons than theirs. So, sometimes its RNG.

Captain_Underpants53 #14 Posted 08 November 2021 - 03:43 PM

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View PostViper_7242NC, on 08 November 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:

Sometimes it is bots period. I was in a match in the  NC 1070. I got 4 chevrons, there were two humans on red that both got hero of the sky. They lost. If you looked at team score my bots had a lot more chevrons than theirs. So, sometimes its RNG.

Yes


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cobra_marksman #15 Posted 08 November 2021 - 04:42 PM

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Simply put Not all players are looking to win the Battle  :ohmy:

You must take into 2  things considerations when playing and looking to WIN battles.

 

1.) Your teammate or teammates,... just might be on the " Week-End Event " that has nothing to do with your strategy of winning.

     Their only concern is completing the requirements that are being requested by the event.

    " This really means regardless of what you want them to to, they won't  and your really on your own, to possibly win the battle." :ohmy:

 

2.) They are on the " Daily Missions "  ( 1- 4 - & 10 token missions and are looking to complete them for  TokensCredit, and Experience  :coin:

   Some missions don't require a win, others request that they only Attack ( or worse yet ) that they only Defend  Airbase or a Garrison.

   Still other mission just require a total number of planes being shot down, and they don't have to be in a base to accomplish it.

So Just try to keep that in mind :facepalm: when things along with the round begin to go sideways.....:B


Edited by cobra_marksman, 08 November 2021 - 04:46 PM.


12_inch_Hawk #16 Posted 08 November 2021 - 08:43 PM

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View PostViper_7242NC, on 08 November 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:

Sometimes it is bots period. I was in a match in the  NC 1070. I got 4 chevrons, there were two humans on red that both got hero of the sky. They lost. If you looked at team score my bots had a lot more chevrons than theirs. So, sometimes its RNG.

Than post a replay and answer the questions



losttwo #17 Posted 09 November 2021 - 01:17 AM

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View PostViper_7242NC, on 08 November 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:

Sometimes it is bots period. I was in a match in the  NC 1070. I got 4 chevrons, there were two humans on red that both got hero of the sky. They lost. If you looked at team score my bots had a lot more chevrons than theirs. So, sometimes its RNG.

 

Again score has nothing to do with winning. 

I just can not figure out why anyone above 5K battles can't figure that out. 

High score doesn't equal a win 



trikke #18 Posted 09 November 2021 - 01:06 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 08 November 2021 - 09:17 PM, said:

 

High score doesn't equal a win 

 

i like that feature       ty, devs!


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Dennez #19 Posted 09 November 2021 - 10:44 PM

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he who captures the most bases and hangs on to them longer wins,not how many planes you shoot down.

 

ive won with 4k points and lost with 20k points.

 

i learned its all about the bases.

 

playing that way my presonal points went down a little but i win more.


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bub_russ #20 Posted 10 November 2021 - 01:51 AM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 07 November 2021 - 11:35 AM, said:

I'm not trying to say that I never lose.  I am not the best player in the game by far.  What I am saying is that when I lose I know why.  I am constantly trying to learn and improve.  I write this post to give new players the tools so they can learn and improve.... Also because it drives me nuts when people whine about cheaters, or bots or rigged games, etc.  Like seriously, man up and don't whine to me in a pm after a battle because you are butthurt that you lost.

We do not control what the others do, only what we do. Those who get frustrated at things they have no control over are destined to repeat the same mistakes as they continue to ignore the fact that they are making them. Did the bots play better on the other side? Yeah, maybe. That isn't important though, because they will play better on your side about the same amount over a long period of time. The more games you play, the more the luck of the draw is even for everyone. What is important is what YOU could have done to play better. There's always something you could do better whether that's actual gameplay or metagame stuff. 


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