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The best of times, the worst of times.

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Zephyr_VFR #1 Posted 13 October 2021 - 10:11 AM

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This game is very frustrating in it's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde way battles play most of the time. The high rng factor of WoWP is frustrating in that I can easily run a string of superiority wins or superiority losses. That is a fact of this game and as such I can either live with it (which I do because I like the visuals and easy of flying... That is perfect for me, plus the planes are super gorgeous looking with some very super cool paint jobs available) or quit. But the most enjoyable flights are the ones that are very close right down to the end that require good flying skills to win. Not some superiority sub 6 minute blowout win or blowout loss. For example my most fun battle yesterday was against 2 very good flighted up players:

 

tier IV AR-97 in Pacific Ocean map

 

I generally dislike this map, and when I pulled up the roster to see who I was up against I immediately thought "this isn't going to end well" (another blowout loss). To my pleasant surprise this did not happen (I was completely wrong and I didn't get assigned to the weaker bot team) and we battled back and forth for control of the center mine sector. Ultimately my team prevailed with a a narrow victory and a nice payout:

 

 

Battles like this are when WoWP is at it's best, most enjoyable for me. Even a hard fought loss is as equally enjoyable:

 

 

I can't find a screen shot of a 797:800 loss but that was a super fun battle too.

 

These longer battles are much more enjoyable and preferred by me instead of the usual quick blowouts:

 

 

The number of these types of battles far exceed in quantity the number of super fun close score battles. I wish Wg would recognize that most players want to play hard and have our battles be close right to the last point. But for some reason (that I can't understand based on numerous Discord chats with other players) Wg thinks we love these super quick blowout wins/losses over the longer close scoring battles. Wg must think I'm wrong on my preference for the longer closer scoring battles but I have no way of knowing except from the feedback I get from other players and they express similar views as me. Am I really in the minority on this? Please reframe from the "git gud" or "L2P" troll replies to a <100:400, <200:600, or <300:800 loss battle. I am equally not enjoying the 400:<100, 600:<200, and 800:<300 battles too. All lopsided battles are not as enjoyable as the nail-biters. 



TeamTerrence #2 Posted 13 October 2021 - 11:25 AM

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Would you like to know how many more re-roll accounts you'll need to create to get the person who cares?

Thorondar #3 Posted 13 October 2021 - 12:10 PM

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Not to mention he has a reputation for bailing on games.

losttwo #4 Posted 13 October 2021 - 12:23 PM

    which way do we go?

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:facepalm:

Trauglodyte #5 Posted 13 October 2021 - 12:43 PM

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I am curious as to how he managed to have an asterisk next to the names of the bots.  

RedLeg03 #6 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:29 PM

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They’re still working on the tic tac toe version of this game.  This is where they consider pilot skills, plane, player win rate, and make both sides completely equal.  You only have to wait in queue a little longer.  The new and improved bots will perform alternatively strong and weak during the course of the match to make sure each side feels they get the same bot college try, and of course to ensure every match goes down to the wire.  Don’t worry though, even though every player ends up with a 50% win rate this is how real battles are too:  Completely fair and both sides start the battle completely equal and it’s always a “good” battle and you feel like you have control of it all.  It’ll be great.  Everyone will want to play for that 50% win rate.  It makes it easy to see if you’re improving.  Oh, and there will be way less to post about.  I’ll miss that part the most.

 

I got my ars handed to me several times last night, one match had two spec’d geese and a spec’d 410 on the other side.  Sometimes I’m on that team.  Doesn’t happen that often.  The randomness is applied equally to all.  The rest is up to me.  I do not drop out.  The way I look at it is I’m on a team.  And besides you just never know.

 

My theory is that in certain planes in certain drop rotations, you can get an “unfavorable” string of matchups.  Purely based on who’s playing in what planes at a particular moment.  Again that’s just my little theory based on the randomness of the game.  I either take a break, jump in a plane that can dominate, or move a couple tiers.



jack_wdw #7 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:42 PM

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Gets banned from the forum every time, creates new account and posts the same shenanigans.

Only way to stop this, is to ban his original account from the game. (MarkoPollo)

Edited by jack_wdw, 13 October 2021 - 01:43 PM.


losttwo #8 Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:43 PM

    which way do we go?

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We will refrain from the L2P and GitGud comments if you will stop making alternate accounts to post your 

whiney spamming threads about lopsided battles and super bots determining most of the battle outcomes.



Trauglodyte #9 Posted 13 October 2021 - 02:46 PM

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It is interesting, that there are people like this in ever WarGaming game.  Best thing, to do, is to put him/her/it on your forum ignore list.  You still end up seeing that a new topic has been created.  But, you at least have the satisfaction of not having to read it.

Mudguts_ #10 Posted 13 October 2021 - 03:12 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 13 October 2021 - 07:43 AM, said:

I am curious as to how he managed to have an asterisk next to the names of the bots.  

 

It's a MOD.  Discussed here: http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/50858-2191-whos-the-ai-bots/


Edited by Mudguts_, 13 October 2021 - 03:32 PM.

"Push me, shove you."

"Oh yeah, says who?"


dump_arcade_pixelpilot #11 Posted 13 October 2021 - 03:17 PM

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We could not stop Marco but we can ignore him.
Most of the players are just mediocre. It's good to be part of the majority and by now I don't want anything else.

Jaguardian #12 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:09 PM

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So what I got out of this post is the following:

Everyone that responded up to this point likes the mostly lopsided battles that are happening in WoWP or doesn't want WG to make it better.

The OP has multiple accounts, so even if he states something that I see happening myself he should be ignored.

 

As of late, I have renamed MM to MMM, meaning the mismatch maker since the majority of battles are pretty one sided, win or lose.

I don't go on the forums as much as I used to, but if a post has a valid point, it shouldn't matter who makes it.



wylleEcoyote #13 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:39 PM

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That is certainly one way to look at it.
From my point of view; it looks a bit different.   .

To me; it seems that Marco still hasnt learned how to do bot control efficiently.
Therefore; whenever Marco comes across a player that actually does know how to manage bots, it looks like Marco's bots are always failing.  
And just about everyone else here except Marco seems to know this.  

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  zeGermans? All of them. I-17Yak-1MiG-3, La-5
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1/2/3/5, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire I/Vb IM, DH.100 F1,
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40 /51 A/D, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B/N, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
Skua, Hurricane I/II/D, Tornado, Typhoon, Sea Hawk, All of zeGermans, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: F5F, P-38 F/J, XP-54/58/75, F7F, P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, BV P.203, Me 262/ HG II, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, All of zeGermans, Wirraway
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, EF 131, Pe-2 

 


losttwo #14 Posted 13 October 2021 - 06:43 PM

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View PostJaguardian, on 13 October 2021 - 01:09 PM, said:

So what I got out of this post is the following:

Everyone that responded up to this point likes the mostly lopsided battles that are happening in WoWP or doesn't want WG to make it better.

The OP has multiple accounts, so even if he states something that I see happening myself he should be ignored.

 

As of late, I have renamed MM to MMM, meaning the mismatch maker since the majority of battles are pretty one sided, win or lose.

I don't go on the forums as much as I used to, but if a post has a valid point, it shouldn't matter who makes it.

 

I am sure and would think that most of the players that play consistently

disagree with Marko's and your finding. That would of course be a guess. 

Personally and from my experience I rarely have lopsided battles. 

Might be because I am an average to mediocre player. 

However I would have to guess that during my playing time and battle count

only about 1 out of 100 battles is ever lopsided to the point of " why did I even log in this morning to play "

 

Also I seem not to have the same problem with RNG as Marko tries to complain about. 

Winning or losing a match is solely dependent on my performance in battle. 

And mostly seems to be limited by how other humans are playing their particular plane. 

 

I have run into serval players that have a grave misunderstanding of sector priority based on the plane they are flying. 



CorvusCorvax #15 Posted 13 October 2021 - 11:28 PM

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View PostJaguardian, on 13 October 2021 - 06:09 PM, said:

So what I got out of this post is the following:

Everyone that responded up to this point likes the mostly lopsided battles that are happening in WoWP or doesn't want WG to make it better.

The OP has multiple accounts, so even if he states something that I see happening myself he should be ignored.

 

As of late, I have renamed MM to MMM, meaning the mismatch maker since the majority of battles are pretty one sided, win or lose.

I don't go on the forums as much as I used to, but if a post has a valid point, it shouldn't matter who makes it.

Well, no.  Not too many people like lopsided battles, so you got that one wrong.  The difference is that Marco here has shifted tack - instead of blaming bots for his poor play directly, now he claims RNG or matchmaking.

 

Regurgitating this same lie in different forms - RNG, rigged battles, bot mismatch, the matchmaker has it in for me, etc., is still lying.

 

Sure, some times you play like a potato, and the other side does it all right.  Lopsided loss.  But that's not because their bots were better or the RNG rigged the game to make bad matches, or whatever mumbo jumbo Marco is drooling out these days.

 

Lopsided losses, especially with zero points on your side, is your fault.  Yes, when it happens to me it's my fault.  Not the bots, or the MM or the RNG or the phase of the moon or the current dollar exchange rate in Cypress.  Me.  

 

Yes, the MM is not random.  That much is obvious from observation.  But it doesn't reward some people and pick on others.  Its equally bad for everyone.   And, since nobody here has access to the algorithm,  any statements about how it works is nothing more than presenting opinion as fact. (Look carefully and you might notice it here.)

 

I'm not sure there is a single WoWP player that would not like to see the MM made a little more sophisticated.   But that doesn't imply that Marco has any clue about it.  Those two things are not related.  He really isn't stating things that are happening, if you read what he is writing carefully.  

 

His blowout losses are a result of him not being able to either L2P or git gud.  Having seen him play, with my own eyes, I question how much he had to do with the wins he also doesn't like.

 

For the record, WG probably likes quick games.  More battles means more consumables consumed, which means more money.


Edited by CorvusCorvax, 13 October 2021 - 11:30 PM.


Trauglodyte #16 Posted 14 October 2021 - 12:28 PM

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I don't know anything about bots.  I know that letting bots go unchecked will lead to losses.  And, I know that bots especially like going to specific zones based upon the map, so skipping everything else and moving center is often times the better move.  I know that, once a bot is engaged, F3, F4, and F7 amounts to nothing.  I also know that, for whatever reason, F2 and F3 contradict each other.

 

The point is bot behavior is really beyond us.  So, you have to do your best to work within the bot chaos.  I still don't exactly understand it but going to a neutral zone and killing ADA instead of the reds is a mistake and letting reds or ADAs kill your bots is a mistake.  WoWP is a lot like WoT, in that cascade failures will ultimately doom you.  The more teammates you have available, the more likely you are to win.  Ergo, killing the opposing bots and/or keeping YOUR bots alive will ultimately lead to a larger probability of winning.

 

All of this leads, to mini-map vision.  If you suck, at paying attention to your surroundings and utilizing the information that the game provides you, you are going to suck at the game.  There is no tier 11 specced plane with level 5 equipment that is going to save you from being a monkey wearing blinders.  And, being a monkey wearing blinders in a new plane or a plane that you're not good at, while possibly also being bad at the game just leads to horrible things like players with 10k+ games and sub-40% win rates.



trikke #17 Posted 14 October 2021 - 03:56 PM

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all of his past history aside...   

 

it's really tough to beat Ziggy flying a bomber       congrats, Marco


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore     

 

 #smarterpilotscanpostpics


WhoaBlackBetty #18 Posted 14 October 2021 - 04:13 PM

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I lost a blowout 800 to ZEROOOOO last night.  I also was on the winning side of a couple blowouts.  In clan count ins last night, we had quite a few close battles fought down to the wire, they were very exciting battles.  Two times the red team acquired supremacy, and us blues took the sectors back and won. (Never give up! NEVER!)  Most battles were 800 to 400 to 600ish, not blow outs but one-sided because the humans were better or RNG or whatever and someone has to win/lose.  I got HotS, and lost, I got HotS and won and I did almost nothing once or twice and won.  I drank vodka.

 

I am going to make my mother a nice, juicy hamburger today.  She will like that. 

 

WBB


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Postal_Monkey #19 Posted 14 October 2021 - 06:05 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 13 October 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

That is certainly one way to look at it.
From my point of view; it looks a bit different.   .

To me; it seems that Marco still hasnt learned how to do bot control efficiently.
Therefore; whenever Marco comes across a player that actually does know how to manage bots, it looks like Marco's bots are always failing.  
And just about everyone else here except Marco seems to know this.  

I can assure you most people don't know how to utilize the bots. Maybe most people on the forum, but most people in the game do not

 



Trauglodyte #20 Posted 14 October 2021 - 06:21 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 13 October 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

That is certainly one way to look at it.
From my point of view; it looks a bit different.   .

To me; it seems that Marco still hasnt learned how to do bot control efficiently.
Therefore; whenever Marco comes across a player that actually does know how to manage bots, it looks like Marco's bots are always failing.  
And just about everyone else here except Marco seems to know this.  

 

View PostPostal_Monkey, on 14 October 2021 - 06:05 PM, said:

I can assure you most people don't know how to utilize the bots. Maybe most people on the forum, but most people in the game do not

 

 

It is ironic, that we're talking about this.  I literally just got out of game, where my team was up almost 500 cap points and was sitting at 700 something and we lost.  Squall line hit and they were down 5 planes immediately.  It came down to me and 7 bots against 4 of them.  I spammed F2, F3, F4, and F7 until I thought my keyboard would die.  What happened?  The 2 HF bots, with me, died via lawn darting and to an ADA, respectively.  My hit registration decided to die in a fire, to the point where I couldn't spit in the ocean.  And the other 5 bots mysteriously decided to ignore my pleas, for help, and instead went 1 at a time into the enemy player and its bots who decided to work as a team.  700+ to 200+ and I lost because my BV P.210 can't do crap against ground targets, my bots went Benny Hill, and my laser canon batteries died.

 

I failed, because clearly I thought that I could flip a sector with 2 bots.  Sometimes, the game just decides to the contrary.  And it was my fault, for getting too caught up in that sector.  But, when you have 4 sectors to 1 and then it flips to 1 sector to 4 AND you're in a sector attempting to capture it, what are you supposed to do?  In the end, I chose to hunt the caps instead of trying to find the human and 3 bots that weren't on radar, which I thought was the right thing to do, and it cost me (for "reasons").

 

EDIT:  My P.210 is elite and I run 50-60 ms ping @ 100+ fps but I have NO idea how my hit reg is so bad, when I have Markman 1 and 2.


Edited by Trauglodyte, 14 October 2021 - 06:56 PM.






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