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Put on your Tin Foil Hat


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GiN_nTonic #21 Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:29 PM

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If I was WG i'd just make sweat-shops in 3rd world countries full of kids who do nothing but play WoWP and create a "false" population until the game takes hold.....but that is just me.


Four_Leaf_Tayback #22 Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:37 PM

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View PostGiN_nTonic, on 16 September 2021 - 03:29 PM, said:

If I was WG i'd just make sweat-shops in 3rd world countries full of kids who do nothing but play WoWP and create a "false" population until the game takes hold.....but that is just me.

So instead of making Nike shoes at slave wages, you advocate for them to play this game all day?

 

What kind of monster are you?


Call me Bobby

GiN_nTonic #23 Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:42 PM

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View PostFour_Leaf_Tayback, on 16 September 2021 - 09:37 PM, said:

So instead of making Nike shoes at slave wages, you advocate for them to play this game all day?

 

What kind of monster are you?

 

lol...i know it should be a crime against humanity.  



crzyhawk #24 Posted 16 September 2021 - 09:43 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 14 September 2021 - 12:47 PM, said:

The bots are only a problem because they're stupid.  Or, if you'd prefer, the bot programming is weak, especially in regards to GAA and bombers.  I've seen two GAA and a bomber spend over 5 minutes plinking away at a Mining Facility and never take it.  What makes it worse is that, despite what Blindfold says (which I don't disagree with the "levels of capabilities"), s/he never indicated whether each bot, per game, has the same spec/equipment/capability.  We have all seen games go sideway, for no reason other than bots acting like Keystone Cops, Benny Hill, Three Stooges, etc.

 

As I see it, it isn't that I know that the enemy players are bots.  Though, I'd find it comical, if WarGaming introduced rng names for all players until the end of the game, like the incognito mode in WoT.  The problem is not knowing if you're going to get the super Winged Legend bot or a bot that, at the end of the game, barely broke 1k personal points after receiving 1k personal points for free.

And yet, I often find my bots to be better teammates than many of my humans.


 


Trauglodyte #25 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:03 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 16 September 2021 - 09:43 PM, said:

And yet, I often find my bots to be better teammates than many of my humans.

 

Isn't that the truth?

I think the big kicker is that the bot consistency is so erratic.  I was just in an all bot/just me game, in my Ju 288 A.  It was a tier 7 game, 2 mines w/ center 3 garrison.  I took the mine, essentially solo, as the 2x GAA, bomber, and 2x MRFs went for the right side garrison.  The rest of the bots ignored the center and went for the enemy mine (and never made it).  After I took the mine and the two LFs respawned, they immediate bee-lined, to the mine, and circle jerked there.  We've all seen this - the bots get stuck on stupid and decide to uber defend a node, despite no reds attacking it.  As you might imagine, I got the full on donkey bots and the enemy bot team clean swept us.  I finished with almost 10k personal points and a grade 3 bomber but I kept getting swept out of the sky by both HFs who just bloodhounded me all game.  My bots just recycled themselves back to the spawn point.


I'm sure that Blindfold will see this (if he even reads the forums) and will dispute any insistence that there are variations in bot programming and that no flaws exist.  Gotta protect that product, for the sake of the bottom line.



crzyhawk #26 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:13 PM

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the bots will lock onto a target and keep going back until the game ends or they cap that point.  Did you try using F7 to get something to clear your tail?

 


RedLeg03 #27 Posted 16 September 2021 - 10:37 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 16 September 2021 - 09:43 PM, said:

And yet, I often find my bots to be better teammates than many of my humans.

A couple of ironies:

 

A match with 24 humans would give you much less control over the outcome.  I think that would be the next great complaint, whether spoken or not.  Might even be a bigger game killer.  This falls into the careful what you ask for category.

 

A match with 23 bots, if better developed and named, you just wouldn’t know.



CorvusCorvax #28 Posted 17 September 2021 - 02:11 AM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 16 September 2021 - 09:43 PM, said:

And yet, I often find my bots to be better teammates than many of my humans.

Yup.  Spitfire IX, human, got all of 920 PP before his end of battle bonus.

 

Makes it hard to get wins when you have spuds like that playing.

 

It's a good thing that I don't care much about win/loss.



Trauglodyte #29 Posted 17 September 2021 - 01:51 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 16 September 2021 - 10:13 PM, said:

the bots will lock onto a target and keep going back until the game ends or they cap that point.  Did you try using F7 to get something to clear your tail?

 

I did.  F3 got me the local MRF/Heavy, as I was in my bomber.  And F7 didn't get them to budge, though I was probably too far away from them.  So, the 2 LFs just circled and circled, until reds showed up.  They cleaned out the would-be attackers and then recommenced the circling.  It is a bug, in the programming as I've seen it several times before.  I just have to chalk that loss up to being 100% nothing to do with me and 100% being WarGaming ineptitude.  It happens!



Zephyr_VFR #30 Posted 03 October 2021 - 05:54 PM

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It's obvious the OP doesn't know a thing about AI coding otherwise he wouldn't have put up this post. Coding a computer to mimic a human player is super difficult. Just google "Turing test" (named for Alan Turing, the inventor of the test) and you will quickly learn that it is extremely difficult to get a computer to imitate a real person very well. Even in the 24th century it is impossible to do (for example Star Trek's Data). But seriously, AI programming is still a tremendous "work in progress" by companies that are specifically dedicated to working on this task, so don't expect any simple coding in this game to come anywhere close to approximating anything that we would think it's just another human player.  

RedLeg03 #31 Posted 04 October 2021 - 12:44 PM

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View PostZephyr_VFR, on 03 October 2021 - 05:54 PM, said:

It's obvious the OP doesn't know a thing about AI coding otherwise he wouldn't have put up this post. Coding a computer to mimic a human player is super difficult. Just google "Turing test" (named for Alan Turing, the inventor of the test) and you will quickly learn that it is extremely difficult to get a computer to imitate a real person very well. Even in the 24th century it is impossible to do (for example Star Trek's Data). But seriously, AI programming is still a tremendous "work in progress" by companies that are specifically dedicated to working on this task, so don't expect any simple coding in this game to come anywhere close to approximating anything that we would think it's just another human player.  


Or… he had his tin foil hat on.  For a reason that you missed entirely.  Consider the AI thing hyperbole.  So com’on, put on your tin foil hat, if you have one.


The bots are currently good enough to fool new players, for a while.  A little work and the game could make you miserably content with what you want in the game without changing anything other than what you see.

 

You think you want the game a certain way.  I am certain you wouldn’t once you got it.  That, was my main tin foil hatted point.  MM that takes into consideration player profile/ability?  50% win rate for everyone, anyone?  Just for example.  Or how about all human matches 12v12?  Chaos anyone?  One out of three or four humans and you carry some weight.  One out of 12?  Approaching luck.  Just a couple examples.

 

Or how about this:  Take away split tier flights… Is it me or am I seeing fewer flights altogether now?  I don’t flight up much anymore because I feel bad for the other team when my flight is up tiered.  Or when I’m up against a flight that’s up tiered.  Taking away split flights, wow that sure made the game better.

 

So… the tin foil hat may help you think more logically than you do without one.



trikke #32 Posted 04 October 2021 - 01:02 PM

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i am seeing more 10k bot scores lately      anyone else?       we usually go a month between seeing a bot 10k battle?     or a few weeks

 

we saw two bots on both red and blue sides over 10k, in the same battle      and one more 10k the next day      which tiers was it, S?

 

WG seems to be 'improving' the AI?      at high tiers, anyway       i should have looked at what they did...  capping or just shooting stuff


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