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It's not the plane, It's you!


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12_inch_Hawk #1 Posted 27 July 2021 - 01:56 PM

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Over the past 2 months my goal was to get all my planes to a 60% win rate.  Yesterday I achieved that goal.  What I learned from that experience is the biggest contributing factor to win rate is the player not the plane.  It's not match making, it's not cheating or hacking, It's not flighting up or split tier flights.  It is you.  

 

Even though I have been playing my lowest win rate planes my win rate over the last 28 days was 83.53%.  With the number of battles I have played I needed that kind of win to overcome some of the low win rates I accumulated.  When I started one plane was at 39%.  Some planes I had over 400 battles in and needed 60 strait wins to get to 60%.  Every loss required two additional wins just to get back to where I was.

 

Split tier flights are gone.  I play more battles per day than anyone in my clan so I played about half of my games solo and half flighted up.  I wasn't gaming the match making by switching tiers trying to be top tier.  I picked one plane and played it over and over again grinding away until it was 60%.  Sometimes I was top tier in all bot battles, sometimes I was bottom tier with nothing but noobs on my team dying in sector.  All of that stuff is just excuses. 

 

Yes some planes need a buff.  They need buffs to make them more fun to play not because you can't win in them and not to change the balance of the game.  No planes need a nerf because no plane is Op to the point you can't win against it. Yes match making does play a factor.  Some battles you just have so many bad humans on your team you can't carry them all.  The key word in that last sentence is humans.  The bots are all the same and the same on both sides.  If you can't beat bots that have predetermined patterns that are predictable that is on you.  Split tier battles are inherently unfair.  Split tier flights partially made up for it and made it more fair but someone was still always out tiered on either or both sides.  It is less fair now with both people in a flight being either top or bottom tier.  There are more unfair battles now as a result and more people quitting battles as a result.  Yes those things should still change.  All of that being said the biggest contributing factor is still you.  The better you are the more unfairness you can overcome.  

 

Play the planes you like.  Play the planes you think are fun.  Don't worry if other people think the plane is OP or a turd.  This is a game and it is supposed to be fun.  Playing the planes you like makes it less of grind and more fun.  Pick a plane you like and learn to play (L2P) that plane.  Since you are playing it so much you can get good (git gud) in it.  It is possible in every plane and against every plane.  L2P and git gud are not insults, they are just good advice that will help you have more fun.  Your choice of plane and having fun should not affect your ability to win.  

 

I recommend revisiting your low win rate planes like I did.  Just because it has a low win rate does not mean it is a bad plane.  There were some real turds on my list like the tier 4 American fighters (all of them).  There were some that people say are OP like the spitfire 1 and yak-15 that I still don't like. I especially hated the yak-15 grind.  There were some on my list that people say are OP like the P-38F and Bf109z that I do like.  Most of the planes however were actually some of my favorites like the F4F, F-84b and P-51a and people say that those planes are turds.  Those planes were the most fun to revisit.  (1.) I was winning (2.) in a plane I like (3.) that other people think you can't win in.  It was three times the fun!  The reason the win rate was so low on most of the planes on my list is because I played them a lot when I was new or a little when I was new and haven't played since.  It was not because they are bad planes.  If you revisit your low win rate planes you might be surprised at the planes you like now that you hated when you were new and first grinding them.  



cobra_marksman #2 Posted 27 July 2021 - 02:26 PM

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Good article, a bit too long  but good stuff  to read.

Edited by cobra_marksman, 27 July 2021 - 02:32 PM.


Commodore_Sailracer #3 Posted 27 July 2021 - 02:35 PM

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I'm mostly with you here, but with at least one exception.  The @#$% FW-190-A1.  As of Sunday I needed two wins in a row to get it over 60%.  I now need 9 wins.  I've been downtiered in it every @$#% battle since then.  Faced flighted T6 XP-54s multiple times and single XP-54s many times.  The only battle I won was because I had an XP-54 on my side to carry.  I don't have it specialized, so maybe it can get better, but I don't see it getting good enough to carry against the kinds of odds I am seeing at T5 recently.

 

Other planes haven't been too bad.  The T2 TSh-2 was a bit of a pain and couldn't carry, but at least with a decent wingman you still have a good chance of winning.  The TSh-3 has been a pleasant surprise after running up a 33% win rate over 42 or so battles my first time through it long ago.   Now that I've learned to fly it, wins are much easier to come by.

 

My J7W1 (and the Zeros leading up to it) are going to be my long term projects.  That was the first line I went up and my first T8, so I flew it a bunch when I wasn't good and now it sits at 291 battles with a 47% win rate.  I need 94 wins in a row to get it to 60%.  I think with this plane skill will prevail and wins should be easier to come by. 



12_inch_Hawk #4 Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:24 PM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 27 July 2021 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm mostly with you here, but with at least one exception.  The @#$% FW-190-A1.  As of Sunday I needed two wins in a row to get it over 60%.  I now need 9 wins.  I've been downtiered in it every @$#% battle since then.  Faced flighted T6 XP-54s multiple times and single XP-54s many times.  The only battle I won was because I had an XP-54 on my side to carry.  I don't have it specialized, so maybe it can get better, but I don't see it getting good enough to carry against the kinds of odds I am seeing at T5 recently.

 

Other planes haven't been too bad.  The T2 TSh-2 was a bit of a pain and couldn't carry, but at least with a decent wingman you still have a good chance of winning.  The TSh-3 has been a pleasant surprise after running up a 33% win rate over 42 or so battles my first time through it long ago.   Now that I've learned to fly it, wins are much easier to come by.

 

My J7W1 (and the Zeros leading up to it) are going to be my long term projects.  That was the first line I went up and my first T8, so I flew it a bunch when I wasn't good and now it sits at 291 battles with a 47% win rate.  I need 94 wins in a row to get it to 60%.  I think with this plane skill will prevail and wins should be easier to come by. 

OHHHHHH.....I see the problem.  I have said it repeatedly before and I must have forgot to say it this time;

-Free XP the modules

-Move your pilots up as you go or use free xp to build pilot skills, you want a minimum of 1 skill point per tier.

-Max out your equipment even if it isn't specialist.  

 

I cheated a bit and only used 5 point pilots (not special pilots) regardless of tier on the majority of my planes that were less than 60%.  I wasn't going to bother moving my good 15 point pilots (or special pilots) around.  The most I used was a few 9 point pilots that I already had in planes with lots of battles like the F4F or some 9 point pilots I had sitting around doing nothing that I moved to high tier planes.  Even most of my high tier planes I still only used 5 point pilots.  I felt that doing it that way made it possible for everyone to attain since not everyone has special pilots or special equipment.

 

I did have the advantage of having all my planes specialized already and was using maxed out equipment (not specialist equipment).  Not just the planes with less than 60% win rates but all 299 planes in my hangar.  That lets me compare the planes I was grinding to every other plane in the tier to know exactly how to set up the equipment.  I think being able to compare planes to set up equipment properly the first time was balanced out by only using 5 point pilots.

 

The Fw-190a1 really isn't that bad.  Spiritfox loves the Fw190's and they are his all time favorite planes.  Specializing it, maxing out the equipment, and having minimum pilot skills will definitely make a difference.


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 27 July 2021 - 03:30 PM.


Commodore_Sailracer #5 Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:36 PM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 27 July 2021 - 10:24 AM, said:

 

The Fw-190a1 really isn't that bad.  Spiritfox loves the Fw190's and they are his all time favorite planes.  


I wonder if that still applies to the A1 with the new T6 meta that seems to have developed in the game?

 

I'll allow that the A1 should get better specialized, but unless it gets better to a degree unlike any other plane I have experienced, it is still going to suck maxed out.  I am using a 5 point pilot.  I didn't want to spend the 50 tokens to spec this plane because I didn't expect to be flying it this much.  I'm about 15 enemy planes away from being half-way to spec.  Once I reach that point spec should only be 25 tokens, so I may do that and find out for myself.



teeaichsee #6 Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:42 PM

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i agree with mr.hawk.  for most, u can find your problem with the game by looking in the mirror.

 

L2p and get gud  please!

 

 



12_inch_Hawk #7 Posted 27 July 2021 - 03:43 PM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 27 July 2021 - 10:36 AM, said:


I wonder if that still applies to the A1 with the new T6 meta that seems to have developed in the game?

 

I'll allow that the A1 should get better specialized, but unless it gets better to a degree unlike any other plane I have experienced, it is still going to suck maxed out.  I am using a 5 point pilot.  I didn't want to spend the 50 tokens to spec this plane because I didn't expect to be flying it this much.  I'm about 15 enemy planes away from being half-way to spec.  Once I reach that point spec should only be 25 tokens, so I may do that and find out for myself.

I don't recommend using tokens to specialize it.  It is only a tier 5 so the grind isn't that long.  Just hang in there and try to use the time to learn the plane.  I agree that split tier match making is completely unfair.  Going up against tier 6's sucks but you will go against tier 4's.  It just seems like you are always getting 6's because you don't like the plane.  All the 190's were on my list.  I did it against xp-54s so I know you will be able to as well and the sense of accomplishment you will get is worth it.


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 27 July 2021 - 03:45 PM.


Jaguardian #8 Posted 27 July 2021 - 04:35 PM

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So if you say all bots have the same programming, why don't all the bots act the same way?  Just to throw one example out there, beginning of a match that has two mining plants, one close to your spawn and one close to the enemy spawn.  Both teams have bot bombers.  I have seen this play out randomly with the bots going different places sometimes, one teams bot bombers goes to the close plant while the other teams bombers go to the far away plant.  That alone disproves your statement that bots have the same programming because one teams bots are doing something different.  Bots don't go to the same point every match, sure they prioritize what zone to go to, but there is a difference in programming on which zone they go to if more than one of that type of zone is in the map.  In my reference, most time the bot bombers that choose to go the far away zone, don't even make it there before the zone gets captured.

SenatorTH #9 Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:00 PM

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View PostJaguardian, on 27 July 2021 - 08:35 AM, said:

So if you say all bots have the same programming, why don't all the bots act the same way? ................................................  That alone disproves your statement that bots have the same programming

It does not. Bots programing has several layers interfering with each other. Like: individual bot behavior, particular map scenario (which you described), team setup differences scripts, plus some we have no idea about. All of them then mix up, quite often different scripts contradict each other and give unpredictable result.



ncoof13th #10 Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:31 PM

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Wait, so you used all specialist airplanes, with maxed equipment, and good pilots to get a good win rate.  So if you really wanted to prove that its JUST the pilot and nothing else, shouldn't you take specialist OFF the planes first?  Otherwise, you have multiple factors, is it really you as the pilot, or the specialist config, maxed equipment and good pilot that are giving you the advantage to get the win rate? 

 



Corsair4790805 #11 Posted 27 July 2021 - 06:45 PM

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I agree with 90% of what your wrote - good write up.

 

The only I don't agree with is the split-tier battles.   Yes, it can be annoying being bottom tier, but, at least in my experience, bottom tier only occurs about 1/3rd of the time overall.  



Sink_Stuff #12 Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:13 PM

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Nice topic. It needs to be said more. Yet, you didn't offer advice on what to do when a player knows it's them and not the plane. This is in the new person forum and there isn't advice on what to do when a new person gets to this point of abandoning a plane to hanger when they just get too frustrated playing it.

 

As well, as another poster said what is the point of getting all planes to 60 percent if you still have to use pilots and equipment and tokens that no new person is going to have. You wrote an advanced post for new players it seems.

 

Also, if you need a plane maxed just to be able to win more in it than it isn't worth doing to me. Flying turds is flying turd and putting gold paint on a turd (60% win stat) doesn't make it a good plane. It's like you just wanted to prove to yourself that you could do it. For me, I like to make good planes better and avoid turds. I guess you ran out of goals for yourself.



Commodore_Sailracer #13 Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:50 PM

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View PostCorsair4790805, on 27 July 2021 - 01:45 PM, said:

I agree with 90% of what your wrote - good write up.

 

The only I don't agree with is the split-tier battles.   Yes, it can be annoying being bottom tier, but, at least in my experience, bottom tier only occurs about 1/3rd of the time overall.  

 

I know you like statistics, too.  I wanted some, so I relived this weeks trauma and went through all my replays of the FW-190-A1.  Downtiered 82% of the time.  5 of those battles were against one or two spec XP-54s.  Only one had an XP-54 on my side.  The one uptier loss was against 12_inch_hawk and Kootenay_Killer

 

 

  Result Up/Down Points Chevrons
1 Win (fluke) Down 7060 3
2 Loss Down 7760 1
3 Win (fluke) Down 7935 1
4 Win (easy) Down 6760 0
5 Loss (bad) Up 7880 1
6 Win Up 11730 4
7 Win (easy) Up 7955 1
8 Loss Down 8630 2
9 Win (easy) Down 7480 1
10 Win Down 7130 0
11 Loss (bad) Down 5500 0
12 Loss (bad) Down 5240 0
13 Win (easy) Down 8005 1
14 Loss (bad) Down 4785 1
15 Loss (bad) Down 5910 1
16 Loss Down 8850 3
17 Loss Down 4000 0

 

What are the odds such a string of downtiering comes when I'm trying to get the win rate up on one of the worst planes in the game?!  Did I do something wrong in a past life?


Edited by Commodore_Sailracer, 27 July 2021 - 07:58 PM.


12_inch_Hawk #14 Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:50 PM

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View Postncoof13th, on 27 July 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wait, so you used all specialist airplanes, with maxed equipment, and good pilots to get a good win rate.  So if you really wanted to prove that its JUST the pilot and nothing else, shouldn't you take specialist OFF the planes first?  Otherwise, you have multiple factors, is it really you as the pilot, or the specialist config, maxed equipment and good pilot that are giving you the advantage to get the win rate? 

 

I think you missed the point. Yes I did use specialist planes with maxed out equipment.  I used bad pilots (5 skill points instead of 1 skill point per tier) to get a mediocre win rate (60%).  Using a pilot with 1 skill point per tier, using maxed out equipment, and specializing your planes are all things that are easily attainable.  If you aren't doing those things It is you putting yourself at a disadvantage not the other way around.  You are making that choice so it is still you.  Me using special pilots with 15 skill points in a plane that has maxed out special projects equipment in all 5 equipment slots is something that is not easily attainable so that does give me an advantage.  When you know there are players like that maxing out your equipment and moving your pilots up as you go should seem obvious.  Rushing up the tech tree to fast is the most common mistake I see new players making because they don't know any better.  I keep saying it over and over again so people can avoid making the same mistake I did when I was new which was the reason I needed to fix my win rates in the first place.



WhoaBlackBetty #15 Posted 27 July 2021 - 07:54 PM

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As I read it, his goal was to get all planes to 60%, not prove to us anything, just to reach the goal.  He reached it, NICE WORK THERE, and there is simply no respectable complaint anyone can have about how he reached the goal.

 

 

Excellent work Hawk!

 

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12_inch_Hawk #16 Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:26 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 27 July 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

Nice topic. It needs to be said more. Yet, you didn't offer advice on what to do when a player knows it's them and not the plane. This is in the new person forum and there isn't advice on what to do when a new person gets to this point of abandoning a plane to hanger when they just get too frustrated playing it.

 

As well, as another poster said what is the point of getting all planes to 60 percent if you still have to use pilots and equipment and tokens that no new person is going to have. You wrote an advanced post for new players it seems.

 

Also, if you need a plane maxed just to be able to win more in it than it isn't worth doing to me. Flying turds is flying turd and putting gold paint on a turd (60% win stat) doesn't make it a good plane. It's like you just wanted to prove to yourself that you could do it. For me, I like to make good planes better and avoid turds. I guess you ran out of goals for yourself.

Most players don't know it is them.  As you could see from Jaguardians comment they blame the bots, or the plane, or anything but themselves.  Taking responsibility for your own actions is the FIRST STEP towards improving and that is the advice for new players.  After you take that first step abandoning a plane to hanger when you get to frustrated isn't a bad thing.  This is a game and it is supposed to be fun.  Just realize it is you and not the plane.  You just haven't figured it out yet, no big deal.  That way you do come back to it later.  The example was given about the fw190a1.  I mentioned spiritfox because he is a better more authoritative source on that particular subject than I am.  He has played it more than me and does better than I do in it.  Once you realize it is you not the plane you can seek out those people and ask for their advice on how to set it up and how to play it.  If you just blame the plane you miss out on learning how to play it.  You miss out on the fun and sense of accomplishment from doing well in it. 

 

As for the other poster see my response to him.  Those are things a new player should have.   If the new player doesn't have those things they are rushing up the tech tree to fast.

 

Maxing out a plane is not "just to win more".  You have no idea what a plane can do or is capable of until you max it out.  You might actually like a plane after you do but you don't know until you do.  People climb mountains for no other reason than because they are there.  It is the challenge of it.  If you get frustrated playing a certain plane you can always climb a smaller mountain or a plane that is easier to use.  Just don't decide you don't like a certain plane until you can do well in it.

 

It is just like I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it.  That is exactly what it was.  I set a goal and I did it.  I have by no means run out of goals.  If I could get all my planes to 60% with bad pilots I can get all my premiums to 70% with good pilots.  I need 624 strait wins for that.  Losses mean I need 3 additional wins to make up for 1 loss.  It also gets me back to training my good special pilots that are not up to 15 skill points yet which is another goal.  I really have fun in planes with rockets so I calculated I need 993 strait wins to get all the planes with air to air rockets to 80%.  It would require 4 wins to make up for each loss.  Find something you like, find your mountain and climb it!



12_inch_Hawk #17 Posted 27 July 2021 - 08:28 PM

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View PostWhoaBlackBetty, on 27 July 2021 - 02:54 PM, said:

As I read it, his goal was to get all planes to 60%, not prove to us anything, just to reach the goal.  He reached it, NICE WORK THERE, and there is simply no respectable complaint anyone can have about how he reached the goal.

 

 

Excellent work Hawk!

 

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thanks!  and you are completely right in how you read it.



cobra_marksman #18 Posted 27 July 2021 - 09:02 PM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 27 July 2021 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

I know you like statistics, too.  I wanted some, so I relived this weeks trauma and went through all my replays of the FW-190-A1.  Downtiered 82% of the time.  5 of those battles were against one or two spec XP-54s.  Only one had an XP-54 on my side.  The one uptier loss was against 12_inch_hawk and Kootenay_Killer

 

 

  Result Up/Down Points Chevrons
1 Win (fluke) Down 7060 3
2 Loss Down 7760 1
3 Win (fluke) Down 7935 1
4 Win (easy) Down 6760 0
5 Loss (bad) Up 7880 1
6 Win Up 11730 4
7 Win (easy) Up 7955 1
8 Loss Down 8630 2
9 Win (easy) Down 7480 1
10 Win Down 7130 0
11 Loss (bad) Down 5500 0
12 Loss (bad) Down 5240 0
13 Win (easy) Down 8005 1
14 Loss (bad) Down 4785 1
15 Loss (bad) Down 5910 1
16 Loss Down 8850 3
17 Loss Down 4000 0

 

What are the odds such a string of downtiering comes when I'm trying to get the win rate up on one of the worst planes in the game?!  Did I do something wrong in a past life?

Most of my flying is solo ( 95% ), and i began to notice a shift in the game play

Getting harder and harder to win a round when your playing against higher & higher, tier players.

Noticed that in the last 20 flights, over  75% of them been flying against higher tier ( real ) players.

Being listed at the bottom of the score board before the battle every time really sucks, ( once again, flying against better planes ) :angry:

Granted my choice of planes are either the Bombers, - Ga's - and a few Heavy's but i really don't understand why 75% of my battles are against higher tier players.

It also seems like the players on the other team seem to score on top half of the scoreboard, while my teammates score on the lower half, ( even behind some of the dumb Bots ).

Is it my # of total battles....:playing:is it my type of plane, :izmena:is it because i'm wearing a clan tag, :Bor maybe my Negative Personality Traits  :facepalm: are the cause ?

Really, don't understand the string of losses, along with flying against superior ( higher tier planes ), but it's starting to get old, and my enjoyment for this game:B is beginning to fade away:hiding:

 


Edited by cobra_marksman, 27 July 2021 - 09:07 PM.


Corsair4790805 #19 Posted 27 July 2021 - 09:22 PM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 27 July 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

 

I know you like statistics, too.  I wanted some, so I relived this weeks trauma and went through all my replays of the FW-190-A1.  Downtiered 82% of the time.  5 of those battles were against one or two spec XP-54s.  Only one had an XP-54 on my side.  The one uptier loss was against 12_inch_hawk and Kootenay_Killer

 

 

  Result Up/Down Points Chevrons
1 Win (fluke) Down 7060 3
2 Loss Down 7760 1
3 Win (fluke) Down 7935 1
4 Win (easy) Down 6760 0
5 Loss (bad) Up 7880 1
6 Win Up 11730 4
7 Win (easy) Up 7955 1
8 Loss Down 8630 2
9 Win (easy) Down 7480 1
10 Win Down 7130 0
11 Loss (bad) Down 5500 0
12 Loss (bad) Down 5240 0
13 Win (easy) Down 8005 1
14 Loss (bad) Down 4785 1
15 Loss (bad) Down 5910 1
16 Loss Down 8850 3
17 Loss Down 4000 0

 

What are the odds such a string of downtiering comes when I'm trying to get the win rate up on one of the worst planes in the game?!  Did I do something wrong in a past life?

 

Interesting.  It's not unusual to see a string of bottom tier battles, and I've experienced 80% bottom tier strings.   Overall, across the planes and tiers I fly (currently 6 and 8 most of this month), it's at 30.25%.

 

I could break it out by plane and/or tier, but haven't done so yet.  I have noticed there appears to be a variance depending upon tier, but I haven't drilled down into that yet.

 

I really need to slap together a database and data entry screen - it'd be a lot easier to pull data for various scenarios that way.  Excel only takes me so far LOL 



12_inch_Hawk #20 Posted 27 July 2021 - 09:50 PM

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View Postcobra_marksman, on 27 July 2021 - 04:02 PM, said:

Most of my flying is solo ( 95% ), and i began to notice a shift in the game play

Getting harder and harder to win a round when your playing against higher & higher, tier players.

Noticed that in the last 20 flights, over  75% of them been flying against higher tier ( real ) players.

Being listed at the bottom of the score board before the battle every time really sucks, ( once again, flying against better planes ) :angry:

Granted my choice of planes are either the Bombers, - Ga's - and a few Heavy's but i really don't understand why 75% of my battles are against higher tier players.

It also seems like the players on the other team seem to score on top half of the scoreboard, while my teammates score on the lower half, ( even behind some of the dumb Bots ).

Is it my # of total battles....:playing:is it my type of plane, :izmena:is it because i'm wearing a clan tag, :Bor maybe my Negative Personality Traits  :facepalm: are the cause ?

Really, don't understand the string of losses, along with flying against superior ( higher tier planes ), but it's starting to get old, and my enjoyment for this game:B is beginning to fade away:hiding:

 

Being bottom tier does suck and it is not fair.  We should have single tier match making and I have said that many times before.  Match making is not random in that you should expect to be top tier half the time and bottom tier half the time but it is not nearly as insidious as people make it out to be.  It really comes down to player population.  For example right now there is A LOT of people playing the xp-54 at tier 6 because it's new and the novelty hasn't worn off yet.  There is generally always a low population at tier 7 because people don't want to go against tier 8's.  That means if you are playing anything in tier 5 you are far more likely to get out tiered and be up against all of those people in tier 6 because there are just so many of them.  When people see the trend they also start playing tier 6 instead of tier 5 making the problem even worse.  It varies throughout the day but that is just an example.   Also take notice of the flights of those higher tier players.  Now that there are no split tier flights you are far more likely to run into a flight of high tier players and have them both out tier you.  Since the battles with flights are more likely to be unfair there is a trickle down effect meaning other battles that there are no flights in are getting the leftovers making those battles more likely to be unfair as well.


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 27 July 2021 - 09:57 PM.





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