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The 5 stages of learning WOWP


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frankndeath #41 Posted 15 July 2021 - 05:09 AM

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I am hoping i am at 2 

qu33kKC #42 Posted 15 July 2021 - 11:37 AM

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Stage 3 for me.  I rarely mess around with game extensions/farming tactics.  I've had Attack Flight farming come back to bite me too many times.  4 week W/R a hair under 60%, although yesterday did my win-rate no favors.  I consider myself still having a lot to learn in several phases of the game.  Recognizing the issue is the first step towards improving upon it!

CorvusCorvax #43 Posted 15 July 2021 - 02:15 PM

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Not sure how this topic is a game guide or a tutorial, and it's really short on tactics.

I play this game to have fun, not accrue stats.  The fun is in discovering a plane's hidden talents, or finding a new way of doing things, or flighting up with friends.

2.0 changed a lot of stuff I liked about the game, and it would have been nice to explore those things - but 1.x is dead, and will never return.  R.I.P.
I might not be King of the Hill, but I am the Prince of Potatoes.

12_inch_Hawk #44 Posted 15 July 2021 - 02:36 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 15 July 2021 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not sure how this topic is a game guide or a tutorial, and it's really short on tactics.

I play this game to have fun, not accrue stats.  The fun is in discovering a plane's hidden talents, or finding a new way of doing things, or flighting up with friends.

2.0 changed a lot of stuff I liked about the game, and it would have been nice to explore those things - but 1.x is dead, and will never return.  R.I.P.

You say that as if fun and accruing stats are mutually exclusive.  They aren't.  If the "fun is discovering a plane's hidden talents" that will accrue in your stats when you do.  Low stats are an indication that you haven't found the plane's hidden talents.  You are banging your head on the wall getting frustrated that you haven't found them yet so would be less fun by your own definition of fun.  You're not finding new ways of doing things if you aren't getting the things done.  



Sink_Stuff #45 Posted 15 July 2021 - 02:46 PM

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View Post12_inch_Hawk, on 15 July 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

You say that as if fun and accruing stats are mutually exclusive.  They aren't.  If the "fun is discovering a plane's hidden talents" that will accrue in your stats when you do.  Low stats are an indication that you haven't found the plane's hidden talents.  You are banging your head on the wall getting frustrated that you haven't found them yet so would be less fun by your own definition of fun.  You're not finding new ways of doing things if you aren't getting the things done.  

 

Yes I am experiencing this for the first time as well. I have a lot of planes now and I have hated some of them ever since I got them. Yet, now with the advice and videos of so many other players telling me and showing me how to play things differently, I am liking or at least appreciating some of these planes for the first time. It was bombers that I hated for a long time. It seemed simple, but how to play them correctly eluded me for a long time. I still hate sniper planes, but after seeing many videos now showing how to set them up and how other people play them, I am interested to try them again since my connection is good. The biggest problem was that I didn't realize just how far in front of enemy planes you need to aim for some of these cannons. 

 

I am now having fun in some planes that I have hated for the longest time. 



losttwo #46 Posted 15 July 2021 - 02:48 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 15 July 2021 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not sure how this topic is a game guide or a tutorial, and it's really short on tactics.

I play this game to have fun, not accrue stats.  The fun is in discovering a plane's hidden talents, or finding a new way of doing things, or flighting up with friends.

2.0 changed a lot of stuff I liked about the game, and it would have been nice to explore those things - but 1.x is dead, and will never return.  R.I.P.

 

Not a guide or tutorial ? 

It is write there in black and white, interracially comingling in meaning. 

Each number represents and describes what or where you should be at in learning the game.

A potato always starts out in the ground before it becomes a French fry.

 

And if you are trying to find the hidden talents of a plane then you would naturally increase in win %. 

Otherwise you are just flying around like a wire guided missile at the end of its tether. 

Ever seen a rogue TOW



CorvusCorvax #47 Posted 15 July 2021 - 03:16 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 15 July 2021 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

Not a guide or tutorial ? 

Nope.  There is nothing in there that teaches anything. 


I might not be King of the Hill, but I am the Prince of Potatoes.

WhoaBlackBetty #48 Posted 15 July 2021 - 06:14 PM

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TO NO ONE IN PARTICULAR:

 

I'm where Corvus is, if I understand him right.  To me, also, it is about FUN, not winning. HOWEVER, I absolutely try to win THAT BATTLE.  I put everything into winning THAT BATTLE.  I win, cool, I lose, maybe ponder a few moments on why and then move on, never giving a thought to win %.  As it happens, I may be a 60% win rate pilot whether I make win% important or not.

 

There are times when I just want to fly a certain style. I do so love to take out the 109E and, no matter what or who, fly it like a B&Z LF.  I just love that.  Sometimes I want to jump in  GAA and just destroy ground reds and bomb kill the unknowing.  Even then, I may want to LBSH GAA as opposed to IL 20 GAA, the styles are different.  And yes, there is a pleasure in flying bombers, and again, do I want to attack aggressively in certain bombers, or do I want to go into orbit and just pZZ everybody off?  Lately I have gotten into MRs.  I do not fly them well as I cannot find their strength., and I am told that is why I do not understand them.  The point is, sometimes I want to get into one to blow up red groundies AND take excellent shots at flying reds. FUN.  I do try to win, but not at the expense of enjoyment.

 

My point is, even if I get better with a certain plane or category, that does not necessarily translate to a better win rate. If I wanted my flying to translate into a higher WR,  I would play 3 battles I am going to win in, in a plane that I rule in, in period 1 or in my 1092, to make up for each loss.  I ain't gonna do that because I do not care about win %.  I care about enjoyment, and going after win % is just not FUN to me, it does not give me that instant gratification that finally flying a Tornado correctly, win or not, gives.  Getting into a HF and FLYING IT LIKE A HF is fun, win or not most of the time.  Getting into that freakin' LBSH and destroying relative noobs who may have never seen an LBSH, is fun.  Being the most annoying nuisance I can possibly be in a 109B is fun.  Blowing up buildings and waking up the whole sector from 3 zip codes away in my Fat Lady IL 20 is FUN.

 

Paying attention to win rate is not fun, it becomes a drag, a grind, and that just isn't for me.  I could raise it, rather easily, I am good enough to, but my enjoyment comes from elsewhere, and I do not care what anyone here thinks about my win rate anyway.  

 

Over-concern about win rate, you can have it and all the irritation that comes with it, as in you can rage quit, curse MM, curse us, spit on WeeGee because they do not want you to have a high win rate and fight you on it, you can use your win rate insistence as a platform to look down upon the rest of us, while we laugh and have enjoyment and L2PGitGudSmileAboutIt.

 

Just don't question us on our WoWP proclivities, you show your narrow minded ignorance.  You have your fun, we have ours.

 

WBB

 


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12_inch_Hawk #49 Posted 15 July 2021 - 06:38 PM

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The "worth" comes from knowing the traits and characteristics a person has that dictate their results.  If someone wants to obtain your level they can emulate you.  If they want to obtain any level they can emulate those traits and characteristics.  Both you and WhoaBlackBetty in your comments have demonstrated exactly what I described in stage 3.  If someone looks at your results It lines up perfectly with what I predicted.  Your win rates are perfectly in line with my expectations.  If anything your comments have proven I was right.

WhoaBlackBetty #50 Posted 15 July 2021 - 06:53 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 14 July 2021 - 08:48 PM, said:

 

Pi.....:P

 

Pi = 3.14159

'AAHHHHhhhhhh. Didn't even think about that.


De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
J311yfish: " 'Seal clubbing' and 'head hunting' are an inseparable part of the competitive nature of the game, and both provide a valuable service."

  "Fair" is a 4 letter "F" word.                                                                                                                   

       


trikke #51 Posted 15 July 2021 - 07:18 PM

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i've got 9 planes with a fat zero WR          and they'll never see daylight again       

 

especially you, xf4f       i don't care if Z3ro thinks you're a fun plane, and posts scores that are double mine in favorite planes...

 

and the Horten and Tornado are both hovering around 25%       Millie doesn't care for me, either       she says it's my fault       she said/he said


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Corsair4790805 #52 Posted 15 July 2021 - 08:09 PM

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I'm of two minds on this.  I like the progression Hawk has laid out, and it seems to generally mirror my progress in WoWP. 

 

I'm trying, in my own play, to focus less on my winrate (which has been hovering around 58.00% all year - I can't seem to nudge it above that) and how well I do in the game (personal points, capture points, aerial kills/ground targets, etc).   I see value in Hawk's guide, in that it, at least for me, encapsulates goal posts to grade my own advancement in the game, and within those goalposts are some nuggets that pertain to doing better (i.e., steps 2 and 3) - even if the guide itself doesn't detail how to perform those nuggets, it could give completely new players an idea of things to ask questions about or search the forums for previous discussions.

 

I play for fun and to be a productive member/contributor for my team.   I hate being *that* player who tanks the game for their team, though I've done it more times than I like.  

 

I would like a high win-rate, but at my current level of ability that's a pipe dream.   However, playing to improve my performance in various areas and classes, if successful, will probably lead to some sort of bump in my win rate.  I'd rather have a 50% win rate and perform solidly in every aircraft than a high win-rate powered by a handful of arguably easy-to-fly planes, though.  If I can get to 50-60% win rate in an aircraft with consistently solid performance, I'll be satisfied.

 

Just my two cents, which won't even get you a stick of gum any more :)

 

 



trikke #53 Posted 15 July 2021 - 09:25 PM

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great idea for a thread, GP!

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore     

 

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J311yfish #54 Posted 16 July 2021 - 02:46 AM

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Lipstick_Torpedo #55 Posted 16 July 2021 - 07:17 AM

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Overall I think this is a pretty useful assessment. If you understand and accept where you are, you know where you need to be headed. It is certainly more useful than the game guides.
 

I'd place myself at stage 3 with the all too frequent ability to make spectacular errors, usually tactical.

 

One addition to Stage 1 and 2 is the tendency of players at this level to blame their losses on MM, cheating, hacking, aimbots, or wowp bias towards a clan or individual.

 

Just remember, you can't educate pork!



Sink_Stuff #56 Posted 16 July 2021 - 08:20 AM

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View PostLipstick_Torpedo, on 16 July 2021 - 07:17 AM, said:

Overall I think this is a pretty useful assessment. If you understand and accept where you are, you know where you need to be headed. It is certainly more useful than the game guides.
 

I'd place myself at stage 3 with the all too frequent ability to make spectacular errors, usually tactical.

 

One addition to Stage 1 and 2 is the tendency of players at this level to blame their losses on MM, cheating, hacking, aimbots, or wowp bias towards a clan or individual.

 

Just remember, you can't educate pork!

 

It's useful for everyone but mostly it is useful as a reality check on where you really are, verses where you think you are. It is very common for players in this game to get a very overconfident opinion of themselves because it is very easy to farm win rate and medals and to think that those things alone mean that you are a good player. How often do we see on this forum or in game people claiming that they are fairly good players when they really aren't. Even a 60% win rate doesn't mean that you are a good player. I have even beaten people routinely that have 65% win rates.

 

Do you know how to play every class well?

Do you know the finer details of how to win and carry games in any class?

Do you know the finer details of bot behavior and mechanics?

 

I cannot tell you about the dumbest things that I have heard and seen supposedly good players do in this game. The dumbest thing was when my last clan insisted that I take and hold the center airfield all game on a 5 cap map with no mines. Of course we lost often because anyone who just goes and caps the big 4 caps in a circle will win while the idiots who stay at the airfield lose. Yet, this entire clan had this gospel belief that if there was a central airfield then someone had to hold it all game long. 

 

What we really need is for top players to make a thread like this one that simply has it all written out so that no one can deny where they really are. Every skill that a truly good player develops needs to be in a rating system. 

 

I am not a good player, as I posted about in this topic earlier. I can't even use sniper planes at all. Guess what? If you can't use sniper planes either than I don't think you are a good player either. If you can't bomber well and don't know how to flip a cap in one pass then I don't consider you a good player. If you play a multirole and drop all your rockets on the biggest target without even knowing if you are going to hit all the buildings properly then you are not a good player. But since we never have gut checks in this game or on this forum like what 12 inch hawk has posted here then people just go off with these delusions of grandeur thinking that they are great players with 60% win rates when they barely even know half of the true game and just farm win rate in OP low and mid tier planes. Don't sit there thinking you are a good player if all you do is farm your spitfire and Bf 109B all day long against newbs. I say "you" but I don't specifically mean you torpedo I just mean players in general. I have no idea what kind of player you are because I have never looked you up. 

 

Wargaming is constantly trying to prevent players from knowing just how bad they are. But knowing that is a good thing. I would never have bought a book on ACM if better players didn't educate me that it was actually important to know in this game and that I was not a very good player at all in many areas of the game. As well, I have never posted garbage "Get Gud" statements to other people here that I can remember. If I ever did I am sorry. Instead, I try to tell people what they are indeed bad at and how they can actually improve. I ask people to post replays. But mostly people are too afraid of criticism and actually don't want to know what they are bad at. Instead, they get off on having these false ideas about themselves being superior to almost everyone else they see and they can't stand when reality shows them that their bloated self image is just a lie. The truth is that people often don't want the truth, but that bitter truth is often just what they actually need. 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 16 July 2021 - 08:25 AM.


jack_wdw #57 Posted 16 July 2021 - 09:19 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 16 July 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

 

It's useful for everyone but mostly it is useful as a reality check on where you really are, verses where you think you are. It is very common for players in this game to get a very overconfident opinion of themselves because it is very easy to farm win rate and medals and to think that those things alone mean that you are a good player. How often do we see on this forum or in game people claiming that they are fairly good players when they really aren't. Even a 60% win rate doesn't mean that you are a good player. I have even beaten people routinely that have 65% win rates.

 

Do you know how to play every class well?

Do you know the finer details of how to win and carry games in any class?

Do you know the finer details of bot behavior and mechanics?

 

I cannot tell you about the dumbest things that I have heard and seen supposedly good players do in this game. The dumbest thing was when my last clan insisted that I take and hold the center airfield all game on a 5 cap map with no mines. Of course we lost often because anyone who just goes and caps the big 4 caps in a circle will win while the idiots who stay at the airfield lose. Yet, this entire clan had this gospel belief that if there was a central airfield then someone had to hold it all game long. 

 

What we really need is for top players to make a thread like this one that simply has it all written out so that no one can deny where they really are. Every skill that a truly good player develops needs to be in a rating system. 

 

I am not a good player, as I posted about in this topic earlier. I can't even use sniper planes at all. Guess what? If you can't use sniper planes either than I don't think you are a good player either. If you can't bomber well and don't know how to flip a cap in one pass then I don't consider you a good player. If you play a multirole and drop all your rockets on the biggest target without even knowing if you are going to hit all the buildings properly then you are not a good player. But since we never have gut checks in this game or on this forum like what 12 inch hawk has posted here then people just go off with these delusions of grandeur thinking that they are great players with 60% win rates when they barely even know half of the true game and just farm win rate in OP low and mid tier planes. Don't sit there thinking you are a good player if all you do is farm your spitfire and Bf 109B all day long against newbs. I say "you" but I don't specifically mean you torpedo I just mean players in general. I have no idea what kind of player you are because I have never looked you up. 

 

Wargaming is constantly trying to prevent players from knowing just how bad they are. But knowing that is a good thing. I would never have bought a book on ACM if better players didn't educate me that it was actually important to know in this game and that I was not a very good player at all in many areas of the game. As well, I have never posted garbage "Get Gud" statements to other people here that I can remember. If I ever did I am sorry. Instead, I try to tell people what they are indeed bad at and how they can actually improve. I ask people to post replays. But mostly people are too afraid of criticism and actually don't want to know what they are bad at. Instead, they get off on having these false ideas about themselves being superior to almost everyone else they see and they can't stand when reality shows them that their bloated self image is just a lie. The truth is that people often don't want the truth, but that bitter truth is often just what they actually need. 


Great write-up!
Also good openingpost from Glenn!

 

I can relate to a lot and think i might be somewhere between 2 and 3.
The maximizing points is something i already do, though i can't relate to the other stuff at 4..
Although i don't agree with everything, i do agree with a lot.

I do think there are much more variables needed to make a proper equation (mouse vs joystick (or gamepad in my case) players, solo vs flighted players, ...).
Overall, I don't agree that these are 5 stages of learning, i think they simply are just five stages of being in this game.
At a certain point, when you have grinded all the tech tree lines and when you do nearly own all the premiums, there is not much more left for your account besides trying to maximize your WR.
Some will do it, others will get fed-up and just leave the game plain and simple because at this point there is no endgame content and the game can become really dull and repetitive.
I found myself in such a situation on NA. didn't know what i was flying for anymore, got too much silver, tokens and freeXP to spend, got all the planes i wanted, yet i was always flying the same 3 planes over and over.
I really have no interest in playing some classes, because i have no interest in those planes, or because WG has made my control option incompatible with some classes. (no turret control, no snipersight, no free-look-around option)
Glad i discovered EU-server in the meantime, otherwise, it would result sooner or later in a burn-out break for me.

Actually this is something i can recommend to anyone who loved the game but found himself at a point where it's just too much of the same each day.
Start yourself a new account, on the same server or another server.
You'll have to regrind a lot, but there is fun in that (also frustration).
Strange thing is that i love now most planes which i hated when i had to grind them for the first time and vice versa.
Also, my new account is  not comprimised anymore by my kids playing it, which i also seem to like more and more.
They have the password for my NA-account and i gave them permission to fly whatever whenever they want.
they won't get the password of my new EU-account anytime soon. :D




 


Edited by jack_wdw, 16 July 2021 - 10:06 AM.

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Corsair4790805 #58 Posted 16 July 2021 - 09:27 AM

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Having had the pleasure of flying opposite Lipstick_Torpedo, I can attest that, in my opinion at least, they are a very competent player (as well as a gentlebeing).   Someday I may even be able to beat them, or at least make them break a sweat beating me :honoring:

 

I also like their suggested addition to stage 2.  

 

It's very common for newbie pilots to complain about MM or supposed cheating - I once had a pilot on red accuse me and the rest of blue of running hacks of some sort, simply because we had specialized planes and red didn't.   That pilot didn't know what the wings meant, and didn't understand how the MM works (or doesn't, as the case may be), but at least I had the opportunity to walk him through what was really going on vs what they thought was going on.



qu33kKC #59 Posted 16 July 2021 - 10:36 AM

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I'm with WBB from a page back.  If all I cared about was WINNING, I'd be flying a very small number of planes.  And that would get boring.  Some days I wanna fly batplanes and rockets to the face the other side.   Some days the German GAA are calling my name.  Some days the weird ones are worth taking out, etc.  That being said, I'm always going to be trying my best in that plane, in that particular game, cuz winning gets you more stuff.  :teethhappy:

12_inch_Hawk #60 Posted 16 July 2021 - 11:10 AM

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View Postqu33kKC, on 16 July 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

I'm with WBB from a page back.  If all I cared about was WINNING, I'd be flying a very small number of planes.  And that would get boring.  Some days I wanna fly batplanes and rockets to the face the other side.   Some days the German GAA are calling my name.  Some days the weird ones are worth taking out, etc.  That being said, I'm always going to be trying my best in that plane, in that particular game, cuz winning gets you more stuff.  :teethhappy:

You can look at your win rate per plane in the clan page.  I play some really obscure planes and some real turds.  looking at the win rate for that plane tells me how I am doing in that specific plane.  I want to do well no matter what plane I am playing.  Manipulating your stats for others to see is detrimental because than you can no longer use it as an analytical tool for yourself.  I want to know how I am doing and if I'm improving.  I always want to learn and improve no matter what I am doing be it WOWP or anything else in real life.


Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 16 July 2021 - 11:13 AM.





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