523 replies to this topic

[SpiritFoxMY]

And that's the tyranny of statistics. If enough stupid people play the plane then they will bring down the win rate to a point where WG can actually point to the numbers and claim with a straight face that "its balanced". That happened years ago with the IS-3 in World of Tanks, its what's keeping the Spitfires, Ki-102, Ju-287, EF-131 and Su-10 where they are in World of Warplanes and it will likely keep the Swoose where it is. It took them years to fix the Memecake and "Russian Bias"-17 so I wouldn't hold my breath for the Swoose.

 

But its still the only way for you to meaningfully achieve anything other than continuing to make yourself a punching bag for the whole forum. Like, the fact that you're complaining about the plane but don't own it just invalidates your entire argument in the eyes of 90% of the forum. I get your argument and I agree with it in principle (I have my own opinions) but constantly talking about it isn't going to achieve anything.

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 14 June 2021 - 05:18 AM.

[losttwo]

legoboy0401, on 13 June 2021 - 11:50 PM, said:

Couple of things. First, I don’t have it. Second, are you saying that if you truly think something is OP, farm with it to the point that even WG can’t deny it needs a nerf? Players have been doing that with Spitfire Is, Ki-102s, Ju-287s, and EF-131s for a long time now, and they haven’t gotten nerfed.

 

SSSSOOOOO, 

Once again you make a thread calling for a nerf to a plane you have not flown.

Your only experience is encountering it                   and of course the human pilots flying it. 

 

I do not think the problem is the plane but that you do not know how to counter human pilots. 

 

No matter what plane a human flies it is OP against you. 

 

There seems to be a theme here 

[Captain_Underpants53]

SpiritFoxMY, on 14 June 2021 - 12:16 AM, said:

And that's the tyranny of statistics. If enough stupid people play the plane then they will bring down the win rate to a point where WG can actually point to the numbers and claim with a straight face that "its balanced". That happened years ago with the IS-3 in World of Tanks, its what's keeping the Spitfires, Ki-102, Ju-287, EF-131 and Su-10 where they are in World of Warplanes and it will likely keep the Swoose where it is. It took them years to fix the Memecake and "Russian Bias"-17 so I wouldn't hold my breath for the Swoose.

 

But its still the only way for you to meaningfully achieve anything other than continuing to make yourself a punching bag for the whole forum. Like, the fact that you're complaining about the plane but don't own it just invalidates your entire argument in the eyes of 90% of the forum. I get your argument and I agree with it in principle (I have my own opinions) but constantly talking about it isn't going to achieve anything.

[Captain_Underpants53]

losttwo, on 14 June 2021 - 04:11 AM, said:

 

SSSSOOOOO, 

Once again you make a thread calling for a nerf to a plane you have not flown.

Your only experience is encountering it                   and of course the human pilots flying it. 

 

I do not think the problem is the plane but that you do not know how to counter human pilots. 

 

No matter what plane a human flies it is OP against you. 

 

There seems to be a theme here 

[Martymart1976]

Yes, the guns are amazing, I can get about 11 or so burst out of my 37s before overheating. On my XP 58, only about 4 bursts before overheating.  With your engine in the rear, that is a big disadvantage.  I lose my engine all the time. Even though it does have pretty good maneuverability, don't try turn fighting with it..you will get deleted.  Stay high with it, the climb rate feels sluggish. I use mine to  stay high and attack heavy fighters and bombers.  If I see a distracted light fighter or a fighter out of energy, I will descend to attack it.  As others have said, its the pilot- a skilled pilot can get the most out of any plane.  I think that as more fliers encounter it and find ways to counter it, the plane will not seem so dominant.

[Master_Cylinder]

Just like any other plane if you know how to take it out it is easy.  If you nerf the 54 then you need to nerf th ME410 which I have and I take out the 54 all the time with it.

 

The sad part is that you have just not learned how to take it out yet.

 

I also suspect that you are an individual that does not pay attention to hit boxes.

 

[12_inch_Hawk]

Has anyone else noticed the planes that people complain about being unbalanced are the most balanced planes in the game?  Its never the best planes in their tier or even class that they want nerfed.  There is nothing, not a single thing, that makes the XP-54 the best.  It doesn't have the best guns (Me 410).   It doesn't have the best ordnance (P-38J).  It doesn't have the best survivability (mosquito).  It doesn't have the best speed (XP-50).    It doesn't have the best maneuverability (Ki-102).  It doesn't have the best altitude (also P-38J).  Its got no bombs, no rockets, and no turret so it isn't even the most versatile. 

 

With none of those it is basically just a fighter instead of a heavy.  If you are going to compare it to a fighter how about the P-51A.  The P-51A is both faster and more maneuverable but you don't hear the same people whining that the P-51A is too OP.  The XP-54 gives up speed and maneuverability to have better guns to make the XP-54 more balanced than the P-51A.  The planes that are the most balanced are the easiest to use because they are balanced but that also means they are inherently not the best at anything.   

[No_habla_ingles_]

I went up against them in my P-40 and I don't see what the problem is  yes if they hit you your going down (don't get hit) I had no problem taken them out

[RoIand]

Oh Legoboy - if you propagate a weakening of the XP-54, you only attract the displeasure of those who have either bought this plane with real money or effortfoll grinded.
Yet you are not such a bad player who should fear the geese ! When we were together in a team last week, you played well and became first and I second in our team. With your Friederich you lost almost no game. So if you choose your Friederich more often now in the goose season, you are on the safe side. The peak goose season will be over in a few weeks. Then the best pilots will fly their T10 jets again and normality will return in T5-T7.
And - as many have already written - the XP-54 is only as good as its pilot.
As SpiritFoxMY has already seen very aptly before, the individual statistics of the Goose will end up in the normal range after some time, because more and more bad pilots will fly them and pull the rate down.
So again, I see no need to weaken the XP-54 in a few weeks. Just as many other aircraft already mentioned are not statistically superior. The XP-54 is a good airplane, if it is flown then still by a good pilot, it appears to us mediocre pilots as superior - but this is only an optical illusion because of the momentary goose high season !

[SpiritFoxMY]

12_inch_Hawk, on 14 June 2021 - 08:05 PM, said:

Has anyone else noticed the planes that people complain about being unbalanced are the most balanced planes in the game?  Its never the best planes in their tier or even class that they want nerfed.  There is nothing, not a single thing, that makes the XP-54 the best.  It doesn't have the best guns (Me 410).   It doesn't have the best ordnance (P-38J).  It doesn't have the best survivability (mosquito).  It doesn't have the best speed (XP-50).    It doesn't have the best maneuverability (Ki-102).  It doesn't have the best altitude (also P-38J).  Its got no bombs, no rockets, and no turret so it isn't even the most versatile. 

 

With none of those it is basically just a fighter instead of a heavy.  If you are going to compare it to a fighter how about the P-51A.  The P-51A is both faster and more maneuverable but you don't hear the same people whining that the P-51A is too OP.  The XP-54 gives up speed and maneuverability to have better guns to make the XP-54 more balanced than the P-51A.  The planes that are the most balanced are the easiest to use because they are balanced but that also means they are inherently not the best at anything.   

 

They are only "balanced" if you mean "good at everything but not excellent at anything so they basically beat everyone senseless except in that one narrow window where a skilled player with a lot of knowledge of the matchup might eke out an advantage" and even then I'd argue that the XP-54 is superb in one specific area and it is what makes it unbalanced. 

 

Again, I have my opinions but I'm... honestly not going to state them here because I'm frankly tired of the arguments, all of which have been trotted out before to defend airplanes that upset the balance of the game. I'll just say this: I do think the XP-54 is overpowered and it makes tier 6 quite unfun to play which is disappointing since I have always considered tier 6 the most balanced and enjoyable tier of the game. What remains to be seen is how bad this will be in the long run.

Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 14 June 2021 - 02:01 PM.

[GhOsT_RiDeR_zErO_6_NiNeR]

Something desperately needs to be done about the constant whining on this forum. 

 

The Goose is fine.

 

I do know a good cheese vendor if the whining needs a partner. 

[CorvusCorvax]

legoboy0401, on 14 June 2021 - 04:50 AM, said:

Couple of things. First, I don’t have it. Second, are you saying that if you truly think something is OP, farm with it to the point that even WG can’t deny it needs a nerf? Players have been doing that with Spitfire Is, Ki-102s, Ju-287s, and EF-131s for a long time now, and they haven’t gotten nerfed.

Someone with two brain cells to rub together might form a conclusion from that.

[legoboy0401]

No_habla_ingles_, on 14 June 2021 - 04:38 AM, said:

I went up against them in my P-40 and I don't see what the problem is  yes if they hit you your going down (don't get hit) I had no problem taken them out

Against radar-guided tracking 37s, dodging effectively is essentially impossible.

 

 

Which isn't fair at all. Make them have half the Ki-102's autoaim(which isn't always very reliable autoaim), then we can talk about dodging a XP-54's attack runs successfully. Right now it's next to impossible.

[losttwo]

legoboy0401, on 14 June 2021 - 03:59 PM, said:

Against radar-guided tracking 37s, dodging effectively is essentially impossible.

 

 

Which isn't fair at all. Make them have half the Ki-102's autoaim(which isn't always very reliable autoaim), then we can talk about dodging a XP-54's attack runs successfully. Right now it's next to impossible.

 

of course it is impossible when you are not actively maneuvering. 

It is the same with any plane in the game. 

The key is to actively maneuver

and of course not go head on. 

Can not tell you how many times I been destroyed by a plane carrying a canon

because I either YOLO and " Oh I can get him first " only to get 1 shotted. 

Or not been paying attention when they attack from my 6. 

 

It is like the lesson of avoiding being bomb killed. 

 

You know that sign on the back of a dump truck that says stay back 100 feet. 

When a rock hits your windshield  they are not liable. 

That got you a 92 feet

[trikke]

i don't like the goose at all     

 

it poops all over my sidewalk, it chases my dog       and the sex is just brutal

 

thank goodness it'll be flying south in a couple of months

[legoboy0401]

I do not get what problems all of you have with what I’m saying. Elaborate I guess?

[12_inch_Hawk]

legoboy0401, on 14 June 2021 - 11:40 PM, said:

I don’t understand at this point. I just don’t. I’m not annoying, at all. My opinions are sound and shared by most, especially with the XP-54, and I’m not a bad player or person.

There is no reason to put me on ignore. 

Whining is annoying.  Your opinions are not sound they are echo's of a failed ideology.  Your definitions are completely backwards.   When you say something is broken what you really mean is that it works.  When you say something is wrong with a plane it is really what is good about it.  When you say what is right with a plane it is actually the things wrong with it.  The ministry of truth is really the ministry of lies.  

 

If you don't want the plane or want to play the plane, fine.  I think that is another lie but whatever.  That is your choice but don't try to take away that choice from others.  Some people grinded for it and some people paid real money for it.  Advocating for diminishing their property to meet your distorted opinion of egalitarianism makes you no better than a thief.  A thief is a bad person.  

[legoboy0401]

12_inch_Hawk, on 14 June 2021 - 09:21 PM, said:

Whining is annoying.  Your opinions are not sound they are echo's of a failed ideology.  Your definitions are completely backwards.   When you say something is broken what you really mean is that it works.  When you say something is wrong with a plane it is really what is good about it.  When you say what is right with a plane it is actually the things wrong with it.  The ministry of truth is really the ministry of lies.  

 

If you don't want the plane or want to play the plane, fine.  I think that is another lie but whatever.  That is your choice but don't try to take away that choice from others.  Some people grinded for it and some people paid real money for it.  Advocating for diminishing their property to meet your distorted opinion of egalitarianism makes you no better than a thief.  A thief is a bad person.  

If I say that something is broken, it works yes, but too well. When I say that the cons of a plane are what’s good about it, I mean from a balancing perspective. If the pros of a plane far outweigh minimal cons, that’s not okay. IMO, there must be significant reasons to not want to play a plane as well as to play a plane. If they don’t balance each other out, it makes playing other planes that ARE properly balanced just awful.

 

you’re right about the other stuff though.

Edited by legoboy0401, 15 June 2021 - 05:30 AM.

[12_inch_Hawk]

legoboy0401, on 15 June 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

If I say that something is broken, it works yes, but too well. When I say that the cons of a plane are what’s good about it, I mean from a balancing perspective. If the pros of a plane far outweigh minimal cons, that’s not okay. IMO, there must be significant reasons to not want to play a plane as well as to play a plane. If they don’t balance each other out, it makes playing other planes that ARE properly balanced just awful.

Working too well does not mean broken.  If you turn a light on and it shines brightly that doesn't mean it is turned off.  Those are opposites.  Here is another pair of opposites; better and worse.  You can't make a game better by making things worse so stop advocating for making things worse.  

Edited by 12_inch_Hawk, 15 June 2021 - 05:34 AM.

[legoboy0401]

12_inch_Hawk, on 14 June 2021 - 09:33 PM, said:

Working too well does not mean broken.  If you turn a light on and it shines brightly that doesn't mean it is turned off.  Those are opposites.  Here is another pair of opposites; better and worse.  You can't make a game better by making things worse so stop advocating for making things worse.  

Well, if there’s something too strong in the WoWP neighborhood, who ya gonna call if not the nerf hammer? A buff to every other plane in the overpowered plane’s MM bracket?