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First win = quitting?

quit quitter tier first mission bonus grind map disconnect

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legoboy0401 #21 Posted 02 May 2021 - 03:24 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 01 May 2021 - 10:39 AM, said:

People don't understand the genius of Sun Tzu when he says, "Don't fight battles that you know you can't win". Most people don't understand that this rule is from hundreds or thousands of years of fighting wars. This rule was passed down and perfected from master to student. Sun Tzu was just the first one to codify it and right it down that we know of. The key points are this:

 

1. It's a personal rule as individual as the person reading it.

2. It's situational.

3. It's information and skill dependent.

 

When I first started playing this game I bailed a lot. I did this because I "thought" the battle was hopeless. I didn't understand Sun Tzu correctly. He says don't fight battles that you KNOW you can't win. I was bailing on battles that I "thought" i couldn't win. I was wrong. So I asked tons of questions, watched videos, and took a ton of advice from people like SpirtFox and others (still do take the advice and thank you for offering it). So I learned to try harder and do more. I started winning more, but I would still bail on games too early. Now, it's almost certainly halfway into the battle before I bail. I never bail anymore just because someone else did. Heck, I've even won battles when two other people on my team bailed. But right now, I'm only a 60% recent win rate player. So even though I bail on battles that are, to me, certain losses, someone like Spirit might not think they are certain losses. Who's right? Well most likely he is. But that doesn't matter does it? Let me explain the genius of Sun Tsu and hundreds or thousands of years of war knowledge. 

 

Do you ever KNOW anything for certain? No, you don't. So how can Sun Tzu say don't fight battles that you know you can't win? Shouldn't you always try if you don't know?

 

The answer my friends is in the mind. If you THINK that you KNOW the battle is a certain loss then that's the reason you don't fight it. You are already defeated in your mind and that alone makes fighting the battle probably a loss. Sun Tzu is not wrong. If you "KNOW" that you are going to lose then that also means that you "Think" you are going to lose, which means, that in your mind you have already lost. This is the genius of Sun Tsu. So it doesn't matter if the battle is a certain win for Spirit. If I think it's a certain loss for me then I should bail on it.

 

So the problem is knowledge and skill. I need to continue to work on getting more knowledge and skill in this game and then maybe I will not 'KNOW" a battle is a loss when it really isn't if I played better. The struggle is trying to be as good a player as you can. This is what I have always continued to do and it is paying off. When I first came to this forum as a 45% player with less than 500 games everyone gave me nothing but crap. People still give me crap. But now, I am doing better than about 40% of the people who regularly post on this forum. Getting better is a process.

 

So don't get mad when people bail. They are doing the right thing for them. They simply may not understand what is winnable and what isn't. But it doesn't matter. If they believe that they know that it's a loss they should bail. That is the way.


Either my first or second Ki-88 match was like that. We should have lost but we capped every sector somehow, despite there only being 2 players per team, and we still won.
 


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

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Thorondar #22 Posted 02 May 2021 - 09:58 PM

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 Going by Sink_Stuff's logic: Anyone who gets put in a game with Sink_Stuff on the same side should just bail for the same reasons he is giving to Tee.  He says it is alright to do so by his weird logic and he has no soapbox to gripe at a player that bails on him, everyone do that to him and watch his attitude change.  Anyone who disagrees with him is automatically a troll (if that is the case I will wear the Troll badge with honor).

 

Tee gets my utmost respect (and a +1) as he has posted MULTIPLE times in this thread he is willing to bury the hatchet and wants to be friends and he keeps getting attacked by that person.  I can clearly see who is being an adult and who is acting like the toddler throwing a fit to his parents in the cereal isle of the grocery store.  Tee I will flight with you anytime.



Sink_Stuff #23 Posted 03 May 2021 - 12:20 PM

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View PostThorondar, on 02 May 2021 - 09:58 PM, said:

 Going by Sink_Stuff's logic: Anyone who gets put in a game with Sink_Stuff on the same side should just bail for the same reasons he is giving to Tee.  He says it is alright to do so by his weird logic and he has no soapbox to gripe at a player that bails on him, everyone do that to him and watch his attitude change.  Anyone who disagrees with him is automatically a troll (if that is the case I will wear the Troll badge with honor).

 

Tee gets my utmost respect (and a +1) as he has posted MULTIPLE times in this thread he is willing to bury the hatchet and wants to be friends and he keeps getting attacked by that person.  I can clearly see who is being an adult and who is acting like the toddler throwing a fit to his parents in the cereal isle of the grocery store.  Tee I will flight with you anytime.

 

I never attacked anyone. And if you don't know, people bail on me all the time and you are not the first person to tell everyone else to bail on me either. Just ask Captain about that. I never attacked Tee. Instead, what I did was I asked tee questions. Questions that he never actually answered BTW. I used him as an example. But he took it defensively as if I attacked him and the rest of you keep lying and claim that I attacked him. He was just an example and that is all. 



Ju4mpi #24 Posted 07 May 2021 - 12:00 AM

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Result "Win / Lose" should be personal, based on what you do on the battle.

Problem Solved.

If you want to just shoot things and dont care bout winning its ok. That way every1 get what they deserve.

 



trikke #25 Posted 14 May 2021 - 08:01 PM

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it's just a courtesy to both sides, really        leave or don't, but it's not like you're actually going to die, or get imprisoned, if you lose

 

2 red good pilots flighted together blinked out today, at the start       both better than me        they saw SFMY and dumped out, i'll assume 

 

our good friend farquare got shelled because of that selfish(?) act       i shouldn't call it selfish       maybe it's a "business decision" 

 

still      it seemed cheap        why click Start if you're not going to roll the dice?


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Wrongway_Conway #26 Posted 16 May 2021 - 12:08 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 01 May 2021 - 05:51 AM, said:

No pilot worth his salt would quit, regardless of reason. I take special pride in winning when teammates quit. Hopefully I make them lose their daily X 

 

But when all you are doing is grinding a daily with "The battle results only count if you win" and the red team has superiority super early (RNG is such that my blue bots got min. values, the red bots got max values) then it's "game over man" so you move on and not waste any more time. Of sure, there are the very rare times when you get lucky and can acquire superiority and come back to win. But that is < 5% of the time so most often it isn't worth hanging around for the inevitable loss. I don't like ramming but it's a part of this game. So bailing is similar. Wg has it on the menu so it's an option whether we like it or not.


You've got to grind, grind, grind...

Ju4mpi #27 Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:18 PM

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(double post)

Edited by Ju4mpi, 16 May 2021 - 02:21 PM.


Ju4mpi #28 Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:19 PM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 16 May 2021 - 12:08 PM, said:

 

But when all you are doing is grinding a daily with "The battle results only count if you win" and the red team has superiority super early (RNG is such that my blue bots got min. values, the red bots got max values) then it's "game over man" so you move on and not waste any more time. Of sure, there are the very rare times when you get lucky and can acquire superiority and come back to win. But that is < 5% of the time so most often it isn't worth hanging around for the inevitable loss. I don't like ramming but it's a part of this game. So bailing is similar. Wg has it on the menu so it's an option whether we like it or not.

You bail just cause someone kill you...

Last time i saw you in battle. 

Map middle cc, 2 plants etc.

We took the cc, (battle just started). I went to cap your plant (both plants where neutral yet).

You were there, i killed you.

And the chat started "Why did you do that, i was on my bussines BLA BLA BLA, and you quited".

... Short answer i was capping (you know when you kill a plane you got cap points...) Or you didnt learned that yet.



CorvusCorvax #29 Posted 16 May 2021 - 02:49 PM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 16 May 2021 - 12:08 PM, said:

 

But when all you are doing is grinding a daily with "The battle results only count if you win" and the red team has superiority super early (RNG is such that my blue bots got min. values, the red bots got max values) then it's "game over man" so you move on and not waste any more time. Of sure, there are the very rare times when you get lucky and can acquire superiority and come back to win. But that is < 5% of the time so most often it isn't worth hanging around for the inevitable loss. I don't like ramming but it's a part of this game. So bailing is similar. Wg has it on the menu so it's an option whether we like it or not.


What you're saying doesn't happen nearly as often as you say it does, except to people who don't know how to play.



Sink_Stuff #30 Posted 16 May 2021 - 03:26 PM

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Last night I bailed from another 2 games. I played about 30 though. So, I don't bail that often. 

 

However, once again it was completely clear that the other players on my team were garbage and the match was a certain loss. These are about the only games that I bail on now, not all but about 99%. And yes, they happen on the weekends more often obviously. It's just too frustrating to go against a flight of much better players and you know that you are the only person on the team even trying to win. As my brother in law, who is a VP at a large company says, "I don't waste time on losers". You shouldn't either.

 

One game against Corvis was a certain loss as my team kept spamming to take the center airfield and yet we had no planes to effectively do that. However, I tried and in my unspecialized P-80A I killed a specialized Yak-3RD three times in a row. After the first time I got him he got all bent out of shape and tried to head hunt me whenever he saw me, which is what ended up with me also trying to take him out whenever I saw him. Once again, a game is a total loss not just because my team was a bunch of fails who just completely yolod center cap without much thought, but because an enemy bent hurt player tried to revenge me the rest of the game. I should have bailed on that one, not because of the rage enemy troll, but simply because I was once again with garbage players who didn't even try to win, even thought they thought that was what they were doing.   

 

 

 

 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 16 May 2021 - 03:31 PM.


losttwo #31 Posted 16 May 2021 - 04:17 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 16 May 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

Last night I bailed from another 2 games. I played about 30 though. So, I don't bail that often. 

 

However, once again it was completely clear that the other players on my team were garbage and the match was a certain loss. These are about the only games that I bail on now, not all but about 99%. And yes, they happen on the weekends more often obviously. It's just too frustrating to go against a flight of much better players and you know that you are the only person on the team even trying to win. As my brother in law, who is a VP at a large company says, "I don't waste time on losers". You shouldn't either.

 

One game against Corvis was a certain loss as my team kept spamming to take the center airfield and yet we had no planes to effectively do that. However, I tried and in my unspecialized P-80A I killed a specialized Yak-3RD three times in a row. After the first time I got him he got all bent out of shape and tried to head hunt me whenever he saw me, which is what ended up with me also trying to take him out whenever I saw him. Once again, a game is a total loss not just because my team was a bunch of fails who just completely yolod center cap without much thought, but because an enemy bent hurt player tried to revenge me the rest of the game. I should have bailed on that one, not because of the rage enemy troll, but simply because I was once again with garbage players who didn't even try to win, even thought they thought that was what they were doing.   

 

 

 

 

 

It's your game, play it your way. 

It's your time to do what you want and how you want. 

You are not working for me and i am not paying $25 per hour to play for me. 

 

I do not agree with you but that is OK. 

 



CorvusCorvax #32 Posted 16 May 2021 - 05:01 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 16 May 2021 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

 

One game against Corvis   

 

 

 

 


*Corvus

Instead of hunting the one player on our team that was the least effective at capping, you should have been hunting me.  I got three caps out of that battle, and did a significant chunk of work after the squall line - which is really where you lost the battle.  There is no way my XP-72 can stand up to a P-80 in a straight up fight, so you had every advantage.  Then being dumb and playing in the middle after squall line, at the least consequential cap - you almost handed the battle to us.  You *could* have ignored that -3RD all battle long and he wouldn't have been able to do anything about it.
 

Your poor choices led to your team's loss, not anything else that happened.  I guess you should be glad I wasn't flying my P-82B.  :)



Sink_Stuff #33 Posted 16 May 2021 - 05:48 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 May 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:


*Corvus

Instead of hunting the one player on our team that was the least effective at capping, you should have been hunting me.  I got three caps out of that battle, and did a significant chunk of work after the squall line - which is really where you lost the battle.  There is no way my XP-72 can stand up to a P-80 in a straight up fight, so you had every advantage.  Then being dumb and playing in the middle after squall line, at the least consequential cap - you almost handed the battle to us.  You *could* have ignored that -3RD all battle long and he wouldn't have been able to do anything about it.
 

Your poor choices led to your team's loss, not anything else that happened.  I guess you should be glad I wasn't flying my P-82B.  :)

 

You are exactly right. What you didn't see though was that the clan players on my team were stupid and constantly spamming for everyone to get the central airfield. I knew right off that the game was a loss. As well, I don't go head hunting or grudge killing, even if the other player is some forum troll that constantly talks smack. I just play my game to win. However, these geniuses thought that we somehow had to have the central airfield the entire game and I knew there was nothing that I could do to fix that. Some clans constantly harp to people that they MUST have the central airfield because that's how you win. So the clan players on my team endlessly died trying to get the center cap even though they were in planes that couldn't fight the specialist Yak-3RD. So I went there and took him out three different times, giving them some kind of chance against the others. That just turned into some butt hurt guy trying to head hunt me all game. So, I wasn't trying to win that game. But I didn't bail on it because the fail clan players were at least trying to win (well pretending to win really), so, I kept taking out the Yak-3RD that was head hunting me and in their way. 

 

Some people latch on to some idea of how to win a map and they never let go of it. All we had to do was exactly what you did, try to cap everything BUT the central airfield. But they refused to see it any other way and kept spamming for me to help them. So I tried. I wish I could ban them from my games because they are people who refuse to ever think for themselves. But I can't. 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 16 May 2021 - 05:50 PM.


CorvusCorvax #34 Posted 16 May 2021 - 06:41 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 16 May 2021 - 05:48 PM, said:

 

 I kept taking out the Yak-3RD

Which, if you HAD NOT done, you might have won, in spite of your team mates.  I guess you missed that part.  You go ahead and let the -3RD spin in the middle while collecting the other four caps.  You had a fast LF, perfectly capable of taking CCs and garrisons.

It was not a loss at the start.  In fact, it should have been a win, except you yolo'd into the middle *even though you knew that it was the wrong strategy!*  And yes, you headhunt the player that can hurt you.  You don't leave them to do as they will, because then you get beat.  So, that's two wrong things, just off the top.

You lost the game for your team by pursuing the wrong strategy, period.



Sink_Stuff #35 Posted 17 May 2021 - 05:02 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 16 May 2021 - 06:41 PM, said:

Which, if you HAD NOT done, you might have won, in spite of your team mates.  I guess you missed that part.  You go ahead and let the -3RD spin in the middle while collecting the other four caps.  You had a fast LF, perfectly capable of taking CCs and garrisons.

It was not a loss at the start.  In fact, it should have been a win, except you yolo'd into the middle *even though you knew that it was the wrong strategy!*  And yes, you headhunt the player that can hurt you.  You don't leave them to do as they will, because then you get beat.  So, that's two wrong things, just off the top.

You lost the game for your team by pursuing the wrong strategy, period.

 

You don't understand. I knew exactly what I needed to do to win and I was doing it. Then, the human players in the clan started spamming and telling me to go to the central airfield. They did this because they had it in their minds that because I was the only light fighter on the team that it was my JOB to go get the central airfield. They refused to leave me alone about it. So, I stopped trying to win the game and did what the constant whiners demanded of me. Why do you think i am ranting right now about how most clans are not worth anything? Once again a pair of clan players want to try to tell someone how to play the game and they are completely wrong. So yeah, I let them lose the game by doing exactly what they demanded of me. And just to prove that I "Did my job" as they kept spamming, I killed off the enemy light fighter player who was constantly in the cap. But then, I left the center cap and started getting other caps. But then once again, they start spamming the central airfield. At that point, the Yak player got butt hurt and started hunting me down wherever he saw me.

 

I didn't lose that game. The fail clan players demanding that I fight for the central air base is what lost that game and I knew this the moment they started spamming it and telling me specifically to go there. 



Captain_Underpants53 #36 Posted 17 May 2021 - 05:18 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 17 May 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

 

You don't understand. I knew exactly what I needed to do to win and I was doing it. Then, the human players in the clan started spamming and telling me to go to the central airfield. They did this because they had it in their minds that because I was the only light fighter on the team that it was my JOB to go get the central airfield. They refused to leave me alone about it. So, I stopped trying to win the game and did what the constant whiners demanded of me. Why do you think i am ranting right now about how most clans are not worth anything? Once again a pair of clan players want to try to tell someone how to play the game and they are completely wrong. So yeah, I let them lose the game by doing exactly what they demanded of me. And just to prove that I "Did my job" as they kept spamming, I killed off the enemy light fighter player who was constantly in the cap. But then, I left the center cap and started getting other caps. But then once again, they start spamming the central airfield. At that point, the Yak player got butt hurt and started hunting me down wherever he saw me.

 

I didn't lose that game. The fail clan players demanding that I fight for the central air base is what lost that game and I knew this the moment they started spamming it and telling me specifically to go there. 

Based on the actions of a pair of clan members?!?!  Too funny!

 

:facepalm:


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Sink_Stuff #37 Posted 17 May 2021 - 05:31 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 17 May 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

Based on the actions of a pair of clan members?!?!  Too funny!

 

:facepalm:

 

That's not all. You have someone from your sister clan asking about the J8M and yet no one from either clan has offered to actually help him with this plane. Not even you who claims to be so good at this game and so knowledgeable about it. I wonder why no one has bothered to help the new player. Hmmmm. 



Captain_Underpants53 #38 Posted 17 May 2021 - 06:54 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 17 May 2021 - 12:31 AM, said:

 

That's not all. You have someone from your sister clan asking about the J8M and yet no one from either clan has offered to actually help him with this plane. Not even you who claims to be so good at this game and so knowledgeable about it. I wonder why no one has bothered to help the new player. Hmmmm. 

Even more funny, if infantile.  I couldn't help anyone with that thing.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  (LOOK!  MY HMMMMMM IS LONGER THAN YOUR HMMMMM)

 

:child:


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losttwo #39 Posted 17 May 2021 - 08:59 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 17 May 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

 

You don't understand. I knew exactly what I needed to do to win and I was doing it. THEN YOU E SHOULD HAVDONE IT

 

Then, the human players in the clan started spamming and telling me to go to the central airfield. They did this because they had it in their minds that because I was the only light fighter on the team that it was my JOB to go get the central airfield.

You are going to allow other players to dictate how you play your game ? Sounds weak. Please see first line of your statement

 

They refused to leave me alone about it. Ever try to ignore people that know less than you

So, I stopped trying to win the game and did what the constant whiners demanded of me. LEAD FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY

Why do you think i am ranting right now Because you gave in and did what they wanted you to do and stopped doing what you KNEW would win the game and make them look like fools. Instead you made yourself look like a fool

 about how most clans are not worth anything? Once again a pair of clan players want to try to tell someone how to play the game and they are completely wrong. If they are completely wrong then why did you follow their instruction

 

 So yeah, I let them lose the game by doing exactly what they demanded of me. And just to prove that I "Did my job" as they kept spamming, I killed off the enemy light fighter player who was constantly in the cap. But then, I left the center cap and started getting other caps. But then once again, they start spamming the central airfield. At that point, the Yak player got butt hurt and started hunting me down wherever he saw me.

 

I didn't lose that game. The fail clan players demanding that I fight for the central air base is what lost that game and I knew this the moment they started spamming it and telling me specifically to go there.

SO, WOW. You really believe you are not at fault and want to blame everyone else like a child would. Johnny told me to jump off the bridge

 

The problem with the world today is that far to many people want to cast blame and avoid personal responsibility. 

The guilt causes immature responses of anger, fits of rage and eventually heart attacks, 

I am not even going to mention that this is a game. I am sure there is a <1% chance of a fellow player coming to your door

to beat you up for not following his direction or " causing him to lose the game".

 

Tactically your error was fighting a red furball outnumbered, Not telling the others they are outnumbered, 

That is a very good reason to flight with someone. Make it 2 to 1 odds and someone watch your tail. 



CorvusCorvax #40 Posted 17 May 2021 - 02:11 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 17 May 2021 - 05:02 AM, said:

 

You don't understand. I knew exactly what I needed to do to win and I was doing it. Then, the human players in the clan started spamming and telling me to go to the central airfield. They did this because they had it in their minds that because I was the only light fighter on the team that it was my JOB to go get the central airfield. They refused to leave me alone about it. So, I stopped trying to win the game and did what the constant whiners demanded of me. Why do you think i am ranting right now about how most clans are not worth anything? Once again a pair of clan players want to try to tell someone how to play the game and they are completely wrong. So yeah, I let them lose the game by doing exactly what they demanded of me. And just to prove that I "Did my job" as they kept spamming, I killed off the enemy light fighter player who was constantly in the cap. But then, I left the center cap and started getting other caps. But then once again, they start spamming the central airfield. At that point, the Yak player got butt hurt and started hunting me down wherever he saw me.

 

I didn't lose that game. The fail clan players demanding that I fight for the central air base is what lost that game and I knew this the moment they started spamming it and telling me specifically to go there. 


Oh, I *do* understand.

You did dumb stuff in game and and lost.  I also understand you're now trying to blame your doing dumb stuff in game on someone else.

Only a child cannot admit mistakes.






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