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Explain again why Wg thinks we like high randomness?

high RNG unbalanced

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Wrongway_Conway #1 Posted 06 April 2021 - 12:13 PM

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I know this is what WoWP is but does anyone have a clear explanation for this:

 

Lighthouse map shutout

 

I know my human teammate did well and on the other team one player bailed before the battle started (0 score). But a total shutout on a tier 8 five sector map? Seriously? After I crashed due to lag I went to the uncontested mine (no plane had gone to it yet) and had a way too easy time (no bots came) of ground target destruction for capturing it but that just made this a super boring battle. I probably could have won this one in my sleep.

 

So why does this happen if I'm totally wrong about the bots and clueless about the AI (as Losttwo and others keep telling me)? With only 2 humans per side can a loss of one human and an ineffective 2nd player really cause the bots to not be able to capture a single sector? Usually the red team bombers are at one mine working to capture it but not this time. Anyone have any logical (non-troll) explanation/theory on this (other than high rng of the bot flight parameters/variables leads to super unbalanced sides and I got the good side of the rng this time {must not say good or bad bots, that will elicit LOLs and other "you don't have a clue dude" responses})?

 

I do admit that I don't understand the AI code at all if I can go from a blowout loss in the previous battle in my Me 265 and then this happens in the next battle with my IL-20. 


Edited by Wrongway_Conway, 06 April 2021 - 12:18 PM.

You've got to grind, grind, grind...

trikke #2 Posted 06 April 2021 - 01:29 PM

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just the way the dice rolled that particular time       does that help?

 

other in-depth discussions will just drive us all crazy       

 

enjoy the random


Edited by trikke, 06 April 2021 - 01:29 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore       

CorvusCorvax #3 Posted 06 April 2021 - 01:30 PM

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Can you please explain to me why you need to start a whole new topic EVERY time you want to cry about this?

Can't you just add a post onto an existing topic you started about this exact same issue?

WhoaBlackBetty #4 Posted 06 April 2021 - 01:57 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 06 April 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Can you please explain to me why you need to start a whole new topic EVERY time you want to cry about this?

Can't you just add a post onto an existing topic you started about this exact same issue?

Yeah, had to reblock him.


De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
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Wrongway_Conway #5 Posted 06 April 2021 - 01:59 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 06 April 2021 - 01:30 PM, said:

Can you please explain to me why you need to start a whole new topic EVERY time you want to cry about this?

Can't you just add a post onto an existing topic you started about this exact same issue?

 

No because most will ignore the old topic (old thread) and secondly I've never gotten any satisfactory explanations about what the server AI is doing (logical or illogical) to make battles go to extremes this way on which side captures sectors. Too many dismissive troll type of responses.

 

The main reason for this is not to get muted by Wg for flaming here (that doesn't work) but to see if anyone can provide any clear understanding as to why the battles are so wildly lopsided like this. The best enjoyment of flying here is not just winning all the time but when the battles are pretty even between the sides and I have to be on my best game in order to win. AFK wins are super boring (Yawn!!!) and blowout losses are just frustrating want to bail out of battles. I can go from ace battles and a slew of medals to nothing in the next battle. No one has put up any theories (other than rng is rng is rng... blah, blah, blah) that make any sense of it. If the answer is it that it is the crazy high rng factor then so be it but that's a shame if that is the only reason. The "git gud" players can not win all the time and when you are on the losing side because of the rng there isn't much as a pilot I can do to turn the tide of the battle. There is only so much I can do and if I/we don't have a clue as to why the AI is ignoring the mines (as in my specific battle) but at other times will attack them like their life depended on it then I can't improve on the strategy part of this game because I'm in the dark on what the AI code is doing. I need more help to understand (if possible) the AI code in order to improve my win ratio. Has anyone made an in depth video on the server AI logic or are we all in the dark on this?   


You've got to grind, grind, grind...

Captain_Underpants53 #6 Posted 06 April 2021 - 02:43 PM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 06 April 2021 - 08:59 AM, said:

 

No because most will ignore the old topic (old thread) and secondly I've never gotten any satisfactory explanations about what the server AI is doing (logical or illogical) to make battles go to extremes this way on which side captures sectors. Too many dismissive troll type of responses.

 

The main reason for this is not to get muted by Wg for flaming here (that doesn't work) but to see if anyone can provide any clear understanding as to why the battles are so wildly lopsided like this. The best enjoyment of flying here is not just winning all the time but when the battles are pretty even between the sides and I have to be on my best game in order to win. AFK wins are super boring (Yawn!!!) and blowout losses are just frustrating want to bail out of battles. I can go from ace battles and a slew of medals to nothing in the next battle. No one has put up any theories (other than rng is rng is rng... blah, blah, blah) that make any sense of it. If the answer is it that it is the crazy high rng factor then so be it but that's a shame if that is the only reason. The "git gud" players can not win all the time and when you are on the losing side because of the rng there isn't much as a pilot I can do to turn the tide of the battle. There is only so much I can do and if I/we don't have a clue as to why the AI is ignoring the mines (as in my specific battle) but at other times will attack them like their life depended on it then I can't improve on the strategy part of this game because I'm in the dark on what the AI code is doing. I need more help to understand (if possible) the AI code in order to improve my win ratio. Has anyone made an in depth video on the server AI logic or are we all in the dark on this?   

You are absolutely correct!  The bots are out to get us because the First Law of Robotics has been rescinded!  We all need to quit! (you first)

 

:bajan:


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CorvusCorvax #7 Posted 06 April 2021 - 03:26 PM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 06 April 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

 

No because most will ignore the old topic (old thread) and secondly I've never gotten any satisfactory explanations 

I really hope you're not really this clueless.  New posts in any topic bump that topic to the top.

 

And you seem to be working on your third nym to get a forum ban.  Your posts on this issue are repetitive and non productive, which is contrary to the TOU.  The reason you don't get answers is because you are dead wrong on the topic.

 

Your lack of skill in the game does not equate to a programming issue.

 

The only person in the dark here is you.  



losttwo #8 Posted 06 April 2021 - 03:32 PM

    which way do we go?

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If you are experiencing a high level of randomness then you obviously have learned nothing.

It is your job to overcome the randomness by learning how to fly your planes effectavely

towards the win.



WhoaBlackBetty #9 Posted 06 April 2021 - 03:56 PM

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You keep adding this "we" in your posts as if you actually represent someone else, or enough to mean something. You don't, it doesn't.

De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
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Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 06 April 2021 - 04:05 PM

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:medal::medal::medal:

 

Well said, all three of you.   I have got to remember to set up that cheese and cracker franchise!  I'll clean up!


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 06 April 2021 - 04:11 PM.

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legoboy0401 #11 Posted 06 April 2021 - 05:39 PM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 06 April 2021 - 04:13 AM, said:

I know this is what WoWP is but does anyone have a clear explanation for this:

 

Lighthouse map shutout

 

I know my human teammate did well and on the other team one player bailed before the battle started (0 score). But a total shutout on a tier 8 five sector map? Seriously? After I crashed due to lag I went to the uncontested mine (no plane had gone to it yet) and had a way too easy time (no bots came) of ground target destruction for capturing it but that just made this a super boring battle. I probably could have won this one in my sleep.

 

So why does this happen if I'm totally wrong about the bots and clueless about the AI (as Losttwo and others keep telling me)? With only 2 humans per side can a loss of one human and an ineffective 2nd player really cause the bots to not be able to capture a single sector? Usually the red team bombers are at one mine working to capture it but not this time. Anyone have any logical (non-troll) explanation/theory on this (other than high rng of the bot flight parameters/variables leads to super unbalanced sides and I got the good side of the rng this time {must not say good or bad bots, that will elicit LOLs and other "you don't have a clue dude" responses})?

 

I do admit that I don't understand the AI code at all if I can go from a blowout loss in the previous battle in my Me 265 and then this happens in the next battle with my IL-20. 

 

Why do YOU think WE like you? Pretty much everyone here doesn't! It'd be one thing if you made productive posts, but you never seem to. I appreciate that you feel like the game is against you, but it isn't, trust me, and also, saying that it is, over and over and over, is a good way to get a forum ban, just ask hamhockjones. Oh wait, YOU CAN'T, because HE got a forum ban for the very same thing, and now you can only talk to him in game.


Edited by legoboy0401, 06 April 2021 - 05:39 PM.

An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

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#Givingupneveris


losttwo #12 Posted 06 April 2021 - 06:04 PM

    which way do we go?

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Do you need proof that the problem is you and not the game:

 Going by your top planes and matching mine

I-17             average per sortie       you: 3.36       me 4.89

BF 109 E                                                3.59             3.80

SM Spit XIV                                           3.45             4.14

SM Spit V                                               2.73             4.23

Bristol 146                                              3.03             4.53

 

That is your top 5 most selected fighters

 

And do not try to say it is all about the difference between solo and flight play. 

You should be doing higher per sortie regardless. 

By the way I am 90% solo pilot. Rarely will you see me in a flight. 

 

 



losttwo #13 Posted 06 April 2021 - 06:10 PM

    which way do we go?

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let me add insult to injury 

Battle count : you / me

 609 /  217

378 /  62

386 / 80

321 / 33

289 / 123



WhoaBlackBetty #14 Posted 06 April 2021 - 06:32 PM

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oops

Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 07 April 2021 - 04:06 PM.

De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
J311yfish: " 'Seal clubbing' and 'head hunting' are an inseparable part of the competitive nature of the game, and both provide a valuable service."
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legoboy0401 #15 Posted 06 April 2021 - 07:11 PM

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View PostWhoaBlackBetty, on 06 April 2021 - 10:32 AM, said:

 

Get a clue Marco.

 

L2P. GitGud.

 

I'm not Marco, LOL. But yes, he does need to make productive posts for a change.


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


Corsair4790805 #16 Posted 06 April 2021 - 08:15 PM

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Why was I not surprised when I saw the title of this thread that the creator was Marko?

 

10 bots per team in that battle.

5 sectors on the map.

 

20 programmed entities fighting for 5 sectors, throw in 4 humans who can be much more random, and you're still thinking that there is some sort of super bot Algorithm out there that gets assigned to one team and the other team gets the incompetent bots.

 

Have you ever taken a look at the individual bot's performances post game? 

 

Maybe red was more successful in intercepting and shooting down blue bots. 

Maybe you and the other human on Blue issued conflicting orders to bots, and last in takes precedence.

Maybe an order given to a bot, like F3 or F7, pulled a bot off a more important target.

Maybe the map was asymmetrical and some sectors were a longer haul than others, despite being more important.

And so on.

 

My point is - 24 moving parts, 20 operating under a pre-determined set of conditions, fighting to capture and maintain 5 sectors - it's not going to turn out the same way every time.   Throw in varying skill levels of the human players, their understanding of how to win the battle, and even the type of map and no two battles are going to play out the same.

 

The environment of WoWP is pretty well understood by the experienced players here.   The successful ones have learned how to maximize the advantages and minimize the disadvantages.   The bot AI is what it is - understand it and use it to your advantage.  

 

L2P.

Git Gud.

 

Or continue to focus on your perception that the AI and RNG is stacked against the players to deprive them of enjoyment.   That will probably be as effective as stepping off a cliff and telling yourself gravity doesn't exist all the way down.   You're still going to hit the ground at 9.8 meters/per second squared.



Lose_dudes #17 Posted 07 April 2021 - 03:26 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 06 April 2021 - 02:43 PM, said:

You are absolutely correct!  The bots are out to get us because the First Law of Robotics has been rescinded!  We all need to quit! (you first)

 

:bajan:

xkcd: The Three Laws of Robotics


Edited by Lose_dudes, 07 April 2021 - 03:28 PM.

Destroyers? In my day, we only had torpedo boats!

WhoaBlackBetty #18 Posted 07 April 2021 - 04:06 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 06 April 2021 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

I'm not Marco, LOL. But yes, he does need to make productive posts for a change.

Ack, no you are not Marco, no idea what I was looking at. Deleting that post!


De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
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