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Mouse Control: follow a carrot on a stick ! no thx


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Arkanor #21 Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:22 AM

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Freelancer comes to mind as best mouse-flying control scheme. You never have to keep sliding your mouse off the pad and you can have a clear vector of where your plane is going.

I'll still use the stick, always have.

CaptainFranklen #22 Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:18 PM

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View PostErazor, on 05 June 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

This game is unflyable with the mouse in it's current state.
Im a good pilot on BF3, and Im using the exact same configuration as BF3 for controls in WoWP but those planes are uncontrollable.
The weirdest thing is that green vector+dot. You dont control your plane, you make it follow a carrot on a stick which gives a terrible sensation of laggyness and unprecision.
I don't know who had this terrible idea but you need to get rid of that garbage, or at least give us the possibility of controlling our plane like in BF3 with the mouse.
We want our mouse to "be" the plane and respond to it's movement immediatly, not this horrible thing you invented.

im not flying again untill this is fixed.

I fly just fine. I just had to spend some time practicing. It's amazing how many people have the attitude, "I can't master it in 10 minutes? It must be crap!"

amade #23 Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:42 AM

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Last time I played (while game was still in Alpha) we had the Shooter Mouse setting where the mouse controlled Yaw but didn't control Roll unless a modifier key was pressed. I liked that setting. So I'm putting my 2 cents here saying I want it back, because I can't use Joystick no matter how I tweak it in-game or using external tweakers (too laggy for joystick) while the current mouse setting is irritating because it won't let me control my roll with precision and when I want to yaw only slightly it insists on rolling the aircraft. Using keyboard to yaw is not precise enough so I end up yawing left and right to compensate.

Please, please, please, bring back the Shooter Mouse setting!

RynoSuperman #24 Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:32 PM

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View PostCaptainFranklen, on 03 July 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

I fly just fine. I just had to spend some time practicing. It's amazing how many people have the attitude, "I can't master it in 10 minutes? It must be crap!"

10 mins? i played over 50 battles and it still suks.

Controls are everything in this game, and if you cannot pickup and play effectively immediately, then majority of people will not play. Dunno about you, but i dont want to play a niche or cult game, i want it as popular as WOT.

sydd #25 Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:01 PM

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yepp i just checked the game and the first major issue for me was flying that plane straight, let alone shooting the enemy, half the time i spent turning and balancing my plane, if the mouse would be the plane, it'd make things a lot simpler, also the keyboard settings are a wee bit complicated
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Kamatay #26 Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:09 AM

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There the controls thats need more options like super arcade type were you can fly the planes in just two to 3 games instead of spending every game trying to understand how it reacts, The controls i suggest is just like the flight combat games "Heroes of the Pacific" "Pearl Harbour" zero hour, "Attack on Pearl Harbour" etc,I highly enjoyed those flight sim arcade games, no frills just concentrating on arial combat. gamesJust an option and ofcourse full Flight Simulator option for the Hardcore flyers.

On the current state, were you have to wrestle the controls (ive tried all available configuration) just to keep the plane goes wherever I want, Im afraid the game wont be user friendly enough just like WOT to be a massively successfull game. I can see, if the current control config/feel continues even on the opening, lots of waiting players will be dissappointed and frustrated enough to put the game on the "shelve" until a more easy/super arcade control systems works were you can concentrate on the dogfight easily.

Well im going back to practicing the current configuration untill i master it i might change some of this report. But currently this WOWp is Not for the average Joe for now who doesnt have the patience and TIME to play hundreds of games just to master the controls.

sydd #27 Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:19 AM

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kamatay, i fully agree with you, they should have better control system... :/ and soon

Bibidibop #28 Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:14 PM

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I have absolutely no trouble with the current mouse control. Yes, Battlefield controls are more plane like, but I feel that is what an actual stick is for. On the other hand, I have no issue with BF style flight control being an option.

It's been a long time since I played any Battlefield games so here are two ways it could work, but if they haven't been described, here's my attempt. Move the mouse Right, 1 cm, and the plane control surfaces tilt a few degrees, causing a slow continuous roll to the right. Stop moving and the plane maintains that roll. Same for Left. Move the mouse Forward, and it noses down in the same way, at a rate variable by the mouse which is continuous if the mouse remains in place. Centering the controls involves centering the mouse, and to facilitate that are two bars on the HUD, one for L/R and another for Up/Down. They're centered when they cross in the center of the HUD.

Alternatively, you could have a system where you move 1 cm Right, and the plane rolls 10 degrees right, but stops rolling if the mouse stops moving. That requires repeated lift and drag of the mouse for long rolls, but offers more stability. However, the previous scheme is closer to stick flight.

Edited by Bibidibop, 20 July 2012 - 11:15 PM.


ZeroNiner #29 Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:00 PM

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Anybody remember freelancer? They had a pretty good mouse control setup. Might be salvageable for this game. Although there might be some issues, as in freelancer there was noch such thing as a barrel roll...

Sand_Ghost #30 Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:10 AM

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i actually like playing with the mouse and keyboard its hard for anyone to hit me


smiith #31 Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:53 PM

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agree, controls for mouse settings is shit right now!
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FrostedRon #32 Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

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I've only tried a few player matches/bot games and of course the tutorial but I have a hard time trying to fly because the controls feel slow,unresponsive, and messy. When I move the mouse I expect the plane to move with it to the best of its ability but currently it feels like my mouse is dragging a tow-line around and the plane is slowing following behind on a rope. I feel this game could benefit greatly from tighter flying mechanics like in many flight simulators or from Battlefield2/3,like suggested by many others on this form; if something isn't changed in the way the planes fly I can only assume that this game won't achieve the success of  World of Tanks based only on the sloppy controls.

Monte211 #33 Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:52 AM

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Please stop saying BF2/3 are the ideal controls for a plane game.   BF was terrible because the actual range given to planes was so limited in the sky, which is why you could turn/dive on a dime. I don't find the controls that bad at all, but if you are going to look elsewhere for ideas on control then Combat flight Simulator from MS was great or perhaps il-sturmovik (sp?).

Joker21SRB #34 Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

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View PostErazor, on 05 June 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

This game is unflyable with the mouse in it's current state.
Im a good pilot on BF3, and Im using the exact same configuration as BF3 for controls in WoWP but those planes are uncontrollable.
The weirdest thing is that green vector+dot. You dont control your plane, you make it follow a carrot on a stick which gives a terrible sensation of laggyness and unprecision.
I don't know who had this terrible idea but you need to get rid of that garbage, or at least give us the possibility of controlling our plane like in BF3 with the mouse.
We want our mouse to "be" the plane and respond to it's movement immediatly, not this horrible thing you invented.

im not flying again untill this is fixed.

As much as the term "BF3 controls" annoys me, I completely agree that controls are, pretty much, rubbish.
Some of my thoughts:

-Many flight simulators [please, don't rage on me because I'm comparing this to simulators] are completely flyable via keyboard only. In WoWp, controls have a certain delay [I'd say 0.3-0.5 of a second] which might not sound like much, but i think many would agree, it makes flying [not to talk about aiming] so frustrating.

-The "vector+dot" system can be usable for someone new to this kind of games, but it just doesn't feel right.. It very much is, as said by Erazor, just like making a plane follow a carrot on a stick. It isn't flying, it's telling the game what you would like the plane to do and it will use ailerons and rudder to achieve that [and, for some reason, always trying to keep the plane level with the horizon when you stop moving the mouse. It's okay as an option, but not realistic and it would be nice if you could disable that]. It reminds me of Freelancer in which a similar system worked quite good, but it didn't use rudder to follow the mouse so it just rolled and pitched [which was quite good as it made the mouse function as a stick would in a plane and you use the keyboard for the rudder separately]. Also, the mouse didn't slowly return to the center of the screen which didn't force you to constantly move the mouse if you want to keep turning [as it currently does in WoWp].

-Using the control settings to enable horizontal inverting kinda works okay if you want to make the controls more like other flying games, but the "Vector+dot" is quite confusing [so an option to make it invisible would be nice] and, as i mentioned earlier, the dot keeps coming back to the center of the screen, forcing you to constantly move the mouse to do even the simplest turns.

PS:Also tried using a gamepad, but as i am completely rubbish with it, i don't think the results of that test are credible, but when played with a joystick/gamepad, I didn't notice the delay between moving a controller and the in-game response. That is certainly a good thing for people who play using joysticks, but i hope that delay get's eliminated before the 1.0 version. Many people will use joysticks, but I'm sure a lot more won't and will lose interest to keep playing after struggling with this issue for a few battles.

Thank you for your time :]

Eon_Drake #35 Posted 09 August 2012 - 05:05 PM

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i agree with joker. the controls do need work, but what seems to keep being over looked is that the game is still in beta. so, some things are going to need a bit of work.

as for stick/gamepad VS. keybord, I would love it if the game could be played smoothly on the keybord even if most other flight games require a joystick. as for attracting other players, many people will mostlikly try the game due to the succsess of WoT, but requiering a joystick might be a bit of a turn off.

do away completly with carrot-on-a-stick and make it where the mechanics are tighter and more responsive, make the game completly playable with the keybord, and we might get somewhere.

Joker21SRB #36 Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:46 PM

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I know it's still a beta :] that's why it's good if we say here what we think and hope some of the dev's see it and fix it.

It probably is in their best interest to make it completely playable with keyboard, keyboard/mouse. Yes, many people will always say that you should have a joystick for this game, but i doubt that more than a quarter of the people that want to play it will actually have a joystick. I agree, REQUIRING a joystick would be a monumental mistake. The game would probably have too little players, thus nonprofitable for further development [AKA it might stop being updated quite soon after launch]. :/

Hmm.. i probably wrote everything i did in the previous post :P but all in all, i agree, and i hope it will get sorted out soon. I'm a bit concerned that the game exists for a year [as far as i know, the early alpha began around august last year] and the controls are still like this. It's probably quite fiddly to make them just right, so i wish them luck and fingers crossed. It would be sad if that ruins a game that could be as great or greater than WoT.

billy1928 #37 Posted 09 August 2012 - 11:47 PM

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this problem is not just with the mouse but with joystick as well (I have 3D pro) it is probably that all the turns are done server side. i just wish WG gave us an explanation considering the amount of threads on this.

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ApathyCurve #38 Posted 13 August 2012 - 06:50 PM

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View PostKamatay, on 13 July 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

Well im going back to practicing the current configuration untill i master it i might change some of this report. But currently this WOWp is Not for the average Joe for now who doesnt have the patience and TIME to play hundreds of games just to master the controls.

This is my primary concern with the long-term viablity of this game, and has been since early alpha.  World of Tanks appeals to a large number of people because of the intuitive controls and gentle learning curve, where WoWP has neither of those things.

To an extent, that's inherent in the fact that you're moving in three dimensions rather than two, but it also has to do with the basic design of the mouse controls.  While it's possible to fly pretty well with the mouse, as others have said it takes practice.  It took me about fifty games to really get the feel for flying a fighter with the mouse, (bombers are a no-brainer).  However, I would point out that I've been playing flight simulators for thirty years, starting with SubLogic Flight Simulator on the Apple ][ all those years ago, and I am a licensed VFR pilot, so the learning curve was considerably less steep for me.  I can easily see where the "average Joe" would be pulling his hair out after a few minutes of playing the part of a ruptured duck in a shooting gallery.

If it were just a question of whether *I* personally can deal with the mouse control scheme, it wouldn't be a big deal.  But I'm very much afraid that a lot of the potential player base (i.e., WoT players) will have exactly the sort of negative reaction we're seeing among many of the beta testers:  "This sucks.  I'm gonna go do something else."

A solution is needed, Wargaming.  I realize you've gimped the response curve so joystick players can't dominate the game, and I understand that approach.  Hell, I even agree with it to an extent.  But the mouse control scheme as it currently stands is very hostile to new users.  How good it becomes after it's mastered is irrelevant, because if you're losing two out of three players to frustration before they can master the controls, WoWP will be a very short-lived project that never lives up to the expectations set by its older sibling.

And while I'm on the subject, could you offer an option to invert the "carrot on a stick," please?  I fly with inverted mouse (pull back for climb, push forward for dive) and the little circle and line should, to me, represent the position of the stick.  Or, as others have asked, simply provide check box to turn it off; I can do without it.
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Demonocolips #39 Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:03 PM

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carrot on a rubberband yes.
played some good sims and bad sims and the controls definitively need to be tightened up a great deal.

xcanukx #40 Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:39 AM

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The control lag seems to be present on both my 360 controller and my Thrustmaster joystick. Its not as noticable with the mouse, but for some reason the mouse controls just feel odd to me.




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