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What if the US Navy planes actually had to fight in Europe?

Corsair Hellcat Bf 109 G Fw 190 A-5

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wylleEcoyote #1 Posted 25 January 2021 - 09:15 PM

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A deep dive into the technical aspects of how these planes match up.  
its not short so grab a snack and a cup of coffee before you sit down for this.  

Gregs YT channel is chock full of other useful videos about many warbirds.  
Odds are that one of your favorites is in his play list. 
He REALLY gets in depth. His series about the P-47 and Fw 190 are both about al long as the avengers movies.  


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092/1101, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1/2/3, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire I/Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3, La-5
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40/51A, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
Skua, Hurricane I/II/D, Tornado, TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/8R2/D, Me 109 TL, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: F5F, P-38 F/J, XP-58/75P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, BV P.203, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, All zeGermans, Wirraway
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


Corsair4790805 #2 Posted 25 January 2021 - 09:32 PM

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I seem to recall some RN Corsairs going up against Bf 109s, but that could just be a figment of my imagination.

 

F4Fs (actually F4Ms I believe) did see action in the Atlantic, but they were flying of jeep carriers in the ASW role.

 



CamuMahubah #3 Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:33 PM

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I will have to watch this tonight after work.  

 

 



losttwo #4 Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:34 PM

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wylleEcoyote #5 Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:46 PM

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View PostCorsair4790805, on 25 January 2021 - 04:32 PM, said:

I seem to recall some RN Corsairs going up against Bf 109s, but that could just be a figment of my imagination.

 

F4Fs (actually F4Ms I believe) did see action in the Atlantic, but they were flying of jeep carriers in the ASW role.

 



Apparently that did happen exactly one time. It gets mentioned in the video.


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092/1101, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1/2/3, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire I/Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3, La-5
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40/51A, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
Skua, Hurricane I/II/D, Tornado, TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/8R2/D, Me 109 TL, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: F5F, P-38 F/J, XP-58/75P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, BV P.203, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, All zeGermans, Wirraway
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


qu33kKC #6 Posted 26 January 2021 - 01:14 PM

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I vaguely remember a Martlet  (RN F4F) surprising the heck out of a German pilot who thought he'd safely dived away.  The Wildcat was still on his tail and coming hard.  The German comment was if the pilot was a better shot, he'd have been in trouble, but he managed to evade and escape.  I'm not even sure WHERE that anecdote is from, somewhere in my library.

 

also, a BIG +1 for Greg's channel, it can be technical, but I've understood some things from his vids that I've never really grokked before.



CamuMahubah #7 Posted 26 January 2021 - 01:47 PM

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R.I.P. to the brave men who died in the skies on all sides.  We often think of the machines when it's tanks or planes we wonder about from that era but gallant young men died at the controls.  Terrible deaths in full on panic adrenaline mode.  Can you imagine the horror of being on fire and having to jump at extreme altitudes?

 

 



Jaguardian #8 Posted 26 January 2021 - 06:34 PM

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View PostCamuMahubah, on 26 January 2021 - 07:47 AM, said:

R.I.P. to the brave men who died in the skies on all sides.

 

I take issue with this statement.  Just because someone is brave, doesn't make them good.  Some brave people on one side caused the deaths of good people on the other side.  Just saying.



qu33kKC #9 Posted 26 January 2021 - 08:02 PM

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whelp, that was eye-glazing in parts, but I watched it thru.  I'm somewhat surprised that the Hellcat compared as well as it did, I would have expected the lower speed to be more of an issue.  Props to Greg for putting in the copious research that he does.  :honoring:

CamuMahubah #10 Posted 27 January 2021 - 02:32 AM

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View PostJaguardian, on 26 January 2021 - 06:34 PM, said:

I take issue with this statement.  Just because someone is brave, doesn't make them good.  Some brave people on one side caused the deaths of good people on the other side.  Just saying.

 

If I questioned you diligently enough I'm sure I could find a group you think was gallant that I disagree with.  R.I.P. to the good men then if that makes you feel better.  I was more speaking to fact that we see the machines but forget about the beating hearts that were stopped that did not have time to seek redemption.



Corsair4790805 #11 Posted 27 January 2021 - 02:48 AM

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View PostCamuMahubah, on 26 January 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

 

If I questioned you diligently enough I'm sure I could find a group you think was gallant that I disagree with.  R.I.P. to the good men then if that makes you feel better.  I was more speaking to fact that we see the machines but forget about the beating hearts that were stopped that did not have time to seek redemption.

 

My father was a WWII veteran (USN).  I once asked him, when I was young, if he ever saw an enemy ship sink.  He said he had.  I then asked him if he felt happy.

 

His answer has stayed with me to this day, some 40 or so years after I asked the question - "No, I was sad.  They were men doing their duty to their country, just like me."

 

War is an ugly business - an example of man's inhumanity to his fellow man.   I think we can honor those who served, regardless of the nation they served, while understanding that the governments may have been corrupt, and that some who donned uniforms were evil, vile human beings.

 

No country's hands are 100% clean in war - even mine, the US of A.

 



Captain_Underpants53 #12 Posted 27 January 2021 - 03:02 AM

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View PostCorsair4790805, on 26 January 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

 

My father was a WWII veteran (USN).  I once asked him, when I was young, if he ever saw an enemy ship sink.  He said he had.  I then asked him if he felt happy.

 

His answer has stayed with me to this day, some 40 or so years after I asked the question - "No, I was sad.  They were men doing their duty to their country, just like me."

 

War is an ugly business - an example of man's inhumanity to his fellow man.   I think we can honor those who served, regardless of the nation they served, while understanding that the governments may have been corrupt, and that some who donned uniforms were evil, vile human beings.

 

No country's hands are 100% clean in war - even mine, the US of A.

 

Very well said!

 

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