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What is 'unfair' in WoWP?

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WhoaBlackBetty #41 Posted 28 October 2020 - 03:00 PM

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"F(a)<F(b)

F(a)>F(b)"

This is not so when human pilots of different skils and objectives become part of the equation, and even then the odds are not a surety.

 

Skill(1) = skill.  Skill(2) = <Skill(1)

 F(a) x Skill(1) > F(b) x Skill(2) 

Now:

W(1) = Pilot's goal is to win

O(1), O(2), O(3), O(4), O(5), O(6), O(7) = Pilot's goal is something other than winning, points(1), exp(2), silver(3), aerial kills(4), GT kills(5), AA kills(6), etc(7)

Litter in on either side of the equation the goals of the pilots, just randomly which is how it is in public battles, and the inequality sign in the middle will explode.  There can be no fairness, there can be no perfect MM.  There is only the knowledge that you have no knowledge of what you are about to face. Fair, the "f" word, has little place here,  This is not Fairy Balls where you play nice.  This is pixel war where you must win objectives.

 

To offset the complete unsurety of what is thrown at you when you hit "Battle", we have tools to just attempt to get a handle on the equation.  One of these tools is flights F(1), another is split-tier flights F(2).  Another is an OP plane K(1) (if the pilot can make that happen.)  There are other tools to use.  Now, take these variables and throw several on each side. Luck widdat.

 

A tool that is not helpful at all is complainingTherefore, here is another forumla:

 

WoWP happiness = L2P + Git Gud.

 

WBB


Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 28 October 2020 - 03:15 PM.

De-arse your bunks! Man the planes! The Fokkers are in sight! BAM ba LAMMM!
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losttwo #42 Posted 28 October 2020 - 05:00 PM

    which way do we go?

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View PostWhoaBlackBetty, on 28 October 2020 - 10:00 AM, said:

"F(a)<F(b)

F(a)>F(b)"

This is not so when human pilots of different skils and objectives become part of the equation, and even then the odds are not a surety.

 

Skill(1) = skill.  Skill(2) = <Skill(1)

 F(a) x Skill(1) > F(b) x Skill(2) 

Now:

W(1) = Pilot's goal is to win

O(1), O(2), O(3), O(4), O(5), O(6), O(7) = Pilot's goal is something other than winning, points(1), exp(2), silver(3), aerial kills(4), GT kills(5), AA kills(6), etc(7)

Litter in on either side of the equation the goals of the pilots, just randomly which is how it is in public battles, and the inequality sign in the middle will explode.  There can be no fairness, there can be no perfect MM.  There is only the knowledge that you have no knowledge of what you are about to face. Fair, the "f" word, has little place here,  This is not Fairy Balls where you play nice.  This is pixel war where you must win objectives.

 

To offset the complete unsurety of what is thrown at you when you hit "Battle", we have tools to just attempt to get a handle on the equation.  One of these tools is flights F(1), another is split-tier flights F(2).  Another is an OP plane K(1) (if the pilot can make that happen.)  There are other tools to use.  Now, take these variables and throw several on each side. Luck widdat.

 

A tool that is not helpful at all is complainingTherefore, here is another forumla:

 

WoWP happiness = L2P + Git Gud.

 

WBB


Can I get an AMEN and an AMEN.

So tired of these millennial cry babies wanting participation trophy's for coming in 2nd.

We all know what second place is equal too...Well some of us know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2nd place = LAST place.

TKO



trikke #43 Posted 28 October 2020 - 09:25 PM

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then can we all get behind something like this, just for the new pilots?      and it might be easier for WG to implement than other ideas

 

if you've flown less than 500 battles, you'll get uptiered in every battle       on your 501st battle, you'll start the same 50% uptier / 50% downtier that we have now

 

new and downtiered is just a death sentence        maybe this easy tweak will retain 10% of the new folks that try wowp?


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Captain_Underpants53 #44 Posted 28 October 2020 - 10:06 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 28 October 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

then can we all get behind something like this, just for the new pilots?      and it might be easier for WG to implement than other ideas

 

if you've flown less than 500 battles, you'll get uptiered in every battle       on your 501st battle, you'll start the same 50% uptier / 50% downtier that we have now

 

new and downtiered is just a death sentence        maybe this easy tweak will retain 10% of the new folks that try wowp?

That is a good idea!  Except I would limit it at the higher tiers.  Anyone venturing above Tier V or VI should not get a handicap advantage.


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losttwo #45 Posted 29 October 2020 - 12:34 AM

    which way do we go?

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View Posttrikke, on 28 October 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

then can we all get behind something like this, just for the new pilots?      and it might be easier for WG to implement than other ideas

 

if you've flown less than 500 battles, you'll get uptiered in every battle       on your 501st battle, you'll start the same 50% uptier / 50% downtier that we have now

 

new and downtiered is just a death sentence        maybe this easy tweak will retain 10% of the new folks that try wowp?

 

Or we can continue on with the same randomness as we have now.

How many times does that new  down tiered player get on your team and get to watch you carry the win.

How many up tiered players  get to watch you win in a down tiered plane.

We were all that NOOB at one point.

How and why did you make it this far.

Why are you ( any of you ) still playing.

What did you do to overcome the seal clubbing

Do you really want a weak team mate that wont even try to learn.

A team mate that just clicks battle and flies around trying to shoot stuff then respawn, respawn, respawn,

 

If we spare the rod and spoil the new player we have done them no favor.

We do not need a match full of canon fodder


Edited by losttwo, 29 October 2020 - 12:35 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #46 Posted 29 October 2020 - 01:46 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 28 October 2020 - 07:34 PM, said:

 

Or we can continue on with the same randomness as we have now.

How many times does that new  down tiered player get on your team and get to watch you carry the win.

How many up tiered players  get to watch you win in a down tiered plane.

We were all that NOOB at one point.

How and why did you make it this far.

Why are you ( any of you ) still playing.

What did you do to overcome the seal clubbing

Do you really want a weak team mate that wont even try to learn.

A team mate that just clicks battle and flies around trying to shoot stuff then respawn, respawn, respawn,

 

If we spare the rod and spoil the new player we have done them no favor.

We do not need a match full of canon fodder

Amen.  I have had several battles lately against and (sadly) with players with 45%, 40%, 35% win rates at Tiers VII, IX and X!  With those types of win rates I wonder how they manage to get enough silver to do anything.  The costs for a loss at the high tiers can be huge in a loss.


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CorvusCorvax #47 Posted 29 October 2020 - 03:07 AM

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View Postvcharng, on 28 October 2020 - 05:34 AM, said:

https://www.merriam-...ctionary/unfair

 

Definition of unfair

 

1marked by injustice, partiality, or deception UNJUST
2not equitable in business dealings

 

I know you most likely want to go with definition 1 of unfair, but hey, if there exists a definition 2 then I can definitely go with it.

and, in the event that you insist in going for def. 1, fine, it's even easier. Having favorable win rate for flighted players is unjust.

Unjust and favorable are not synonyms.  So, FAIL.

 

Definition 2 applies to business dealings.  So, FAIL, again.

LOL@U



SkyWolf__WM #48 Posted 29 December 2020 - 09:07 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 25 October 2020 - 11:46 PM, said:


LOL, while I do agree, I was hoping for a gentler kinder machine gun hand.

 

:hiding:

 

Keep on Rockin' World of Warplanes.   :teethhappy:


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crzyhawk #49 Posted 01 January 2021 - 06:07 PM

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Bots flying russian MR are unfair.

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losttwo #50 Posted 01 January 2021 - 06:32 PM

    which way do we go?

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:P

SkyWolf__WM #51 Posted 01 January 2021 - 06:36 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 01 January 2021 - 01:07 PM, said:

Bots flying russian MR are unfair.

 

:amazed:  :teethhappy:


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Wrongway_Conway #52 Posted 26 January 2021 - 03:13 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 26 October 2020 - 04:28 AM, said:

 

The rules and format are unfair by design.  WG wants you motivated to grind advantages until you drop.  

 

 

Hmm... I thought the goal of all free-to-play games was to get you to buy the premiums. Here it is the premium planes, gold, and crates (crates are this game's gambling item).

 

But it does seem that this game has a huge rng range where one side's bots can get massacred by the other side's bots when one side rolls min values and the other side rolls max values. When that happens (and it appears to occur very often) then the human pilots tend to be secondary to the outcome of the battle which is frustrating (and other negative emotions). Why Wg does this is a mystery to me. Does anyone know why?


Edited by Wrongway_Conway, 26 January 2021 - 03:14 AM.

You've got to grind, grind, grind...

Captain_Underpants53 #53 Posted 26 January 2021 - 03:31 AM

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Ask Marco
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Corsair4790805 #54 Posted 26 January 2021 - 05:04 AM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 25 January 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

 

Hmm... I thought the goal of all free-to-play games was to get you to buy the premiums. Here it is the premium planes, gold, and crates (crates are this game's gambling item).

 

But it does seem that this game has a huge rng range where one side's bots can get massacred by the other side's bots when one side rolls min values and the other side rolls max values. When that happens (and it appears to occur very often) then the human pilots tend to be secondary to the outcome of the battle which is frustrating (and other negative emotions). Why Wg does this is a mystery to me. Does anyone know why?

 

Ah, the MM RNG discussion.

 

So here's a look at the 33 battles I flew over the last 7 days.   These were 5 at Tier VIII, 2 at Tier II, 8 at Tier IV and the remaining 18 at Tier V.   

 

Of the 33 battles (most in Pacific evening time):

6 were 1v1

9 were 2v2

9 were 3v3

2 were 4v4

7 were 5v5

 

16 (48.48%) the red team had a 2-1 or greater advantage in battles.  My team (Blue) won 43.75% of these 16 battles (7).

7 (21.21%) the blue team had a 2-1 or greater advantage in battles.  My team (Blue) won 71.53% of these battles (5).

10 (30.30%) the blue and red teams had roughly equivalent equality in battles.  My team (Blue) won only 20.00% of these battles (2).

 

I was bottom tier in 11 battles (33.33%), and won 3 of them (27.27%)

I was top tier in 22 battles (66.67%) and won 11 of them (50.00%)

 

My overall win rate was 14-19 (42.42%).

 

All of this to say that overtime, in my opinion, the vagaries of the RNG gods even out for the most part, and it really comes down to how one team performs relative to the opposing team.  Yes, sometimes you'll be on a map that disadvantages you, or you'll wind up with supremely good players on red, or potatoes on blue (I've carried more than one blue team to victory in my short time in WoWP; I've also done a lot to hinder my team in the same period).

 

I have yet, after 1400 odd battles, to see a game where the bots have clearly swung the game in one teams favor or the other.

 

Just my 2 cents, not adjusted for inflation. :)

 



WhoaBlackBetty #55 Posted 26 January 2021 - 07:57 AM

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waa waaa waaaaaaa

L2P

GitGud

 

WG, you have made this game attractive to Fairy Balls players.

 

Fairy Balls.

 

WBB


Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 26 January 2021 - 07:57 AM.

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trikke #56 Posted 27 January 2021 - 10:24 PM

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View PostWhoaBlackBetty, on 26 January 2021 - 03:57 AM, said:

 

WG, you have made this game attractive to Fairy Balls players.

 

 

you made me look at these


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Captain_Rownd #57 Posted 28 January 2021 - 12:03 AM

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View PostWrongway_Conway, on 25 January 2021 - 05:13 PM, said:

 

Hmm... I thought the goal of all free-to-play games was to get you to buy the premiums. Here it is the premium planes, gold, and crates (crates are this game's gambling item).

 

But it does seem that this game has a huge rng range where one side's bots can get massacred by the other side's bots when one side rolls min values and the other side rolls max values. When that happens (and it appears to occur very often) then the human pilots tend to be secondary to the outcome of the battle which is frustrating (and other negative emotions). Why Wg does this is a mystery to me. Does anyone know why?

 

Bots are just bots.  The thing that happens with bots is that they tend to fly into patterns which become winnable or unwinnable.  One side gets on a roll, and it snowballs.  The best you can do is either help them out or try to get them to break out of their patterns.  That isn't a balance or fairness problem.


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WhoaBlackBetty #58 Posted 28 January 2021 - 03:43 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 27 January 2021 - 04:24 PM, said:

https://play.google....&hl=en_US&gl=US

 

"Fairy Sofia lives in dreamland."


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Captain_Underpants53 #59 Posted 28 January 2021 - 04:42 PM

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Looks like a cool game!  I can't wait to play it!  (honest)
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Wrongway_Conway #60 Posted 25 February 2021 - 02:43 AM

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Of course this game, like all Wg games, have a huge range on the variables the affect the AI. Thus one team can get min values and the other team can get max values which leads to a very lopsided battle that the side with the min bot AI values can never or rarely win. It's usually very easy to tell which side got the better AI values and which one got the poorer values. No aviation or rocket science knowledge required. But Wg likes high volatility of battlefield conditions across all their game so I'm just stating the obvious. Nothing more need be said here.


Edited by Wrongway_Conway, 25 February 2021 - 02:44 AM.

You've got to grind, grind, grind...





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