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Uprated Engine Thrust vs Combined/Injection Boost


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BrettSD #1 Posted 22 October 2020 - 05:41 AM

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I’ve always run Uprated Engine Thrust since I started exploring the equipment aspect of the game. However, after doing some reading here I’m seeing the Boost mentioned on aircraft I’d naturally take Uprated Thrust.
 

I’m wondering what the consensus is on these. When do you mount on over the other? The engine fire increase already has me building fire master pilots, so I’m curious on what else I may be missing out on. I fly a lot of BnZ light fighters and US/German heavy fighters. No Tier IX or X’s yet, but I am curious if the prevailing thinking changes with jets. 


Edited by BrettSD, 22 October 2020 - 05:42 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 22 October 2020 - 06:50 AM

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Uprated Engine affects cruise speed and cruise acceleration - in airplane terms that means that its relative energy retention is superior, especially in a close-in dogfight where you're not hammering on the boost. It also means that base climb is also superior since you're losing less speed overall. And as you might imagine it makes crossing the map a much less boost-draining exercise.

 

Turbine/Injection gives you bonuses to boost speed and acceleration - effectively it results in massive acceleration and speeds over relatively short periods (as long as you have the boost in the tank). In general it means that over short bursts, you will outrun, outclimb and outdive your opponents. It also allows you to maneuver over your optimum altitude better since you can compensate for the loss in overall engine power by hammering your boost.

 

As a rule of thumb, you want to use Uprated Engine in your fighters which already tend to have superb sprint potential but very minimal boost length. Injection/Turbine is almost a must for Multiroles which have higher boost lengths but anemic boost acceleration. The choice for Heavies and Bombers will basically come down to preference.


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hoom #3 Posted 22 October 2020 - 10:01 AM

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Since I learned to stop worrying about Cruise & love the Boost (from SpiritFoxMy) I've wound up putting Boost on just about anything that can take it.

 

Bombers & GA I'm building mainly for Survivability.

A few planes the Boost just doesn't really have a big impact or the Boost pool is too short & of course its not available under T5 -> Cruise.

 

For a long time I didn't want to lose my Cruise speed & pool but once I started using Boost Equipment & Engine Cooling Consumable (periodic Boost refills/longer Boost sprints) I found for most planes with 8+ seconds base Boost pool the acceleration & top speed increase from Boost gets you around the map clearly faster.

 

Don't forget to ensure your Pilot has ADE for extra boost to acceleration & top speed! (+ turn bonus from turn equipment)

 

The only way to really get a feel for how it works is to kit out an appropriate plane with Boost & see how it goes.

Looking at your profile the P-51D is a good candidate for testing with, you get a big speed benefit on that plane.


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wylleEcoyote #4 Posted 22 October 2020 - 06:48 PM

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The thinking doesnt really change much with jets. 
Buuut in my mid tier tech tree light fighters ... I tend to go with uprated engines in my Mustangs and Boosters in my 109's.  

The difference between the two is kinda weird ... 
using an uprated engine is like playing basketball with longer legs. 
using a booster is like playing basketball with better vertical leap.


With the Uprated engine you get more maximum cruise speed at your optimal altitude (about 6%) and your ability to get to that maximum speed is accelerated by (up to 10%) 
It is pretty straight forward.
What makes this weird is ...

Because an uprated engine will give you cruise speed and engine power this means that you have more of each to loose,  than the same plane without it. 
For example: you can point your nose straight up and climb in a 109 with an uptuned engine and have another 109 without one do the same manuver.   
Both of you will stall out and fall down (eventually) but he will do so first.
 
It also has the benefit of being "Always on" so you can set it and forget it. It also gets you set on fire all the damn time but WeeGee had to balance this somehow 

Boosters are a whole different can of worms.  For starters their main benefit is to change your boost from "fasterfaster:teethhappy:goGoGO!"
to   "I have you now :playing: ...  What! :angry:  aaaand he's gone :sceptic:"  

 
Spoiler
 
Which means an Uptuned Engine will get you where you want to go faster for cap control. 
while a booster will help you out when you get there with more air to air options in both the offense AND the defense

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


hoom #5 Posted 23 October 2020 - 11:54 AM

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The thing about Uprated Engine is its actually not even all that good.

Max benefit from an Ultimate, fully Calibrated & Bonus optimised Uprated Engine is 5.8% Cruise.

 

You get 5% from having both Engine Gurus (ADE then both Engine Gurus are first 7pts for the majority of my Pilots) & 11% from a similarly tweaked Polished Skin.

 

That latter is part of why Boost is so good: a lot of the planes where you can put the Boost equipment in for the Acceleration & Top speed benefitalso let you put in a Polished skin that gives you back more than the 'lost' Cruise performance while mounting Lightweight Wingframe &/or Lightweight Power Unit to offset the turn penalty from Polished Skin.

 

Even when you can't mount a bit of Cruise equipment as well I still feel Boost/Cooling gets most planes around faster than a Cruise build.


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BrettSD #6 Posted 23 October 2020 - 05:15 PM

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Thank you for the responses, especially Hoom for the suggestion and Wylle for the in-depth write up.

On planes with two engine slots do y’all just end up taking Lightweight Power Unit on the second slot? That’s what I did on my P-40 (the plane I have the most experience/time overall on and as a BnZ fighter). I’m definitely going to specialize my Bf 109E.

hoom #7 Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:45 PM

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For the most part yeah.

I used to do Lightweight Wingframe + Boost + Uprated Engine.

 

But Polished Skin + Boost + Lightweight Power unit gives you significantly better cruise & only slightly inferior turn so I've been migrating a bunch of planes to that.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

wylleEcoyote #8 Posted 25 October 2020 - 05:50 PM

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as a general rule yes i take a lightweight engine. I use full turn builds on my 109s and P40/51's. 
Because when (not "if" but "when") i come across other migs/'stang/109's at altitude the whole thing usually devolves into a bog standard turn fight. And i want the advantage. 
 
Spoiler

The second engine slot i reserve for an uprated engine with the P-40/51's. Those 50's need to get close and stay close to do their work.  and for that i need that extra acceleration and cruise speed to close the distance in a timely manner even at red altitudes. 
Down lower and that extra speed means im flying around with the flaps out just so i dont overshoot targets  but honestly if i am flying THAT low in an american light fighter then i am in the bad place where turn fighters will kill me quick.   

I use Boosters for my 109s. While they certainly can fly high they dont have to and rather do their best in the mid altitude ranges. Their cannons mean they dont need to get so close to do their work.  (no mad dashes followed by sudden stops like the mustangs)  they just maintain a good speed for themselves and keep making those high side gun passes until their targets cant take em any more.   
Their amazing power to weight ratios means that going up or down is easy peasy and the booster only makes this even better.
It sometimes takes a while but once they get up to a nice speed they can drop down on unsuspecting turnfighters and then bait them into following them higher where they loose their advantages in a more vertical turnfight.
Spoiler

Or do the reverse to heavies and trick them into going low and then forcing a turn thus bleeding away all their stored energy for nothing. It is possible for a heavy to use a boost cooler and power though buuut a Boosted 109 will have as good or better rate of climb. For at least a few seconds any way. ANd that is long enough for their cannons to crit an engine preventing that heavy from escaping.    


 

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 26 October 2020 - 10:38 AM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


CorvusCorvax #9 Posted 25 October 2020 - 07:49 PM

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One other thing to consider - boost feathering.  You can get a much higher cruise by boost feathering, especially in planes with good energy retention. (Bf-109).

So, it's "more betterer boost" for me.

Maqor #10 Posted 27 October 2020 - 05:48 PM

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For me, fighters get polish and lightweight power unit. It's boost injection for anything that gets 20+ seconds of boost plus access to the engine cooling consumable. Multiroles also get polish. The only things I use uprated engine on are the Me410 and an unspecialized I-210.

Favorites:

Heavy Fighters: P.1056, Ki-93, Bf109Z, XP-58, XP-50, P-38J, Mosquito26, Me410, Beaufighter, SE100, P-38F, Bf110E, Ki-45, Beaufighter5, Bf110B, BlenheimF, Multiroles: P-47B, Fw190A5, Tempest, Tornado, IL-1, F4U-1, S-199, Hurricane 2, Fighters: La-9, Yak-3RD, Vampire, Me209A, Ki-88, Mustang1A, I-210, XP-55, SpitDB, A6M3 exp, XF4U-1, Bf109B, P-36, GAA/Bombers: A-26B, Pe2M82, IL-2mod, IL-2, Me329, He111


Maqor #11 Posted 28 October 2020 - 03:49 PM

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Testing recently, I'm strongly considering switching the tech tree Beaufighter from boost injection to uprated engine. It just has such low boost speed for a heavy that I find myself running on empty with injection just getting around the map. My subjective impression is that I seem to be able to hold a higher sustained speed with uprated engine in this particular plane. I need to look into this more carefully and really see how the numbers work out.


Favorites:

Heavy Fighters: P.1056, Ki-93, Bf109Z, XP-58, XP-50, P-38J, Mosquito26, Me410, Beaufighter, SE100, P-38F, Bf110E, Ki-45, Beaufighter5, Bf110B, BlenheimF, Multiroles: P-47B, Fw190A5, Tempest, Tornado, IL-1, F4U-1, S-199, Hurricane 2, Fighters: La-9, Yak-3RD, Vampire, Me209A, Ki-88, Mustang1A, I-210, XP-55, SpitDB, A6M3 exp, XF4U-1, Bf109B, P-36, GAA/Bombers: A-26B, Pe2M82, IL-2mod, IL-2, Me329, He111


hoom #12 Posted 29 October 2020 - 09:23 AM

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Yes, Beaufighter is one of the ones where Boost doesn't really do much -> Cruise.
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.




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