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GA and Bomber Nerf Needed


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Stonecoldelf #1 Posted 22 October 2020 - 02:19 AM

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If you load in and the enemy team has a human played GA or Bomber then it's pretty much GG every time. Look through stats and you'll see guys stacking 60% plus win rates and all they play are bombers and GAs.  These need to be rebalanced in the worst way.  I thought this was supposed to be an air combat game not a ground attack PvE game.

SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 22 October 2020 - 02:43 AM

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It's an old story at tiers 9 - 10 unfortunately. Not going to be balanced anytime soon. Rather than nerfing the planes directly, they should add more ADAs around Missile Bases and Mining Plants so fighters can cap them (conversely, add more ground targets to airfields so bombers can cap them as well)

 

Basically the source of the imbalance is largely due to the two most valuable sectors on a map (Missile Bases and Mining Plants) being only captureable with GAAs or Bombers


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 22 October 2020 - 02:45 AM.

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vcharng #3 Posted 22 October 2020 - 02:50 AM

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Fly a HF, problem solved.

GAA and bombers are underpowered, not overpowered.

Their very nature of being non-aerial combatant means they are flying food for any fighters who can catch up (both in speed and altitude) and who are smart enough to trick the turrets.

 

Here's a list of no-go opponents when I fly my Me 265 ("no go" as in, when flown by average player, no chance of winning if he decides to engage me):

Any HF

Almost any MR (perhaps British T6 are manageable)

Japanese Army LF (those that starts with Ki)


Edited by vcharng, 22 October 2020 - 10:46 AM.


vcharng #4 Posted 22 October 2020 - 02:52 AM

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View PostStonecoldelf, on 22 October 2020 - 02:19 AM, said:

I thought this was supposed to be an air combat game not a ground attack PvE game.

And this, this is a very wrong concept.

If this is an air combat game and not a ground attack PVE game then there shouldn't be any non-fighters.

But as we all know, WOWP has GAAs from the earliest days.

And GAA/bombers are "pve class". They are not designed for air combat, but for engaging ground targets and capture points

 

so now you see the problem.

We have a PVP class that can engage enemy AND capture, versus a PVE class that can only capture, and in most cases, slower than PVP class.

It is thus clear that who is the one with the short stick here.



vcharng #5 Posted 22 October 2020 - 02:55 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 22 October 2020 - 02:43 AM, said:

Basically the source of the imbalance is largely due to the two most valuable sectors on a map (Missile Bases and Mining Plants) being only captureable with GAAs or Bombers

And the fact that high-tier maps often have 2 or more of those.

WG really care nothing about map balance. They have no problem putting a plant in a 3-cap map (which makes the plant the only cap that matters), and they also have no problem putting a map with 4 Garrisons and an airbase (i.e. entirely inclined toward fighters).



Captain_Underpants53 #6 Posted 22 October 2020 - 11:50 AM

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Yet the fighters have a role in KEEPING that Mining Plant.  Sadly, few of them seem to realize this.

 

 

These constant calls to nerf this, nerf that, nerf (insert least favorite class here) get old.

 

:bajan:


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qu33kKC #7 Posted 22 October 2020 - 12:40 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 22 October 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

 

 

These constant calls to nerf this, nerf that, nerf (insert least favorite class here) get old.

 

:bajan:

 

^^^

and a lot of the answers boil down to "L2P, git gud" as much as I hate to buy into that meme. 

 

"improvise, adapt, overcome" is a better answer, perhaps?



losttwo #8 Posted 22 October 2020 - 01:02 PM

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I disagree with your premise and suggestion.

Yes this is an air combat game that includes all elements of air combat.

If you choose a light fighter and enter combat it is up to you to learn how to counter

the opposition.

 

GAA and Bombers do not need a nerf.

What makes PLAYER GAA and BOMBERS so powerful is their ability to

specialize and gain pilot / gunner skill points.

What you are suggesting is to eliminate a players experience time and effort

put into playing this game.

 

I am currently grinding towards the Seahawk and am 20K away from its acquisition

My Hawker Tempest has not even reached elite status yet. Another 20K +/- to reach elite.

Even running rockets it is easy to take out GAA and bombers with ease.

Even a Human playing a bomber or GAA. Provided they have not spent too many hours obtaining the required skills

to be a challenge.

 

The only way to level the playing field is to take away every players ability to gain pilot / gunner skill.

Remove the ability to add specializations.

Take away the reward for spending time and effort into the game.

 

OK, so you are losing to better skilled players. Get over it.

I lose every match against certain players regardless of what they fly.

But I just simply try and improve.

Players like BEARSS, KAIM, HUJ ( not even going to try and finish with the spelling )

and many more.

 

Should those players be punished because they have spent time and effort in building pilot / gunner skills

So I can have a more fair playing field.

Should THEY be nerfed.

 

Sorry but it is not about the nerfing of this or that.

Like my signature says ...well, read it for yourself.

 

 

 


Edited by losttwo, 22 October 2020 - 02:51 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #9 Posted 22 October 2020 - 04:48 PM

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IMO, of all the GAAs and Bombers:

 

SB - Fine

Ar-2 - Buff maybe?

Pe-2 - Fine

Pe-2 M-82 - Fine

Tu-2 - Fine

Tu-10 - Fine

Tu-12 - Fine

Su-10 - Serious nerf

Do-17z - Buff maybe?

Ju-88A - Buff maybe?

Do-217M - Fine

Ju-288A - Fine

Ju288C - Fine

Ju-287 - Serious Nerf

EF-131 - Nerf

B-17D - Serious buff

B-17G - Buff maybe?

B-32 - Fine

Fw-189 - Fine

Hs-129B - Buff

Ju-87G - Buff

Ju-88P - Buff

Me-265 - Fine

Me-329 - Fine

Me P.1099B-2 - Fine

Me P.1022B - Fine

BSh -2 - Fine

Il-2 - Fine

Il-2 (t) - Buff maybe?

Il-10 - Fine

Il-8 - Buff maybe?

Il-20 - Buff maybe?

Il-40 - Fine

Il-40P - Fine

 

I'll note that for the Russian GAAs, what I want to see out of the buffs is upping either the overall speed a little or a rework of their equipment slots to unlock their engine consumable at non-specialist tier and give them a gunner instead of a cockpit slot. For the German GAAs, their guns either need to have better heat cycles or a simple damage increase for their big guns.

 

The B-17s need more speed and the B-17D in particular needs to be seriously looked at as does the Ar-2 although the latter is a bit more manageable. For the 17D I'd probably increase its maximum optimum altitude to go along with a general buff in both Forts' cruising and boost speeds

 

The Ju-287 and EF-131 need nerfs and I think this can easily be accomplished by removing the ordnance equipment slot. It might seem silly on a bomber but being able to one-load a Mining Plant every 30s is a little ridiculous. So either remove bombing equipment, bombing consumables or reduce the blast radius of its bombs by maybe 10%. For the Ju-287 in particular it might need two of the three nerfs because it can easily see tier 8s which will struggle to stop it at any point.

 

The Su-10 just needs to have its bombing equipment slot removed. Just doing that will render the plane a shadow of its current glory and make is a strong but manageable threat. 


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GeorgePatton #10 Posted 22 October 2020 - 05:08 PM

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Block Quote

 

Base Game Mode

 

Objectives:

  • Defend base
  • Destroy opposing base
  • Defeat incoming armored vehicles
  • Defend supply trains
  • Destroy supply trains

 

Defend Base:

 

The base is the main objective of the game - destroying targets on the opposing base will remove points from the opposing team. When a team’s point meter reaches 0, the battle is over.

 

Armored vehicles:

 

Armored vehicles will destroy targets on the base as well as engage opposing armored vehicles that are encountered. Ping opposing armor units to direct the nearest friendly unit to attempt to engage them! Assist your team by destroying armored units to allow your units to break through! 

 

Supply Trains:

 

Supply trains will resupply the base, repairing damaged targets. Every third train will be a ‘super train’ which carries enough supplies to restore a destroyed target on the base. Destroying opposing trains is vital to ensuring the continued attrition of the opposing base. Defending your team’s supply trains is important to maximize your team’s advantage. In the case of trains reaching undamaged bases, supplies will be stockpiled and targets repaired as materials are available later in the match.

 

When the supply trains arrive and targets are restored, a corresponding increase will be seen in the team’s point meter.

 

Team Composition:

 

Each team will consist of 15 players.

 

2 Strategic Bombers

3 Attack Aircraft

3 Heavy Fighters

7 Fighters

 

 

Aircraft Classification:

 

Strategic Bombers - aircraft currently listed as bombers in WoWP 2.0.

Attack Aircraft - aircraft currently listed as attack aircraft in WoWP 2.0.

Heavy Fighters - aircraft currently listed as heavy fighters in WoWP 2.0.

Fighters - aircraft currently listed as light and multi-role fighters in WoWP 2.0.

 

Why the change in fighters:

 

In order to maintain a greater connection to the historic development of air combat, I believe it is important to depict aircraft with weapons and ordinance in accordance with historical evidence. Many aircraft, such as the P-51 series were able to carry external ordinance in addition to the internally mounted weapons which we currently see in WoWP. I believe it would increase player satisfaction and general gameplay variety if players were given the option to mount external ordinance on aircraft which were historically capable of carrying such ordinance. In accordance with this change, external munitions and hard points should affect the aircraft’s performance with relevant changes being made to the aircraft’s performance when ordinance is released as we’ve seen in previous versions of WoWP.

 

 

General Expected Gameplay:

 

The expected gameplay results from this game mode would be a rock-paper-scissors of sorts where Strategic Bombers attack the base while heavies attack the bombers to defend the base. Attack aircraft hunt armored units and trains with assistance from ordinance-carrying fighters, while fighters without ordinance (or after expending ordinance) will join the attack against the base by hunting heavies and defending friendlies. As the balance of points between teams widens, one team will be forced to shift into a defensive position where all assets are focused on defeating incoming opposing aircraft and armored units. Thus, defending the trains and ensuring that they reach their destinations early in the game is of utmost importance, giving a high importance to attack aircraft and creating a vital role for fighters equipped with external ordinance. Strategic importance will be placed on escorting armored units across the map which will require teamwork between attack pilots and fighters as they will be intercepted by opposing forces on their way. Effective management of armored units will ensure that opposing armor is held up while your team’s attack pilots pick them off while being covered by your friendly fighters. A team that coordinates well and ensures the safe arrival of their trains in the early stages of the battle will be able to ‘tank damage’ from the strategic bombers while their heavies participate in the quick destruction of opposing attack aircraft intent on destroying trains and armored units.

 

Overall, I believe that this game mode would increase the balance between aircraft types and give both attack aircraft and strategic bombers a better place in the overall gameplay. 

 

I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this game mode and possible improvements. This is obviously a rather abbreviated description of the game mode and would require input and testing from a larger demographic to ensure proper playability.

 

This would fix the whole imbalance thing...

 

 

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Captain_Underpants53 #11 Posted 22 October 2020 - 05:14 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 22 October 2020 - 11:48 AM, said:

IMO, of all the GAAs and Bombers:

 

SB - Fine

Ar-2 - Buff maybe?

Pe-2 - Fine

Pe-2 M-82 - Fine

Tu-2 - Fine

Tu-10 - Fine

Tu-12 - Fine

Su-10 - Serious nerf

Do-17z - Buff maybe?

Ju-88A - Buff maybe?

Do-217M - Fine

Ju-288A - Fine

Ju288C - Fine

Ju-287 - Serious Nerf

EF-131 - Nerf

B-17D - Serious buff

B-17G - Buff maybe?

B-32 - Fine

Fw-189 - Fine

Hs-129B - Buff

Ju-87G - Buff

Ju-88P - Buff

Me-265 - Fine

Me-329 - Fine

Me P.1099B-2 - Fine

Me P.1022B - Fine

BSh -2 - Fine

Il-2 - Fine

Il-2 (t) - Buff maybe?

Il-10 - Fine

Il-8 - Buff maybe?

Il-20 - Buff maybe?

Il-40 - Fine

Il-40P - Fine

 

I'll note that for the Russian GAAs, what I want to see out of the buffs is upping either the overall speed a little or a rework of their equipment slots to unlock their engine consumable at non-specialist tier and give them a gunner instead of a cockpit slot. For the German GAAs, their guns either need to have better heat cycles or a simple damage increase for their big guns.

 

The B-17s need more speed and the B-17D in particular needs to be seriously looked at as does the Ar-2 although the latter is a bit more manageable. For the 17D I'd probably increase its maximum optimum altitude to go along with a general buff in both Forts' cruising and boost speeds

 

The Ju-287 and EF-131 need nerfs and I think this can easily be accomplished by removing the ordnance equipment slot. It might seem silly on a bomber but being able to one-load a Mining Plant every 30s is a little ridiculous. So either remove bombing equipment, bombing consumables or reduce the blast radius of its bombs by maybe 10%. For the Ju-287 in particular it might need two of the three nerfs because it can easily see tier 8s which will struggle to stop it at any point.

 

The Su-10 just needs to have its bombing equipment slot removed. Just doing that will render the plane a shadow of its current glory and make is a strong but manageable threat. 

I think we should rip off one of their wings!  And fer good measure, delete its bomb load.


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Captain_Rownd #12 Posted 22 October 2020 - 10:25 PM

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View PostStonecoldelf, on 21 October 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

 I thought this was supposed to be an air combat game not a ground attack PvE game.

 

It is a game of flying warplanes to capture objectives.  Warplanes wrecking enemy ground targets is a VERY normal thing, and destroying ground targets captures objectives which is the whole point. 

 


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losttwo #13 Posted 22 October 2020 - 10:27 PM

    which way do we go?

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 22 October 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

It is a game of flying warplanes to capture objectives.  Warplanes wrecking enemy ground targets is a VERY normal thing, and destroying ground targets captures objectives which is the whole point. 

 


:great:



Captain_Underpants53 #14 Posted 23 October 2020 - 12:33 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 22 October 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:

 

It is a game of flying warplanes to capture objectives.  Warplanes wrecking enemy ground targets is a VERY normal thing, and destroying ground targets captures objectives which is the whole point. 

 


:medal:

 

I'm starting to like you!


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vcharng #15 Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:46 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 22 October 2020 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

It is a game of flying warplanes to capture objectives.  Warplanes wrecking enemy ground targets is a VERY normal thing, and destroying ground targets captures objectives which is the whole point. 

 

With regard of this, I would like to point out that this is World of WARPLANES, not World of FIGHTERS.

They can even introduce C-47s dropping airborne troops and it won't be a problem.



vcharng #16 Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:57 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 22 October 2020 - 04:48 PM, said:

IMO, of all the GAAs and Bombers:

 

 

 

The Ju-287 and EF-131 need nerfs and I think this can easily be accomplished by removing the ordnance equipment slot. It might seem silly on a bomber but being able to one-load a Mining Plant every 30s is a little ridiculous. 

I don't really think so, they can do this only at rather low altitude which runs the risk of being food to HFs.

Russian high tier bombers can even actively engage HFs due to their front armament, so that's a different issue, but for German ones I think not giving every map 2+ MP/ MBs would be all the nerfs needed.



JackG79 #17 Posted 23 October 2020 - 06:04 PM

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I don't think we need any nerfs. I honestly just think that they need some new maps, and maybe even try out some double size maps with longer game play.   A lot of these matches are over super fast!! 

TeamTerrence #18 Posted 23 October 2020 - 07:38 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 23 October 2020 - 01:46 AM, said:

With regard of this, I would like to point out that this is World of WARPLANES, not World of FIGHTERS.

They can even introduce C-47s dropping airborne troops and it won't be a problem.

 

:amazed:



Captain_Rownd #19 Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:11 PM

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View Postvcharng, on 22 October 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

They can even introduce C-47s dropping airborne troops and it won't be a problem.

 

...imagines the cries of shock and outrage at the possibility of machine-gunning clouds of parachutists being part of the game play....

 

 


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no_trace_of_sanity #20 Posted 24 October 2020 - 05:18 PM

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All this talk just makes me want to fly my Tier 10 bombers and GAA that much more....practice makes destruction.




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