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Potential solves for Salvage imbalance...?

Salvage Tuning Enhancement In-game Economy

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NovaTempest #1 Posted 11 February 2020 - 04:41 PM

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Nowadays very few things about world of warplanes are issues I find infuriating that really should not be (Ever since upgrading to windows 10 on my laptop, my ping spike issues have mostly disappeared and my frame rate has improved noticeably in most situations). There is one thing however that still grinds my gears...

That blasted salvage system...

Not only is part distribution all boiled down to what targets a player destroys (For instance Era I bombers drop almost solely mechanical parts, as do medium and large armored ground targets), but returns in victories can be very disappointing. Sure, you could argue that "It should take time to accumulate a massive amount of parts so you don't have to worry about that", but the reality is considerably harsher.

I have hemorrhaged mechanical parts myself constantly ever since the system came in. The equipment I put on my planes calls for sizeable amounts of it upon enhancement, or even tuning (And the tuning system sometimes decides it wants to leech whatever mechanical components I have left no matter what I do), I have never had over 300 mechanical components at any one point in the game. Yet I have over 3000 weapon components, have had over 2000 airframe elements (I currently have 800), yadda yadda yadda, many of us are aware of this story at this point.

The imbalance is annoying in terms of what parts players literally DEVOUR to get their planes to their peak, and I want to lay out a few possible suggestions to better stabilize this that would not be too difficult to throw in I feel.

Solution 1: Salvager's "Black Market"

The premise here is pretty straightforward, initially i considered the idea of allowing players to trade materials between them, I.E "I'll trade you 300 mechanical parts for 300 weapon components."

But I thought of something even simpler, a system of bot run "Black Market" dealers that barter one kind of material for another. Complete with its own menu section and all that, which could be accessed from the purchase menu in "Depot".

Deals could be made into sections in terms of their scale, A Daily deal could involve at most 50 parts being traded in total (25 for 25), weekly versions could be added where single trades exchange a total of 200 (100 for 100), Players could spend 5 tokens to reshuffle or refresh the list of deals. This way, if players, new or veterans, find themselves with a frustratingly poor amount of one material, yet are drowning in abundance in another that they have no reason to have so many of, this is a way to help even things out.

Solution 2: Era Multiplier

Another straightforward solve that would be even simpler, and one that could potentially encourage newer players to get aircraft in later eras, while also cutting back on the need veterans feel to "farm" for parts at Era I.

To put it simply:

Era I (Tiers I - IV):

Mechanical Parts - x1
Airframe Elements - x1

 

Era II (Tiers V - VII):

Mechanical Parts - x2

Airframe Elements - x2

Weapon Parts - x1

Flight Instruments - x1

Heat Resistant Parts - x1

 

Era III (Tiers VIII - X):

Mechanical Parts - x3

Airframe Elements - x3

Weapon Parts - x2

Flight Instruments - x2

Heat Resistant Components - x2

Radio Electronics - x1

 

And should Tier IV's and Tier VII's be thrown into Tier V and Tier VIII matches and end up on the winning side, They will recieve the same part multiplier as the top tier aircraft. This will be incentive for new players to move up research lines into higher eras. This system overall could also curb the amount of farming veterans feel they may need to do at starting tiers in order to get substantial amounts of parts they are after that they may be starving for.

Either
way, these solutions would also help struggling pilots to a degree, but not to a point they can immediately catch up to seasoned veterans of the game.

Thoughts?
 



Captain_Underpants53 #2 Posted 11 February 2020 - 06:42 PM

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I have seen the Black Market idea promoted several times.  To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen any response, pro or neg, on the subject.  That kinda tells me that the powers-that-be don't want to change it or argue about it.

 

But, we can always dream.  :medal::great:


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 11 February 2020 - 06:43 PM.

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J311yfish #3 Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:57 AM

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SenatorTH #4 Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:38 AM

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View PostNovaTempest, on 11 February 2020 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

Thoughts?
 

 

Just one. Not even a thought but a fact: not gonna happen in this realm.



hoom #5 Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:44 AM

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Its Flight Instruments for me, all the time Flight Instruments.
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

wylleEcoyote #6 Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:39 PM

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How much do we as a player base know about the mechanism behind salvage part acquisition?  

 Is it likely that the reason players have particular part bottle necks is because those players tend to play a particular class of airplane to the exclusion of the other classes? 
which leads to a tendency towards only killing certain kinds of targets and therefore gaining certain kinds of salvage? 
Spoiler



Is it also likely that such a player may favor a particular type of build and as such leans heavily into a particular part use? 

Spoiler
   
Spoiler

I DO know that the system is designed to use LOTS of mech/frame parts.  And it seems hardly a coincidence that flying in low tiers gains them exclusively.
Also Bi-planes can be a fun change of pace from trans-sonic jets
Spoiler

Dont like griefing noobs? Bots dont care.
There are mods that will show you what is a bot and what is not. 
 


   
 


 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 12 February 2020 - 03:42 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-1, A4N/5M, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


Captain_Underpants53 #7 Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:18 PM

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The parts I really keep an eye on are the radio electronics and the heated treated parts.  I've noticed that if I do well in an upper period battle while in a lower tier bomber that I tend to get more of them.  Dunno why.  :unsure:
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trikke #8 Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:45 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 February 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

Spoiler

 


Yay BiPlanes!      Boy, that hurt my fingers just typing it but we love u BB


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Deltavee #9 Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:51 PM

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View Posthoom, on 11 February 2020 - 11:44 PM, said:

Its Flight Instruments for me, all the time Flight Instruments.

 

Same here, hoom. 

 

Just for the hell of it I decided to Specialize all 21 of my Biplanes and the bottleneck is Always bluidy Flight Instruments which start showing up at T5 apparently.  I have no desire to depart from my personal project and go fight in a different lieu just to get some parts.  Gah!

 

I think players should be able to just straight up barter extraneous parts among themselves using the assigned value for each part.

Never going to happen but it would be nice....


Edited by Deltavee, 13 February 2020 - 09:51 PM.

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trikke #10 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:42 PM

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I purposely flew my T4 he-111 this am, just to see if bombers seem to earn more mech parts


I haven't touched it since last summer at least, and it hasn't changed much, still boring when flying at altitude


I did about average for me, 6-7-8k in 3 wins, and I got 5 mech parts in each


I was hoping that it was going to make it rain mech parts, but it was easy money


frustrating to see instances from above where I could have helped out, if I had been in a heavy

 

but I was very serenely sailing over everyone's head


Edited by trikke, 13 February 2020 - 10:42 PM.

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NovaTempest #11 Posted 17 February 2020 - 03:33 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 February 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

Spoiler

I recall a table having provided by a player here in the forums that laid out a crud load of information regarding what X type of plane in Y era most frequently dropped, as well as a table for what A ground target type dropped B type of salvage most frequently on wins. It is here somewhere... :unsure:

 

View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 February 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

Is it also likely that such a player may favor a particular type of build and as such leans heavily into a particular part use? 
Spoiler


I am at the point I have MiGs, Zeroes, Ki's, 262s, Bombers, a 302, and etc. etc. etc.

But you are right, such builds will DEVOUR parts. I am glad I had the 2000 airframe elements as my collection of planes ate 1200 of them.
 

View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 February 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

Spoiler

I DO know that the system is designed to use LOTS of mech/frame parts.  And it seems hardly a coincidence that flying in low tiers gains them exclusively.


Unfortunately there are extremely few multiroles that can be made turn-y enough to compete with the seemingly endless sea of light fighters that can be made to apparently turn on a dime. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are the Corsairs, Shindens, and maybe the Hawkers, and even still that takes considerable investment. Out of all of them the Shindens have the biggest punch, albeit the game in its current state leaves them often very dependent on the team you are in (Especially the J7W1).

The point does still stand that it takes an annoyingly long time to accumulate certain parts if you desperately need them constantly. It has gotten to the point for me that if crates hand me enhanced equipment that normally eats them, I simply put them on a plane then disassemble them to get the mechanical parts to pile up even somewhat. I have a grand total of 21 planes in my hangar I still have yet to get to Specialization on (of which I only care about maybe 16-17 of them), of the planes I have specialized, I still have over 25 that have equipment that is not fully enhanced, and I think about 6 that do have max enhanced equipment, but it isn't all max calibrated. The bottlenecking is so real and so painful. :(



trikke #12 Posted 18 February 2020 - 11:40 PM

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View PostNovaTempest, on 17 February 2020 - 10:33 AM, said:

 if crates hand me enhanced equipment that normally eats them, I simply put them on a plane then disassemble them to get the mechanical parts to pile up even somewhat


Omg, what a great idea!     I've never thought of that!      

I'm sitting on a pile of tokens, and I've got a ton of hangar queens that I'm gonna strip down tomorrow!


edit: you've saved me from driving low tier bombers around     boooooring!
 


Edited by trikke, 18 February 2020 - 11:41 PM.

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GonerNL #13 Posted 19 February 2020 - 02:29 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 February 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

How much do we as a player base know about the mechanism behind salvage part acquisition?  

 

http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/54605-materials-in-world-of-warplanes/


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trikke #14 Posted 20 February 2020 - 04:01 AM

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View PostNovaTempest, on 17 February 2020 - 10:33 AM, said:

I simply put them on a plane then disassemble them to get the mechanical parts to pile up even somewhat


Okay...  I'll admit that I've never done any disassembly before now

 

 are there any gotchas that I need to watch out for?   

because every possible enhance/calibrate gotchas have already happened to me before now, and I'm a little gunshy


I've got planes sitting in hangars without pilots that I'll never fly again...  I just choose the slot and click, right?

Do I get to see the parts that I'll get back before I finalize the disassembly?


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Captain_Underpants53 #15 Posted 20 February 2020 - 11:56 AM

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You can't disassemble stock or improved parts, only advanced or ultimate parts to get materials.  The materials you recover are random and nothing like as much as it takes to enhance a piece of equipment.  And it is another gamble where you won't know exactly what you're getting until you hit that button.  At which time, of course, you can't undo it.

 

I like to sell all stock and improved parts but I just hoard the advanced and ultimate ones.  The last time I checked I had around 30,000,000 worth of them in my depot.  This does not include stuff on planes I do not fly.

 

Why do I horde them?  Because I like to pull them out and try different configurations at times.  Sometimes a different or new gained skill for the crew changes what works best.

 

 


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trikke #16 Posted 20 February 2020 - 12:41 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 20 February 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

 The materials you recover are random and nothing like as much as it takes to enhance a piece of equipment.  And it is another gamble where you won't know exactly what you're getting until you hit that button.  


O.  M.  F.  G.       of course it's set up that way.        just to screw with my head.       
 

well, I'm not using them for anything, so...


fool me once, shame on me


Edited by trikke, 20 February 2020 - 12:42 PM.

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wylleEcoyote #17 Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:23 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 19 February 2020 - 11:01 PM, said:


Okay...  I'll admit that I've never done any disassembly before now

 

 are there any gotchas that I need to watch out for?   

because every possible enhance/calibrate gotchas have already happened to me before now, and I'm a little gunshy


I've got planes sitting in hangars without pilots that I'll never fly again...  I just choose the slot and click, right?

Do I get to see the parts that I'll get back before I finalize the disassembly?

 

View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 20 February 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

You can't disassemble stock or improved parts, only advanced or ultimate parts to get materials.  The materials you recover are random and nothing like as much as it takes to enhance a piece of equipment.  And it is another gamble where you won't know exactly what you're getting until you hit that button.  At which time, of course, you can't undo it.

 

I like to sell all stock and improved parts but I just hoard the advanced and ultimate ones.  The last time I checked I had around 30,000,000 worth of them in my depot.  This does not include stuff on planes I do not fly.

 

Why do I horde them?  Because I like to pull them out and try different configurations at times.  Sometimes a different or new gained skill for the crew changes what works best.

 

 


Hold up, there.

Improved equipment DOES give you parts when disassembled. Nor are the materials random.

For example:

Spoiler


... buying a thing and selling it back will lose your money or mats in the long run. 

With that said; if you opened a supply crate and received a free improved or better piece of equipment <that you wont use anyway because you have 3 more just like it>, then disassembling such a thing doesn't cost you anything. Because you didn't use any resources to get it in the first place.  (beyond the gold or grind time spent for the crate itself )

Overall any credit usage is lost. Treat this as the sunk cost it is intended to be.
 

Spoiler


What about calibration, Mr. Super-Genius?

Good question.  

Spoiler
 

All resources spent on calibration are a sunk cost that is lost upon use. you wont get anything back.

It is one of the largest sunk costs in the game.  Justified only because there is no other way to gain its benefit. 
It is right up there with rage-selling and buying back the same plane 3 or 4 times.

 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 20 February 2020 - 02:34 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-1, A4N/5M, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


trikke #18 Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:01 PM

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what a big screamy baby I was!     I got hundreds and hundreds of mech parts with no muss or fuss at all!

and it's not random

I had a ton of improved armored cockpits that I never use, and I got exactly the same number of the same parts each time


I don't calibrate much, so I had zero sunk cost loss.      for me, this was a huge win


but this isn't something that I could do every week or even every month


I leveled up all of the almost-ultimate equipment on my favs in about half an hour

 


Edited by trikke, 20 February 2020 - 10:06 PM.

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Captain_Underpants53 #19 Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:31 PM

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Thanks.  Things have changed since I last tried it.  I will have to stop selling off my improved parts.

 


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NovaTempest #20 Posted 27 February 2020 - 04:12 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 20 February 2020 - 10:01 PM, said:

what a big screamy baby I was!     I got hundreds and hundreds of mech parts with no muss or fuss at all!

and it's not random

I had a ton of improved armored cockpits that I never use, and I got exactly the same number of the same parts each time


I don't calibrate much, so I had zero sunk cost loss.      for me, this was a huge win


but this isn't something that I could do every week or even every month


I leveled up all of the almost-ultimate equipment on my favs in about half an hour

 

well glad your drought for the time being is fixed.

Mine still endures. I have a large stockpile of era 2 lightweight wing frames and Reinforced Airframes, all improved level. They cough up less mechanical parts usually and more airframe elements, Airframe elements that I do not deperately need right now.

Either way, I have found that the higher the level of the equipment, the more parts it is worth on disassembly. So if a crate gives you an Ultimate Era 3 gunsight, it is going to give you many more mechanical parts on disassembly than an improved era 2 gunsight.

I recently disassembled a advanced era 2 gun laying drive i had no use for for 20-odd mechanical parts myself.






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