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Not fun when there is no chance of winning

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Capt_Pepper #1 Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:25 PM

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I've have made great progress in game playing. I have been playing planes for over 6 month have done well in flights. Here lately the game seems to have changed. I am having very lopsided games where I lose 0 to 400 or 63 to 600. I come in first on my team most of the time but the other sides have planes that are not in the prem store that out perform all planes in the game. (Like the XP-31 or S-510) You can not enjoy playing when I am little more than a target. When the top score on the winning side is 21000 and you come in first on you side with 2200, that is not a game, it a slaughter. I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%. Please fix the game to match players with similar skill set and plane performance.

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.



metus_regem #2 Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:39 PM

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Hey there Capt_Pepper,

 

I know the feeling, I'm playing WoWP purely F2P and sometimes the premium planes seem a little unbalanced, but they are not invincible (though the Russian ones seem unusually resilient, I mean seriously the it's like the Russian premium versions have more HP or something than tech tree versions...), but they can still be downed. You just need the right tool for the job, for me I find 20mm cannons make short work of just about any premium plane.

 

The other thing I recommend is learning what play style works best for your bird and you as the pilot. For instance, don't try to out turn a Spitfire in anything other than a Zero. Don't try to Boom and Zoom a 109E in a Spit I, things like that, everything has strengths and weaknesses, find where they are weakest and beat them by exploiting it.



Trauglodyte #3 Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:53 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 05:25 PM, said:


I've have made great progress in game playing. I have been playing planes for over 6 month have done well in flights. Here lately the game seems to have changed. I am having very lopsided games where I lose 0 to 400 or 63 to 600. I come in first on my team most of the time but the other sides have planes that are not in the prem store that out perform all planes in the game. (Like the XP-31 or S-510) You can not enjoy playing when I am little more than a target. When the top score on the winning side is 21000 and you come in first on you side with 2200, that is not a game, it a slaughter. I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%. Please fix the game to match players with similar skill set and plane performance.

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.

 

You've written a lot.  I'll say a few things:

 

- You can't do anything about limiting what planes people own.  It just is what it is.

- You definitely CANNOT do anything about people like deser789, who are rocking 86% win rates.  It just is what it is.

- You can't do anything about the stupid ramming code.  It jut is what it is.

 

What you can control are your actions.  If you're a 49% player, why?  Either analyze what is holding you back or shrug it off and just play for fun.  I get pissed a lot.  Heck, sometimes the aggravation is more tiring than the actions causing the aggravation.  YOU control the keyboard so take advantage of it.  Or don't and just accept the situation.

 

Something to note, understand that the tier 3-6 is a wasteland of bad and stupid.  If you're playing in that tier band, chances are you're getting a lot of players on your team that make you look like an 86% player.  I had a game, over the weekend, where I had 3 fellow teammates that, combined, had less than 300 games and all three of them were sub-40% players.  Bots literally have better win rates than them but that is the issue with new players.  They don't know anything and know even less about what they don't know.  Grind up, pick some planes that you really enjoy (either the play style or the look), and then uber gear them.  You still won't be players, like desert789, but you'll stand a better chance playing something that doesn't reek of being stock-ish.



SkyWolf__WM #4 Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:35 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:


I've have made great progress in game playing. I have been playing planes for over 6 month have done well in flights. Here lately the game seems to have changed. I am having very lopsided games where I lose 0 to 400 or 63 to 600. I come in first on my team most of the time but the other sides have planes that are not in the prem store that out perform all planes in the game. (Like the XP-31 or S-510)

 

Look at the stats of the players that are beating you. Are they stat padders with thousands of battles in low tiers? How do you have your aircraft set up? A well set up AR-68 can easily kill an XP-31.

 

You can not enjoy playing when I am little more than a target. When the top score on the winning side is 21000 and you come in first on you side with 2200, that is not a game, it a slaughter.

 

If the other side is scoring 21,000 and you 2200, then you have rushed to climb tiers and shouldn't be flying higher tiers until you can win more than 50% BY YOURSELF in the lower tiers. I'm stooopud. I fly alone a LOT. But high scoring pilots flight up.

 

I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%. Please fix the game to match players with similar skill set and plane performance.

 

They can't. Learn to work within the system. And flight up. If you can't out turn a plane then DON'T turn with it. Boom and zoom. Run away. Whatever it takes.

 

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.

 

They know that. In closed beta, any plane collision resulted in death to both aircraft. That INCLUDED flying into the wreckage of the aircraft you just shot down. It is what it is. Aggravating for sure, but something you just have to live with.  :hiding:

 


Edited by SkyWolf__WM, 14 January 2020 - 06:37 PM.

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BB3_Oregon_Steel #5 Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:06 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 09:25 AM, said:


I've have made great progress in game playing. I have been playing planes for over 6 month have done well in flights. Here lately the game seems to have changed. I am having very lopsided games where I lose 0 to 400 or 63 to 600. I come in first on my team most of the time but the other sides have planes that are not in the prem store that out perform all planes in the game. (Like the XP-31 or S-510) You can not enjoy playing when I am little more than a target. When the top score on the winning side is 21000 and you come in first on you side with 2200, that is not a game, it a slaughter. I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%. Please fix the game to match players with similar skill set and plane performance.

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.

 

I've been in battles like that, and I've experienced stretches where I might have a string of battles like that (not very often, but sometimes) and pretty much all of the time I'll have battles where I'm in a slightly improved stock plane flying against specialist planes and sometimes there will just be a pilot of the other side or, worse, a couple of pilots on the other side that just are going to eat my lunch 90% of the time. 

 

But then there will be occasions when those pilots are on my side and my team wins easily, it kind of balances out over time.   There's also I think kind of an art of how to be as successful as possible when facing superior planes and opponents and sometimes that consists of just flying someplace where they are not and doing something useful there.   

 

As has already been mentioned, it's good to have a general idea of what you and your opponent's plane does well and what it does not. You never want to get into a turn battle with a plane being flown by a human that you can't outturn.  If you do end up in one, it's really useful to have the "summon a bot" key working (I key bind mine to the X key for convenience) because sometimes, just sometimes, a bot may actually show up and help brush the offending red plane off your tail. 

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but there are things you can do to give yourself the best chance possible even in difficult situations and sometimes you might even be able to eke out a win despite the odds. 

 

 


"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


Trauglodyte #6 Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:31 PM

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OP, the one other thing that I'll suggest is that you both identify what you consider as "fun" and then emphasize it.  I LOATHE the GAA playstyle (at least for tiers 4 and 5; hoping that it gets better).  Blowing up buildings, in my bombers, is oodles of fun.  Shooting buildings is like watching pain dry on grass as it grows.  I'd literally rather have a staring contest with a picture of a fish than play it.  So, I don't necessarily bother with GAA - I have specced out my Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, and Hw 129 B.  But, that is because I'm a masochist and I don't mind grinding.  Plus, it is a real hoot when I kill opponents in a GAA.

 

Understand that not all nations fun.  Not all planes in a tree are fun.  And the fun gets better as you grind up.  It would take money, to get me to play my Ta 183 and the Fw 252.  But, that doesn't mean that all Light Fighters are garbage or that all Light Fighters in the Germany tech tree are garbage.  PLUS, I used to hate my Thunderbolt but have recently dusted it off, to spec it, and have found that my hatred was my error in playing it incorrectly.

 

Ignore the outcome and accept that you are playing with AI bots and people bots that probably got a migraine figuring out how to turn on their computers.  I'm of the opinion that, if we still have VCRs, the aggravation in teaching people how to do a timed record would act as a massive human extinction and we wouldn't have to worry about any of this.



Captain_Rownd #7 Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:21 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 07:25 AM, said:

 I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%.

 

XP-31 and SPAD are two of the best planes in the game, and people tend to keep them.  Those players would probably have 82% win rate in any plane at that Tier.  While another player in an XP-31 might be a problem for you, when I fly my SPAD it's an even battle.  The matchmaker is mostly random, and assigns us whatever opponents happen to be in the queue at the time.  One aspect of improving your game is recognizing when you are outmatched, and avoiding those situations.  If the enemy is in a better plane you need to avoid them and go elsewhere on the map to abuse the bots to play the capping game.  The victory/defeat outcome is determined by cap points instead of personal points, and I've seen plenty of people lose battles despite racking up more than 20k personal points. Do what you CAN with the matchups you're given, and don't hang your happiness on win/loss. 

 


Favorites:

SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714


Captain_Underpants53 #8 Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:07 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:


I've have made great progress in game playing. I have been playing planes for over 6 month have done well in flights. Here lately the game seems to have changed. I am having very lopsided games where I lose 0 to 400 or 63 to 600. I come in first on my team most of the time but the other sides have planes that are not in the prem store that out perform all planes in the game. (Like the XP-31 or S-510) You can not enjoy playing when I am little more than a target. When the top score on the winning side is 21000 and you come in first on you side with 2200, that is not a game, it a slaughter. I find I am up against players with a win rate of 82% in a plane I can not out turn and my win rate is 49%. Please fix the game to match players with similar skill set and plane performance.

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.


Admittedly, it is usually more fun to win than to lose.  But, coming in First in Defeat has its own charms.  Some of the funnest games are the losing ones.


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Shizzywiznut #9 Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:40 PM

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I personally don't chase after humans that I don't know in low tiers until provoked or in the same cap zone, a few passing shots and I move on to the next cap, but if the player engages, I will defend myself vigorously. 

Get about 10k more battles under your belt and you will appreciate the players that once were once beating you that you will in turn engage them on more equal terms, it will make you a better player in the long run



Capt_Pepper #10 Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:59 PM

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I am sorry SKYWOLF_WM  that I was not more specific. I have tier 2 thur tier 10. Why I bring this subject up was, I was talking about my premium tier 2 planes. I have three premium planes and it is those battle that I find so very lopsided. I won those planes in containers and I don’t want to sell them because premium planes give you an extra bonus when you fly them. I know all about trying to out turn zeros and spits. I'm talking about me playing tier 2 and the battle score is 0 to 400. You sound like a guy who only cares about getting 80% win rate and studying each plane in every detail,,good for you. I just want to play the game and have fun and 50% win rate is perfectly fine for me. You can’t have fun in a tier 2 game and lose 0-400 because some guy has a XP-31 or S-510. Clearly you are not familiar with these planes, as both of them are tier 2.

metus_regem #11 Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:27 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 10:59 PM, said:

 I know all about trying to out turn zeros and spits. I'm talking about me playing tier 2 and the battle score is 0 to 400. You sound like a guy who only cares about getting 80% win rate and studying each plane in every detail,,good for you. I just want to play the game and have fun and 50% win rate is perfectly fine for me. You can’t have fun in a tier 2 game and lose 0-400 because some guy has a XP-31 or S-510. Clearly you are not familiar with these planes, as both of them are tier 2.

 

 

Dude, I'm pushing a 48% win rate...

 

And you're right, I usually play t4-8, I loath T9 gameplay. But I see lots of premium planes in the range I play, I've just learned how to beat them with my tech tree LF' and MRF's.



Captain_Rownd #12 Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:28 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 12:59 PM, said:

 You can’t have fun in a tier 2 game and lose 0-400 because some guy has a XP-31 or S-510. Clearly you are not familiar with these planes, as both of them are tier 2.

 

  The XP-31 and SPAD are not an auto-win button.  They can be defeated. 

 

  When you're losing 0-400 it probably has a lot to do with where your bots went and what happened to them there.  Sometimes the bots take a cap fast, and sometimes one or two get knocked out by ADA or AA and they just grind it for the entire battle.  In those cases you need to get over there and assist the capping so your bots can move on to the next one.  Managing the battle is as important as flying your own plane.  

 

 

 


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SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714


Booze_Morgan #13 Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:36 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 11:25 AM, said:

P.S. nether plane should survive in a collision.

 

Nope.  LOOONG ago that was the case, and it was abused badly by pilots who would take a not so good plane with few hit points and ram a very good plane with a lot of hit points, taking it out.  Unfair, unbalanced, and wide open for massive abuse.  The collision meta is just fine as it is, I assure you.

 

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Spoiler

 


SkyWolf__WM #14 Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:46 PM

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View PostCapt_Pepper, on 14 January 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

I am sorry SKYWOLF_WM  that I was not more specific. I have tier 2 thur tier 10. Why I bring this subject up was, I was talking about my premium tier 2 planes. I have three premium planes and it is those battle that I find so very lopsided. I won those planes in containers and I don’t want to sell them because premium planes give you an extra bonus when you fly them. I know all about trying to out turn zeros and spits. I'm talking about me playing tier 2 and the battle score is 0 to 400. You sound like a guy who only cares about getting 80% win rate and studying each plane in every detail,,good for you. I just want to play the game and have fun and 50% win rate is perfectly fine for me. You can’t have fun in a tier 2 game and lose 0-400 because some guy has a XP-31 or S-510. Clearly you are not familiar with these planes, as both of them are tier 2.

 

Wow. Wrong. They gave away the Spad and XP-31. Kept the 31, hated the Spad and rage sold it.

No, I rarely fly below tier 4, some 3's. That's because me flying low tiers is SEAL CLUBBING. I am not going to have 1 of my top 10 flown planes be a tier 1 or 2 aircraft. I would be EMBARRASSED by that. I have no respect for people who do this. YMMV.

And look at my stats. Then tell me I'm all about the win rate.  :teethhappy:


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Captain_Rownd #15 Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:56 PM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 14 January 2020 - 01:46 PM, said:

 

Wow. Wrong. They gave away the Spad and XP-31. Kept the 31, hated the Spad and rage sold it.

 

Heathen! 

 

 


Favorites:

SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714


Captain_Underpants53 #16 Posted 15 January 2020 - 01:16 AM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 14 January 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

 

Wow. Wrong. They gave away the Spad and XP-31. Kept the 31, hated the Spad and rage sold it.

No, I rarely fly below tier 4, some 3's. That's because me flying low tiers is SEAL CLUBBING. I am not going to have 1 of my top 10 flown planes be a tier 1 or 2 aircraft. I would be EMBARRASSED by that. I have no respect for people who do this. YMMV.

And look at my stats. Then tell me I'm all about the win rate.  :teethhappy:

SEAL CLUBBING is such a socially unacceptable term.  I much prefer Bakin' Tater Tots!  It doesn't bring to mind those images of poor baby seals getting their brains beat out!

 

:(


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Drunkenstyle #17 Posted 15 January 2020 - 03:26 AM

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:playing:

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 14 January 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

OP, the one other thing that I'll suggest is that you both identify what you consider as "fun" and then emphasize it.  I LOATHE the GAA playstyle (at least for tiers 4 and 5; hoping that it gets better).  Blowing up buildings, in my bombers, is oodles of fun.  Shooting buildings is like watching pain dry on grass as it grows.  I'd literally rather have a staring contest with a picture of a fish than play it.  So, I don't necessarily bother with GAA - I have specced out my Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, and Hw 129 B.  But, that is because I'm a masochist and I don't mind grinding.  Plus, it is a real hoot when I kill opponents in a GAA.

 

Understand that not all nations fun.  Not all planes in a tree are fun.  And the fun gets better as you grind up.  It would take money, to get me to play my Ta 183 and the Fw 252.  But, that doesn't mean that all Light Fighters are garbage or that all Light Fighters in the Germany tech tree are garbage.  PLUS, I used to hate my Thunderbolt but have recently dusted it off, to spec it, and have found that my hatred was my error in playing it incorrectly.

 

Ignore the outcome and accept that you are playing with AI bots and people bots that probably got a migraine figuring out how to turn on their computers.  I'm of the opinion that, if we still have VCRs, the aggravation in teaching people how to do a timed record would act as a massive human extinction and we wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

Agreed, I gravitate to planes and builds that I subjectively deem "not tedious". Turns out, having Engine Cooling available in Stock configuration usually makes the difference for me. Additionally, I love ordnance but might hate shooting ground targets more than you do.


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Yak-3, Me209A, I-250, BVP210, J7W1, Tempest, La-9

Ki-93, P-51D, Pe-2M-82, Me265, Fw190D, B-17D, IL-10


CorvusCorvax #19 Posted 15 January 2020 - 03:33 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 14 January 2020 - 11:28 PM, said:

 

  The XP-31 and SPAD are not an auto-win button.  They can be defeated. 

 

 

My Ar-68 deletes those guys on the regular.  It still comes down to how the planes are flown.  And the human pilots behind the screen.

When I see those guys, I am excited to be flying my Hs-123.  Let's just say that I have equal numbers of air kill marks as ground target marks.  NO airplane is an auto-win plane.  The P.V.3 comes close, but not if a FW-57 is in the air...



Vanillain #20 Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:02 PM

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I really don't think any plane guarantees a win, you never know what could happen. I have flown stock planes and gotten really lucky and have flown specialists on ideal maps and still lost. I have not spent a cent on the game, but have gotten some premiums in crates and have earned some like the xp55, vampire and that yak they had recently, and I must say I've been kind of bumbed about every premium. I usually feel like I have a better plane in the tier which is on the tech tree.

 

As far as the collision thing goes, I like it. It gives unmaneuverable planes some hope. I don't understand it when a fighter pilot gets all upset because he got "rammed", playing chiken with a bigger plane and not getting out of the way is not being rammed, it's stupid. If you don't want to get hit, just get out of the way! I once was legit rammed by a human flying a bomber 3 times in one battle! I didn't see him coming at all, his ramming was on point and I told him so in the chat, not sarcasticly, I was actually impressed, it's not as easy as it looks to ram someone who isin't flying directly at you like an idiot.







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