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Some Discussion About Clan Ratings


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Nachthexen_Tribute #1 Posted 09 January 2020 - 04:34 PM

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Got an idea, maybe a good one or not, but it could start fires here that would be good ones, really.  Some disputes could be settled, more dreamed up, would make the forum a more interesting place, clans in it for the competition would be in forum heaven, others can ... well, ... I dunno.

 

The idea is to, in each clan, take the active player numbers over a set amount of time (say 30 days), and come up with a  clan rating. Heck, have several columns: 10 days, 30 days, 90, whatever.  Those numbers would, of course, be "discussed" (raged about, ballyhooed, sang about, meme'd the heck out of, etc), and we would have our own little clan war battlefield right here.  TALKING ABOUT SOME DISCUSSIONS THAT WOULD BE HAD! :teethhappy:

 

Whatcha' think? Can that even be done?

 

Nach

 

 


Edited by Nachthexen_Tribute, 13 February 2020 - 06:32 PM.

I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

White_Widow18 #2 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

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Not horrible as an idea, as I said.

I would also say that I believe the RU server -has- clan wars that are community-driven. Something like that might be able to be scraped together? I dunno, we have a smaller playerbase so that might be beyond the scope of this server's capacity?

Nachthexen_Tribute #3 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:18 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 09 January 2020 - 11:08 AM, said:

Not horrible as an idea, as I said.

I would also say that I believe the RU server -has- clan wars that are community-driven. Something like that might be able to be scraped together? I dunno, we have a smaller playerbase so that might be beyond the scope of this server's capacity?

 

As I recall, there were several attempts at community based clan wars, and they were all catastrophic. Some people worked VERY hard on rules, times for events, really tried to make everyone happy. What I remember about it was significantly more arguing, some real life threats, name calling, quitting, and the DRACS winning anyway. :teethhappy:

 

Now that there are almost no humans playing, comparatively speaking, perhaps there would be a different outcome.  That is for a different thread, however.  I really would like to stay with this subject in this thread, if we could.  WW, would you like to start a thread on clan wars?  I will think about it if you prefer not to.

 

Nach


I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:20 PM

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The only community event we currently have (trikke's/fockewulf's Saturday Night Flyouts) is already sparsely populated. Apart from two or three full houses waaaaaaay back at the start, it's just the same seven or eight people beating each other up over and over. Certainly not enough for a full on clan battles.

 

A few guys (farquare and one other) tried to make a clan Leaderboard out of the previous Goblin Leaderboards but what that showed me, along with my experience with the Sat Night flyouts is that it will take something special to make all the clans sit up and take notice and the rules will have to be carefully managed so as to ensure one side isn't going to completely roflstomp the other

 

If you measure from sheer volume then OWSS takes the prize. They simply have the largest number of extremely active players and would beat all comers through sheer volume of participants. OTOH, HVAR is tiny but has the largest concentration of ridiculously broken pilots so while they would never win anything that required more than five people to be active every day, put them into a cage match with anyone and they'll just paint the floor with the opposition. 

 

And you'll just end up with a Leaderboard of people picking and choosing which stats make them look good. I think it'll be more trouble than it's worth and would require some compelling reason to get people to take it seriously, otherwise you'll wind up with seven to eight people playing and everyone else ignoring it


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:23 PM

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What you - could - try is come up with a set of rules that you can present to blindfold and the community team and pitch it as something Wargaming could run rather than the constant personal Leaderboards. See if you can get them to sponsor some nice prizes so there's actually a reason for clan members to participate 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Nachthexen_Tribute #6 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:39 PM

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I completely agree with you Foxx.  Right now it seems a waste of time and effort.  I am thinking some people could make it interesting, no matter how sparsely the population is.  As far as getting stomped on, so what?  Someone wins, someone loses, we fight on.  

 

If we start here on the forum with Stat Clan Wars, just who is doing better at what, that would be a start.  WHo has most actives, whose win% is better, who has more dmg, more battles, like that, and post it for discussion.  Maybe the rest would follow, like a mini clan wars, whatever. Not thought this out a lot, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.

 

Clan stats would be posted and discussed no matter if they want it to or not.  Discussions would ensue (arguments), new forum interest (a little maybe) would ensue, maybe some real in game battles to settle issues, etc ... like that. My brain is already coming up with ideas........

 

Nach

 

 

 


I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

Captain_Underpants53 #7 Posted 09 January 2020 - 05:44 PM

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My brain hurts.

 

:hiding:

 

Edited to elaborate.  I think this would almost certainly descend into flame wars and name calling, insult and provocation.  The usual suspects would crawl out from under the bridge to throw fuel on the fire and fan the flames.  People would get posterior-hurt (including me) and over react (including me) and say things they (including me) regret later.

 

And to what end?  Just a big kerfluffle argument over subjective points.  No one would change their mind and would ignore all objective facts at odds with their viewpoint. 

 

In other words, this just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.


Edited by Captain_Underpants53, 09 January 2020 - 06:13 PM.

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #8 Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:25 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 09 January 2020 - 12:44 PM, said:

My brain hurts.

 

:hiding:

 

Edited to elaborate.  I think this would almost certainly descend into flame wars and name calling, insult and provocation.  The usual suspects would crawl out from under the bridge to throw fuel on the fire and fan the flames.  People would get posterior-hurt (including me) and over react (including me) and say things they (including me) regret later.

 

And to what end?  Just a big kerfluffle argument over subjective points.  No one would change their mind and would ignore all objective facts at odds with their viewpoint. 

 

In other words, this just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

and that is absolutely why we should do it

it would ignite a flame that could be riotous

many old clans would just love to participate

new ones would learn the ways of the old

it would have to be in an childish/adult only forum category

ohhh, the butthurt would be strong

hehe...

ohhh yes, very strong

:trollface:

tears and threats and whining would be off the charts

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:35 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 09 January 2020 - 01:25 PM, said:

and that is absolutely why we should do it

it would ignite a flame that could be riotous

many old clans would just love to participate

new ones would learn the ways of the old

it would have to be in an childish/adult only forum category

ohhh, the butthurt would be strong

hehe...

ohhh yes, very strong

:trollface:

tears and threats and whining would be off the charts

 


Swell!  Already under the bridge is depopulating!  :(


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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #10 Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:41 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 09 January 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:


Swell!  Already under the bridge is depopulating!  :(

nothing worse than a troll in denial

:amazed:


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Nachthexen_Tribute #11 Posted 09 January 2020 - 06:54 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 09 January 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

My brain hurts.

 

:hiding:

 

Edited to elaborate.  I think this would almost certainly descend into flame wars and name calling, insult and provocation.  The usual suspects would crawl out from under the bridge to throw fuel on the fire and fan the flames.  People would get posterior-hurt (including me) and over react (including me) and say things they (including me) regret later.

 

And to what end?  Just a big kerfluffle argument over subjective points.  No one would change their mind and would ignore all objective facts at odds with their viewpoint. 

 

In other words, this just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

 

View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 09 January 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:

and that is absolutely why we should do it

it would ignite a flame that could be riotous

many old clans would just love to participate

new ones would learn the ways of the old

it would have to be in an childish/adult only forum category

ohhh, the butthurt would be strong

hehe...

ohhh yes, very strong

:trollface:

tears and threats and whining would be off the charts

 

 

INDEED Ace.

 

There is the other side to this, and that would be those people who act maturely and have a great time with it.  In my head, I am already imagining to how this would lead to actual battles BETWEEN CLANS.  But first things first:

 

How would this be done? Who would be willing to do whatever has to be done to gather the info?  Is it possible, or do I need to put forth to Blindfold our desires and see if WG people would provide stats?

 

Nach


I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

HANNIBAL_LECTER_1 #12 Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:04 PM

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I like your enthusiasm but nothing that is organized by the community was or will be successful. An official event promoted by wargaming is needed to attract a significant number of players. I've seen all attempts since 2016 to revive this game by the community fail. I remember those community scrimmage in which my former clan participated with only 4 clans in the event. I remember my ex clan also organized a scrimmage in which only 3 or 4 clans participated (although I must admit that the unpopularity of my ex clan had something to do with it maybe). I remember the events of "Roussos Phenomenon" (very cool guy), all of that was a one time thing or a few days at the most and then people quickly lost interest, not because the event itself was not entertaining, but because there was no official wargaming intervention.
I also remember that unfortunate attempt to bring together the latin community organized by the self proclaimed "unofficial administrator" of the latin community. He was also very enthusiastic and in fact he managed to contact someone from wargaming to sponsor the event and provide the winners with a prize (I think the prize was premium time). Only 18 people participated in that event!,(not to mention the event was poorly promoted) After we told this person it was not possible to do this kind of thing frequently and after he checked this situation with his own eyes, he disappeared from this forum.
Do you want to do this anyway? Go for it. I wish you luck guys.
Saludos amigos.

Nachthexen_Tribute #13 Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:21 PM

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View PostHANNIBAL_LECTER_1, on 09 January 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

I like your enthusiasm but nothing that is organized by the community was or will be successful. An official event promoted by wargaming is needed to attract a significant number of players. I've seen all attempts since 2016 to revive this game by the community fail. I remember those community scrimmage in which my former clan participated with only 4 clans in the event. I remember my ex clan also organized a scrimmage in which only 3 or 4 clans participated (although I must admit that the unpopularity of my ex clan had something to do with it maybe). I remember the events of "Roussos Phenomenon" (very cool guy), all of that was a one time thing or a few days at the most and then people quickly lost interest, not because the event itself was not entertaining, but because there was no official wargaming intervention.
I also remember that unfortunate attempt to bring together the latin community organized by the self proclaimed "unofficial administrator" of the latin community. He was also very enthusiastic and in fact he managed to contact someone from wargaming to sponsor the event and provide the winners with a prize (I think the prize was premium time). Only 18 people participated in that event!,(not to mention the event was poorly promoted) After we told this person it was not possible to do this kind of thing frequently and after he checked this situation with his own eyes, he disappeared from this forum.
Do you want to do this anyway? Go for it. I wish you luck guys.
Saludos amigos.

 

Again, I agree with the negativity based on actual experience. :teethhappy:  I was there for every attempt (This is not my first account.)

 

What I am trying to do here is start off easy, slow, with posted results of active clans, with a winner or two depending on categories decided on.  I am looking to bigger things, but right now simply posting of clan stats in one place is the goal.

 

First question, is it possible for this to be done by someone in the community, or will WG need to be involved?  Will a script be needed, or can a person or two simply go to clan pages (if they are working correctly yet) and by hand pull up stats?  The first thing to discover is if it is possible.  Let's address that first and go from there.

 

Nach


I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

White_Widow18 #14 Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:59 PM

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Given that you'd have to track flighted vs. non-flighted to get a close approximation of an actual rating (in my opinion).... I don't know if it -is- possible the longer I think on it.

Nachthexen_Tribute #15 Posted 09 January 2020 - 09:04 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 09 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

Given that you'd have to track flighted vs. non-flighted to get a close approximation of an actual rating (in my opinion).... I don't know if it -is- possible the longer I think on it.

 

Keeping it simple is the first way to go IMO.  Let's don't complicate beyond basic numbers.  Simple stats to start with. Conversation points, talking points, general measurements.


I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

White_Widow18 #16 Posted 09 January 2020 - 09:12 PM

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View PostNachthexen_Tribute, on 09 January 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

 

Keeping it simple is the first way to go IMO.  Let's don't complicate beyond basic numbers.  Simple stats to start with. Conversation points, talking points, general measurements.

The problem is that there's a massive gulf between flying flighted and flying unflighted in terms of success rates. Simple or not, without a way to control for that? The stats aren't even necessarily good talking points, just my opinion there and I would ultimately partake of whatever someone came up with because it would be better than nothing.. but I see it being a likely major point of conflict in discussions.

Again, not opposed to the idea and as a concept (bringing more competition into the game) I think it's exactly the way everything should be moving, just not sure -exactly- how you'd come up with it or implement it. :/ I think SFMY may be correct in that this is outside the scope of something the players could do without WG aid. I'd dearly love to be proven wrong though and I'm thoroughly enjoying reading the ideas and hoping for some sort of movement somehow somewhere with it all!

Editing to add: And I would have given you an upvote, but I'm out of them for the day again XD


Edited by White_Widow18, 09 January 2020 - 09:13 PM.


12_inch_Hawk #17 Posted 09 January 2020 - 10:20 PM

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Clan wars are simple 12vs 12 in a training room on a random map.  Any plane, any tier, any pilot, any set up.  Basically anything goes.  Problem is there are probably only 3 clans that can field a team.  Every other clan would have to play short handed.  They either don't have the players or the players they do have don't have the t10 planes they would need.  Everybody knows how that would end anyway so there is no point.  HVAR would take the top spot, GW_S would come in second, and OWSS would get the consolation prize.  For clans to be competitive all these little clans need to start merging.  Unfortunately, the trend is going in the opposite direction.  All these new clans just serve to fracture the player base even more.  People who are butt hurt decide they are going to start their own clan.   

Nachthexen_Tribute #18 Posted 09 January 2020 - 10:33 PM

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View PostGreg_Pattinson, on 09 January 2020 - 04:20 PM, said:

Clan wars are simple 12vs 12 in a training room on a random map.  Any plane, any tier, any pilot, any set up.  Basically anything goes.  Problem is there are probably only 3 clans that can field a team.  Every other clan would have to play short handed.  They either don't have the players or the players they do have don't have the t10 planes they would need.  Everybody knows how that would end anyway so there is no point.  HVAR would take the top spot, GW_S would come in second, and OWSS would get the consolation prize.  For clans to be competitive all these little clans need to start merging.  Unfortunately, the trend is going in the opposite direction.  All these new clans just serve to fracture the player base even more.  People who are butt hurt decide they are going to start their own clan.   

 

We not talking clan wars here. Not any where near it.  Just postings of clan stats right now. Slow doowwwwwwn folks. :teethhappy: Let's just figure out how to get the stats right now.

 

Nach


Edited by Nachthexen_Tribute, 09 January 2020 - 10:34 PM.

I use Nach instead of Nacht on purpose. And I pronounce it with the English "ch", like catch.

DrSinister #19 Posted 10 January 2020 - 02:31 AM

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It was hard to do community driven events here on NA before 1.9.  We had 2 Community Based Clan Wars, which yes, had its own issues, but still did decently.  
 

A lot of the tournaments that were setup many teams did not join if any Dracs team showed up because, yes pre 2.0, Dracs won many tournaments and were definitely in the top 3 teams. 

I even tried to setup a tournament with gold as a prize coming out of my own and other Dracs pockets and the only stipulation was that no Dracs members could participate, only could officiate.  Even with that stipulation, only 5 teams signed up, so it that tournament did not happen.

 

The only time that I saw tournaments that happened a lot and did well were the Community Manager ones back in Closed Beta days.



Commodore_Sailracer #20 Posted 10 January 2020 - 12:59 PM

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Can I get this started?  A-S-S added 3 new members yesterday.  Can anyone beat that?

 

No?

 

Victory!  :medal:






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