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Ta 152 - The Albatross Around My Neck


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Commodore_Sailracer #41 Posted 26 November 2020 - 02:11 PM

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View PostPanoptic, on 30 March 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

I didn't enjoy the Ta 152 but I disliked the I-211 more. The I-211 has the exact same guns but worse maneuverability and altitude performance at tier 9. After a few losses yesterday I sold the thing and free XP'd the final 20k to unlock the I-215. I haven't bought the I-215 yet but I hope the guns are more reliable than I-211's.

 

Panoptic- you flew a battle against me yesterday in the Ta 152 (non-spec) and had the most impressive game I have ever seen in it- 16K PP and HoTS.  Since I'm struggling with that plane right now, it inspired me to come search the forums for info on how to fly it.  From this thread, it seems like nobody has figured out its secrets, except perhaps for you!  Are you willing to share any tips?  What gun configuration were you running?  My best battles in it have come when running only the 20mms.  The 30s never, ever hit anything.  I can be head on flying straight at a plane in sniper mode aimed right at the oncoming plane and get two or three shots off and do 0 damage.  In one battle in a turn fight with a heavy ADA I had to lead it so far that the plane was right at the edge of my screen and would occasionally go out of sight.  In the very same battle, I ended up chasing a MRF that was slightly turnier than me.  I landed shots when my sight was actually behind the plane.  Maddening!



trikke #42 Posted 26 November 2020 - 03:09 PM

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 sniper guns are tough, brother

 

it's a matter of target range divided by the angle that you're leading the target           that cannot be right, but it sure sounds like i know what i'm talking about 

 

i can't hit anything close up with the 30mms, i can't swing the nose far enough ahead        but if they're flying in a straight line a distance away, i'm ridiculously lucky

 

run training rooms with a bunch of fat slow targets, and after you can kill them easily, run 'em again with turny planes        you'll be able to snipe confidently 

 

 


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore       

hoom #43 Posted 26 November 2020 - 11:30 PM

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I got really dialled in near the end of my Specialisation grind during March of Nations.

Not sure what actually happened but suddenly the 30mms started landing like they were the Tu-1 45mms.

It was great fun :playing:


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

Commodore_Sailracer #44 Posted 27 November 2020 - 01:11 PM

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View Posthoom, on 26 November 2020 - 06:30 PM, said:

I got really dialled in near the end of my Specialisation grind during March of Nations.

Not sure what actually happened but suddenly the 30mms started landing like they were the Tu-1 45mms.

It was great fun :playing:

 

I've noticed that same behavior from the game on lots of planes.  You quickly get a plane up to elite status with all the top equipment, hate the plane and can't do crap with it and plan to rage sell it as soon as you get it spec'd, but as you grind through it seems to start getting better and better until it actually seems good by the time you reach specialist.  It's like the game adjusts how well you do in a plane based on the number of hours in it.  (XF-5U, Me 209A, MeP.1092 most recently come to mind.)  



SpiritFoxMY #45 Posted 01 December 2020 - 09:02 AM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 27 November 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

 

I've noticed that same behavior from the game on lots of planes.  You quickly get a plane up to elite status with all the top equipment, hate the plane and can't do crap with it and plan to rage sell it as soon as you get it spec'd, but as you grind through it seems to start getting better and better until it actually seems good by the time you reach specialist.  It's like the game adjusts how well you do in a plane based on the number of hours in it.  (XF-5U, Me 209A, MeP.1092 most recently come to mind.)  

 

A lot of this is getting the fingerspitzengefühl down to the point where you can range in subconsciously and you know your limits like the back of your hand. I used to be really good with the 38F but after a three month haitus, I'm still getting my feel back. My A-5 is pretty much on instinct these days.


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


CorvusCorvax #46 Posted 01 December 2020 - 09:05 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 26 November 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

 sniper guns are tough, brother

 

it's a matter of target range divided by the angle that you're leading the target           that cannot be right, but it sure sounds like i know what i'm talking about 

 

i can't hit anything close up with the 30mms, i can't swing the nose far enough ahead        but if they're flying in a straight line a distance away, i'm ridiculously lucky

 

run training rooms with a bunch of fat slow targets, and after you can kill them easily, run 'em again with turny planes        you'll be able to snipe confidently 

 

 


Like SFMY says, it's a matter of getting the timing right.  Frankly, it's like that with any of the derpy planes.  Tu-1, my first 3 or 4 battles, I can't hit ANYTHING.  Then, magic.  Delete a J8M from a kilometer away.  Derp down bombers outside of TG range.  Kill Spit IXs from almost outside view range.

  :)

 

It used to be, that the Ta-152 was my go-to T8 plane for general pwnership of the skies.  But the subtle nerfs WG added made it not nearly as fun.  I might drop down to the 20mm set-up, just to play the thing every so often.

And, really, if I want to tell the WHOLE truth, any time I am running cannon-equipped aircraft, I have to play a couple of battles to get a feel for where the guns are going.  My first battle after a long layoff with my Me-262 is always SO PAINFUL.  But then I figure out where the shells are going, and  all of a sudden, snapshot kills are easy-peasy.

I think this is why flying so many planes with so many gun types is a challenge sometimes.



wylleEcoyote #47 Posted 01 December 2020 - 09:09 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 01 December 2020 - 04:02 AM, said:

 

A lot of this is getting the fingerspitzengefühl down to the point where you can range in subconsciously and you know your limits like the back of your hand. I used to be really good with the 38F but after a three month haitus, I'm still getting my feel back. My A-5 is pretty much on instinct these days.


^ THIS ^

Pretty much any aircraft with 30+mm cannons (especially zeGermans, but the others too. Yes im talking about you, Adens. And no, you can go away,now)
have a period of adjustment for "getting dialed in" that is much greater than higher speed, lower drag 20mm shells. 

Mk 108s have slow shell speed. which not only limits their overall range but also their accuracy at that max range.
Especially when you factor in the drag you get from using a shell 50% wider than a 20mm
So you need ALOT more lead on the target. Especially with a shot that requires a high angle of deflection. 
THis is especially an issue when shooting another caliber at the same time (like a 20/15/13 mm) you wind up hitting with one or the other but not both.   
However the RoF is undeniable and if you throw enough poop at the wall something will eventually stick. 

Mk 103s use bigger powder charges . This trades off RoF (making room for bigger bullet in gun) for a shell that travels MUCH faster .
thus the better range.  And accuracy at that range.  Spoiler

 
But that lack of RoF and rapid overheat means you are not allowed to "walk the shells in" like in a Mk 108. 
So you either hit the first time and land all 3-4 shells or miss completely. 
Again high deflection angles arent your friend here. Nor are the very fast closing distances that high tier play can incur. 
The correct lead needed for that auto hit mechanic to trigger (if nothing else) changes too fast to track at close range and at long ranges can be determined by which particular pixel the server thinks your crosshair is on when the server realises you pressed the fire button.   

... until a few games go by and then just when the suffering is making you consider a rage selling ... everything comes together and you get the hang of the 30's 
 All of a sudden every time you shoot, you hit.  And every time you hit, it hurts.
it just takes some of us (a lot) longer than others.

either you derp a light fighter entirely or crit all of its controls..
or a heavy is wondering what just made that >CHUNCK< noise as it lost a third of its hitpoints ... another >chunck< noise! ..and its now dead and the kill cam shows that Ta152/Ho223 a klick away...

As for getting back in the swing of things with a P-38, the XP-58 is perfect for that, if you have one available.
The 58 flies just like the 38 which is nice. More importantly once you get used to landing the 4x 37's in the 58, it is 'exactly' like the 1x 37 (+ 4x .50's) on the P-38. 


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


Panoptic #48 Posted 04 December 2020 - 02:32 AM

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View PostCommodore_Sailracer, on 26 November 2020 - 07:11 AM, said:

 

Panoptic- you flew a battle against me yesterday in the Ta 152 (non-spec) and had the most impressive game I have ever seen in it- 16K PP and HoTS.  Since I'm struggling with that plane right now, it inspired me to come search the forums for info on how to fly it.  From this thread, it seems like nobody has figured out its secrets, except perhaps for you!  Are you willing to share any tips?  What gun configuration were you running?  My best battles in it have come when running only the 20mms.  The 30s never, ever hit anything.  I can be head on flying straight at a plane in sniper mode aimed right at the oncoming plane and get two or three shots off and do 0 damage.  In one battle in a turn fight with a heavy ADA I had to lead it so far that the plane was right at the edge of my screen and would occasionally go out of sight.  In the very same battle, I ended up chasing a MRF that was slightly turnier than me.  I landed shots when my sight was actually behind the plane.  Maddening!

 

My last few battles in the Ta-152 have been good. I chalk it up to better situational awareness and target selection.

The defining feature of the plane is the big guns. So I try to put out as much damage as I can. That means my primary targets are large planes. Bombers (B-32s for ex. slow and lumbering, easy to hit targets), heavies and GAA. Ta 152 has the altitude performance to keep up with bombers and heavies. If you ambush a heavy fighter and hit boost cooler you can delete that heavy in a few shots. Although it turns OK it is a bad idea to tangle with light fighters as shots can be difficult to land. Light planes are way down on my target list. At the same time one must avoid getting tailed by one. That is where situational awareness comes in.

 

My pilot has marksman I & II, aerodynamics expert and eagle eyed. For equipment I am running gyroscopic sight, lightweight wing frames and lightweight power unit.


Edited by Panoptic, 04 December 2020 - 11:57 PM.


Captain_Rownd #49 Posted 04 December 2020 - 03:30 AM

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"turns OK" is definitely not something I've ever experienced in the Ta 152. 

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SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714 :: Me 329 :: MiG-9


SpiritFoxMY #50 Posted 04 December 2020 - 03:42 AM

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***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


hoom #51 Posted 04 December 2020 - 01:16 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 04 December 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

"turns OK" is definitely not something I've ever experienced in the Ta 152. 


Well you can get it down to 9.5s turn, though a 10.5ish is more likely & perfectly adequate for most enemies.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

Captain_Rownd #52 Posted 05 December 2020 - 11:52 PM

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View Posthoom, on 04 December 2020 - 03:16 AM, said:


Well you can get it down to 9.5s turn, though a 10.5ish is more likely & perfectly adequate for most enemies.

 

Mine is 11.5s.  With guns that overheat and don't hit much I go for Marksman 2, plus it has polished skin and improved boost for interception and GTFO.


Favorites:

SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714 :: Me 329 :: MiG-9





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