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A nugget of wisdom hidden in an insult


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LeastWeasel #1 Posted 09 December 2019 - 06:36 PM

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Over the weekend, I had someone sass me over in-game chat - good natured or not, who knows? Tone is hard to detect.

 

”You’re the worst pilot in an honourable fight, but the best in a dishonourable one”

 

Thank you, Whomever that was.

 

I was flying in a newly-acquired Hurricane II (4th battle, I believe). I didn’t have speed,  and while it turns decent, it bleeds energy like crazy, so protracted maneuvering is a death sentence. The other pilot in question was flying a Spit I, can’t recall whether or not it was specialized. They downed me once, twice in a duel, and then I realized I was drunk on the power of quad 20’s. 

 

So I took a step back, and stopped getting stuck in. Checked the map. Two LF’s on the enemy team; anything else I can out-turn and finish quick. What was my mini-mission in cap circles? Don’t go alone. Stay out of reach of LF’s until they’re engaged. Don’t enter a fight you can’t finish.

 

Basically, for the new players: it’s not dishonourable, it’s awareness and positioning. That’s how you win duels before they start. We all begin flying with -and fall back in to- the dream of being the high-speed whirlwind weaving between the wreckage of enemy planes. That’s not always what your plane is built for, and that dream dies regardless when you run out of energy. 

 

Leave the “honour” to the Yak pilots (and me in my Fantome) left shaking their fists at the sky and cursing you to come down and turnfight them like a real pilot :p 

 

It can’t be said enough for whatever new pilots wander on to the forums: work the map, work your strengths.



Booze_Morgan #2 Posted 09 December 2019 - 06:55 PM

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People throw around that word "honour" sometimes the way they throw around the "f" word, "fair."  Battle has little place for civilian minded beliefs about honour and fairness.  It is about strategy, winning, surviving, out thinking your opponent, ...  like that.  These battles ain't gentlemens' duels.  They are hard fought battles between the minds of pilots and their various planes and uses, against the same on the other side.  These battles are kill early, kill often, and cap early and often brawlish conflicts and confrontations in a struggle to win a battle, not to curry noble favor from social media or whatever dreamed-up-from-air platform that tries to insert delicate sensibilities into pixel bloody confrontations.

 

Booze


Edited by Booze_Morgan, 09 December 2019 - 08:14 PM.

Spoiler

 


LeastWeasel #3 Posted 09 December 2019 - 07:37 PM

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Yep. You said it, Booze. You gotta remember your battlefield is the... the whole battlefield. Positioning and awareness, picking the right fights.

Captain_Underpants53 #4 Posted 09 December 2019 - 08:51 PM

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All's fair ,,,,,,,,,,,
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Maqor #5 Posted 09 December 2019 - 08:55 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 09 December 2019 - 06:36 PM, said:

Over the weekend, I had someone sass me over in-game chat - good natured or not, who knows? Tone is hard to detect.

 

”You’re the worst pilot in an honourable fight, but the best in a dishonourable one”

 

Thank you, Whomever that was.

 

I was flying in a newly-acquired Hurricane II (4th battle, I believe). I didn’t have speed,  and while it turns decent, it bleeds energy like crazy, so protracted maneuvering is a death sentence. The other pilot in question was flying a Spit I, can’t recall whether or not it was specialized. They downed me once, twice in a duel, and then I realized I was drunk on the power of quad 20’s. 

 

So I took a step back, and stopped getting stuck in. Checked the map. Two LF’s on the enemy team; anything else I can out-turn and finish quick. What was my mini-mission in cap circles? Don’t go alone. Stay out of reach of LF’s until they’re engaged. Don’t enter a fight you can’t finish.

 

Basically, for the new players: it’s not dishonourable, it’s awareness and positioning. That’s how you win duels before they start. We all begin flying with -and fall back in to- the dream of being the high-speed whirlwind weaving between the wreckage of enemy planes. That’s not always what your plane is built for, and that dream dies regardless when you run out of energy. 

 

Leave the “honour” to the Yak pilots (and me in my Fantome) left shaking their fists at the sky and cursing you to come down and turnfight them like a real pilot :p 

 

It can’t be said enough for whatever new pilots wander on to the forums: work the map, work your strengths.

 

This kind of mindset changed the Fw 190 D from a plane I hated to a plane I love. "Never fly alone" is not something I think when I'm flying my usual heavy fighters, Corsairs, or Republics. It is in a Fockewulf and the plane rewards you for it with better firepower than other multiroles and better handling than heavies (a lot like the Hurricane II). It just doesn't have the speed or turning to fly itself out of as many bad situations as other planes.



legoboy0401 #6 Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:21 PM

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View PostMaqor, on 09 December 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

This kind of mindset changed the Fw 190 D from a plane I hated to a plane I love. "Never fly alone" is not something I think when I'm flying my usual heavy fighters, Corsairs, or Republics. It is in a Fockewulf and the plane rewards you for it with better firepower than other multiroles and better handling than heavies (a lot like the Hurricane II). It just doesn't have the speed or turning to fly itself out of as many bad situations as other planes.


Maybe that kind of mindset would help the Mustangs?


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White_Widow18 #7 Posted 09 December 2019 - 09:32 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 09 December 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:


Maybe that kind of mindset would help the Mustangs?

It does. A flighted pair of F-86s may arguably be the most dangerous set at T10... I realize that's the big brother to the mustangs.. but same concepts

 



crzyhawk #8 Posted 10 December 2019 - 12:50 AM

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Nothing dishonorable about that.  Spitfires want to drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  If you fight on their terms, you will lose.  Fight on terms they dislike rather than terms YOU dislike.

 

EDIT:  One of my sergeants in the Army once told me that if we ever found ourselves in a fair fight, we planned the mission poorly.  It was a good observation and has stuck with me for more than a few years.


Edited by crzyhawk, 10 December 2019 - 12:53 AM.

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USA: XP31; F11C-2; YP29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; XFL; XF4U-1; P39N; P-47B; F4U-1,-4ROC: Hawk II; Ki43c; Tomahawk IIb; P51K |

UK: Goldfinch; Skua, Type 224; Wirraway; Fantome; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Seafang; Vampire Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


SpiritFoxMY #9 Posted 10 December 2019 - 01:37 AM

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I'm a terrible pilot who takes pride in picking my fights so how bad I actually am at the whole "dogfighting" thing doesn't show through.

 

Jumping into a turnfight is like volunteering for a Mexican Standoff. Just don't. 


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And a laurel to crown each end


crzyhawk #10 Posted 10 December 2019 - 02:43 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 09 December 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm a terrible pilot who takes pride in picking my fights so how bad I actually am at the whole "dogfighting" thing doesn't show through.

 

Jumping into a turnfight is like volunteering for a Mexican Standoff. Just don't. 


Given the Dogfighter can do nothing about a picky energy fighter...how's that bad?  I dogfight because I am not good enough to energy fight.  If dogfighting was worthwhile, the best pilots like yourself, would be doing it.


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UK: Goldfinch; Skua, Type 224; Wirraway; Fantome; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Seafang; Vampire Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

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trikke #11 Posted 10 December 2019 - 02:44 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 09 December 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm a terrible pilot who takes pride in picking my fights so how bad I actually am at the whole "dogfighting" thing doesn't show through.

 

Jumping into a turnfight is like volunteering for a Mexican Standoff. Just don't. 

 

turnfighting is like a physics science project... changing one variable at a time, of the speed-weight-lift components

 

I lose a lot of turnfights, frankly i think that it's such a time sink that I often just turn away and try to dive away

 

I'll never forget the first time a guy tried to take me vertical, both of us in 109Bs.     it was exhilarating


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GonerNL #12 Posted 11 December 2019 - 11:13 AM

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View PostBooze_Morgan, on 09 December 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

These battles ain't gentlemens' duels.  

 

Far from it ... I have to admit that many (most?) kills are from shooting pilots that are trying to shoot someone else. Backshooting ...

The real dogfights are more fun, but can take ages when both pilots know their plane.


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wylleEcoyote #13 Posted 11 December 2019 - 10:55 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 09 December 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:


Maybe that kind of mindset would help the Mustangs?


Oh absolutely. I've said this elsewhere; but it is worth repeating.

American fighters are consistently good at having horsepower to spare.
As they go to higher altitudes less and less planes can keep up with all that energy recovery. 

Spoiler


... this is not an OP buff however. it is a necessity. The mustang guns have the worst range and alpha and best sustained damage for their plane type.
You NEED that extra get up and go to get on someones six. AND to stay there (In spite of all their mad manuvering) long enough for Ma Deuce to burn through their hp pool. 

And as we know sitting on someones 6 taking a long time to kill them is how you yourself get targeted and killed.

Spoiler


This is where having a buddy comes in. If the two of you are willing to focus fire your targets; then all of a sudden the game changes.
The two of you working together will out DPS any light fighter and more than a few MultiRoles as well.
Any bomber or heavy in the area is only alive because you allow it.
Because killing them takes about the same amount of time that it takes to read this sentence out loud. 
 
Voice comms are super helpful but a flight can get by with preset hot-key chat commands.


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

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crzyhawk #14 Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:46 PM

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The Mustangs imo, suck.  They either need more maneuverability or more firepower.  I don't think I have ever seen a specialist Mustang on the enemy team and thought to myself, oh noes, they have a Mustang.  The H seems to be OKish, but the A and D are awful.  If I could put the 4 20mm from my Mustang Ia on the P-51D, it would be amazing, or if I could turn it a bit better to keep the 6 fifites on target it would be pretty alright.

Edited by crzyhawk, 14 December 2019 - 10:46 PM.

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Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


desert786 #15 Posted 10 January 2020 - 12:16 AM

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my trademarked insult; "have you tried capping"

 

this is a very useful recommendation, in no way an insult. yet, I feel, people have yet to understand this nugget of wisdom.



CorvusCorvax #16 Posted 10 January 2020 - 01:08 AM

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View Postdesert786, on 10 January 2020 - 12:16 AM, said:

 in no way an insult.

 

 LOL, sure.

 

 



desert786 #17 Posted 10 January 2020 - 09:41 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 09 January 2020 - 05:08 PM, said:


 

 

 LOL, sure.

 

 

ah! i see some who has competency issues has spoken up.

 

you fell right into my trap.



Captain_Underpants53 #18 Posted 10 January 2020 - 10:36 PM

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I think telling these players on this thread to try capping is preaching to the choir.  They are already well aware of it.  Maybe the newcomer's sub-forum could benefit from this little nugget of wisdom?
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Bobby_Tables #19 Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:02 AM

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 ...

 

Sorry, wrong thread, my bad.  


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 11 January 2020 - 01:05 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #20 Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:15 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 10 January 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

I think telling these players on this thread to try capping is preaching to the choir.  They are already well aware of it.  Maybe the newcomer's sub-forum could benefit from this little nugget of wisdom?

Oops, my bad.  This IS the newcomers forum.  I plead creeping senility.

 

Now if we could only lead the newcomers (mules) to the water (nuggets).


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