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World Of Warplanes - Ju 87 G Stuka please wg make a bomber version

stuka bomber ga

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White_Widow18 #41 Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:06 PM

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I must be the only person who thinks the Russian GAA are junk compared to the German ones. All the way through.

wylleEcoyote #42 Posted 10 December 2019 - 06:22 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 09 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Well, ultimately, the Ju 87 G that SHOULD have been, but isn't, would have replaced the 2x 20mm guns with 2x 30mm guns and the bomb load would have increased from 500 lbs to 1000 lbs and the engine would have been the Jumo J (not the P).  So, you could hypothetically have a premium tier 5 Stuka Ju 87 G prototype w/ 4x 250 lb bombs.  That would satisfy the want for a Stuka dive bomber.



If i were gonna go with a premium stuka with a bomb focus... I'd go with the C(arrier) variant. Probably at tier 4.
What you are describing could be as much as a tier 6 with all that bomb load combined with manageable cannons on an airframe that is more manuverable but not as fast as the Ju 88 P.

Maybe weight concerns; specifically overloading or the lack thereof,  should be the 'meta' of a proposed Stuka line.
its all hypothetical. but...

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 10 December 2019 - 06:29 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


wylleEcoyote #43 Posted 10 December 2019 - 06:28 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 09 December 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

I must be the only person who thinks the Russian GAA are junk compared to the German ones. All the way through.

Agreed. I have the Germans to tier 9 and the russians to tier 6. I very much prefer ze germans and their "guns+just enough bombs to crack stubborn hard targets" meta. 

My experience with the Russian line is rather lackluster unless the Female pilot is used to set instant fires...


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


LMG #44 Posted 10 December 2019 - 09:40 PM

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View PostFour_Leaf_Tayback, on 08 December 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

I think I understand why they chose the Stuka that they chose.  

 

The baseline Stuka of WWII early days carried one good bomb and two really sucky bombs.  That, plus, as stated earlier, the guns were practically worthless.  

 

So, what you are asking for is a Tier 3 plane.  There are plenty of Tier 3 GAs that you can choose from.  What exactly about the bomb carrying Stuka do you want?  You cannot get bombs + the cannon as that was not a thing.  Not even in prototype from what I have read.  So...  A GA with one good bomb, two tiny inconsequential bombs and two little pew-pew guns.  Only way this could work is if the bomb reload speed is like 30 seconds, and I don't see them doing that.  

 

Just curious, not trying to be critical, but the Stuka was pretty much obsolete once WWII started in earnest.  So the "tank killing" Stuka we have now has some utility in killing ground targets, but the standard start-of-WWII Stuka would be mincemeat at Tier 5 and even, IMO at Tier 4.  

 

The reason why we have the G Stuka is because the line was introduced in during 1.x, a time where bombs and rockets did not recharge, so most of the ground pounding was done through gunfire. That's also kinda how the GAA stereotype of "must have big guns" came to be, as anything without big guns would be SoL as soon as it ran out of ordnance, especially considering bombs were often kept in reserve for bombkills or to destroy the enemy's HQ. Hell, having non-reloading ordnance was WG's primary excuse to not have bombers in the first place, as once they ran out of bombs they'd just be targets that poke back.

 

Sadly, as the game went into 2.0 the gun-only GAAs were not changed to keep up in the ground game, which leaves them in the state they are at now.


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Trauglodyte #45 Posted 10 December 2019 - 10:36 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 10 December 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:



If i were gonna go with a premium stuka with a bomb focus... I'd go with the C(arrier) variant. Probably at tier 4.
What you are describing could be as much as a tier 6 with all that bomb load combined with manageable cannons on an airframe that is more manuverable but not as fast as the Ju 88 P.

Maybe weight concerns; specifically overloading or the lack thereof,  should be the 'meta' of a proposed Stuka line.
its all hypothetical. but...

 

Definitely don't disagree.  I suppose that you could, in theory, just reduce the bomb load, to be more in line with tier 5 GAA IF they wanted to make a premium Stuka.  All of this, sadly, is posturing if they don't want to actually give us that.  Then, there is the cost driver of whether it is beneficial for them and/if if there are enough players that would shell out money for it.

 

EDIT:  Since there only two countries, with GAA, it is kind of hard to look at this.  The IL-2 has rockets, bombs, 2x 37 mm canons and 2x 7.92 mm canons.  Its bombs do 2,100 each (x2) and the rockets do 900 each (x8).  If we're looking towards German tech tree bombers, as guidance, there isn't anything that runs a 500 lb bomb.  The Bf 110 E runs 2x 250 lb bombs, with each doing 4,400 damage.  The Ju 287 carries 4x 1,000 lb bombs, each doing 10,000 damage. So, would it be out of the realm of balance if we had the Ju 87 G v-1, w/ 2x 30 mm canons and a single 10,000 damage bomb, when the IL-2 has bigger and better ground based guns and an ordinance that nets out to the same?  Would it be problematic if the Ju 87 G V-1 had 4x of the Do 217 M 250 lb bombs, at 4,400 damage each but STUPIDLY long reloads?  In either case, the Ju 87 G V-1 would have the benefit of better flexibility, in anti-aircraft capabilities, but would be strapped by weak ground impact, due to long reloads - I don't know that 2x 30s would be enough, during bomb reload.


Just a thought...


Edited by Trauglodyte, 10 December 2019 - 10:49 PM.


LMG #46 Posted 10 December 2019 - 11:50 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 10 December 2019 - 05:36 PM, said:

Definitely don't disagree.  I suppose that you could, in theory, just reduce the bomb load, to be more in line with tier 5 GAA IF they wanted to make a premium Stuka.  All of this, sadly, is posturing if they don't want to actually give us that.  Then, there is the cost driver of whether it is beneficial for them and/if if there are enough players that would shell out money for it.

 

Well, there's not many GAA players since WG kinda left the class in the dust. You either like soviet GAAs and/or german GAAs, or neither. There's little variety. Imagine how few players would play fighters if you could only choose Mustangs or Zeroes. Sadly, WG is very much against adding any more GAA lines for the time being, which at the current development speed might as well mean never. I've asked several times if there's plans for new GAA lines, adding that people have found enough aircraft to at least create a British and USA line, and I've been shut down each time with a simple "No". :(

 

As for premiums... well, all we have for GAAs are low tiers, one mediocre mid-tier that's decent enough to get the job done, and a bunch of high tiers too expensive for most people. We could certainly use more at mid-tiers (5-7), but their current reputation isn't in the best of places as is. Doesn't help that the newest GAA added was the Hs 129 A, and we all know how bad that thing is :sceptic:


Edited by LMG, 10 December 2019 - 11:52 PM.

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Trauglodyte #47 Posted 11 December 2019 - 02:05 PM

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View PostLMG, on 10 December 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

 

Well, there's not many GAA players since WG kinda left the class in the dust. You either like soviet GAAs and/or german GAAs, or neither. There's little variety. Imagine how few players would play fighters if you could only choose Mustangs or Zeroes. Sadly, WG is very much against adding any more GAA lines for the time being, which at the current development speed might as well mean never. I've asked several times if there's plans for new GAA lines, adding that people have found enough aircraft to at least create a British and USA line, and I've been shut down each time with a simple "No". :(

 

As for premiums... well, all we have for GAAs are low tiers, one mediocre mid-tier that's decent enough to get the job done, and a bunch of high tiers too expensive for most people. We could certainly use more at mid-tiers (5-7), but their current reputation isn't in the best of places as is. Doesn't help that the newest GAA added was the Hs 129 A, and we all know how bad that thing is :sceptic:

 

Did the US or Britain use GAA aircraft?  If they built it out, it would be primarily naval aircraft.  You could end the line with the Intruder and Corsair II, or something similar, and include the Sky Raider.  But, everything else would be Brewsters, Vultees, etc.

 

I doubt that my opinion is true, since I'm still a newbie, but I do wonder if they nixed the GAA line, both in part to the title not being overly popular (compared to WoT and WoWS) and the play style being extremely problematic, boring, etc.  I like the concept and, despite me saying that my beloved Stuka is a steamy pile, plan on playing out the rest of the German line.  But, the strict nature of the operational elevation, combined with turning like a freight train AND it taking so long to gain elevation and avoiding stall, makes life extremely difficult.  Hunting low level aircraft, in my tier 4 Fw, was amazingly fun.  Switching over to the 37 mm, in the Stuka, just made life awful.  I haven't played the "duck", yet, but I imagine it is going to be as problematic, given that you've got to balance the single 37 mm with 2x 20 mm and 2x 7.92 mm canons.  The Ju-88 P just looks odd but then everything opens up at tier 7.

 

Again, I could be wrong but I do wonder if they're hedging their bets, due to the overall labor of love involved in playing GAA.



LMG #48 Posted 11 December 2019 - 04:22 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 11 December 2019 - 09:05 AM, said:

Did the US or Britain use GAA aircraft?  If they built it out, it would be primarily naval aircraft.  You could end the line with the Intruder and Corsair II, or something similar, and include the Sky Raider.  But, everything else would be Brewsters, Vultees, etc.

 

I doubt that my opinion is true, since I'm still a newbie, but I do wonder if they nixed the GAA line, both in part to the title not being overly popular (compared to WoT and WoWS) and the play style being extremely problematic, boring, etc.  I like the concept and, despite me saying that my beloved Stuka is a steamy pile, plan on playing out the rest of the German line.  But, the strict nature of the operational elevation, combined with turning like a freight train AND it taking so long to gain elevation and avoiding stall, makes life extremely difficult.  Hunting low level aircraft, in my tier 4 Fw, was amazingly fun.  Switching over to the 37 mm, in the Stuka, just made life awful.  I haven't played the "duck", yet, but I imagine it is going to be as problematic, given that you've got to balance the single 37 mm with 2x 20 mm and 2x 7.92 mm canons.  The Ju-88 P just looks odd but then everything opens up at tier 7.

 

Again, I could be wrong but I do wonder if they're hedging their bets, due to the overall labor of love involved in playing GAA.

 

Both of the plausible future GAA lines have since been burried in the Suggestions subforums. Out of the top of my head, the UK line was mostly composed of Fairey aircraft, having a focus on handling and reload speed, while the USA line had a very heavy focus on overwhelming amounts of ordnance. Either would have added some much needed variety to the pool of ground pounders, but no one from WG has show any interest on them as far as I can tell.

 

And yes, they both technically used Ground Attack Aircraft, although their naming was a bit looser than Soviet and German ones. For example, the Typhoon was equipped to fill a ground attack role in its later half of its lifespan, and the A-26B is also technically an attack aircraft (hence the A in the name). The current German GAA line also has multiple planes that were considered Heavy Fighters back in WoWP's beta (with the Me P.1102 B still being regarded by the players as a low altitude heavy). If they can turn heavy fighters into GAAs, and Attack Aircraft into Bombers and Multiroles, there's no reason we can't have more GAAs in the game as is.

 

Oh, and the Duck plays quite differently from the Stuka. Since it only has one 37, you only snipe the Soft Buildings from afar, and close the gap when dealing with the tougher Armored Buildings to hit them with all your guns. It's also one of the deadliest planes to head-on at tier 5 thanks to those back-up guns being able to hit stuff; god help them if the 37 hits too. It also happens to be the fastest tier 5 GAA, as well as the most helpless if someone gets on its tail thanks to a lack of reargun and bombs once specialized, relying solely on outside help or fancy flying :ohmy:

 

And here's a fun fact, since GAAs are so prone to stalling, they also happen to be able to do Hammerhead turns and Stall turns quite easily. Just point the nose up, hit the brakes and flaps, maybe add some roll, and that's it. You can catch some people off-guard with that trick. In particular, the Duck is probably the best plane to learn how to do those; the thing often does them on accident simply by stalling :B


Edited by LMG, 11 December 2019 - 04:24 PM.

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Trauglodyte #49 Posted 11 December 2019 - 05:14 PM

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View PostLMG, on 11 December 2019 - 04:22 PM, said:

 

Both of the plausible future GAA lines have since been burried in the Suggestions subforums. Out of the top of my head, the UK line was mostly composed of Fairey aircraft, having a focus on handling and reload speed, while the USA line had a very heavy focus on overwhelming amounts of ordnance. Either would have added some much needed variety to the pool of ground pounders, but no one from WG has show any interest on them as far as I can tell.

 

And yes, they both technically used Ground Attack Aircraft, although their naming was a bit looser than Soviet and German ones. For example, the Typhoon was equipped to fill a ground attack role in its later half of its lifespan, and the A-26B is also technically an attack aircraft (hence the A in the name). The current German GAA line also has multiple planes that were considered Heavy Fighters back in WoWP's beta (with the Me P.1102 B still being regarded by the players as a low altitude heavy). If they can turn heavy fighters into GAAs, and Attack Aircraft into Bombers and Multiroles, there's no reason we can't have more GAAs in the game as is.

 

Oh, and the Duck plays quite differently from the Stuka. Since it only has one 37, you only snipe the Soft Buildings from afar, and close the gap when dealing with the tougher Armored Buildings to hit them with all your guns. It's also one of the deadliest planes to head-on at tier 5 thanks to those back-up guns being able to hit stuff; god help them if the 37 hits too. It also happens to be the fastest tier 5 GAA, as well as the most helpless if someone gets on its tail thanks to a lack of reargun and bombs once specialized, relying solely on outside help or fancy flying :ohmy:

 

And here's a fun fact, since GAAs are so prone to stalling, they also happen to be able to do Hammerhead turns and Stall turns quite easily. Just point the nose up, hit the brakes and flaps, maybe add some roll, and that's it. You can catch some people off-guard with that trick. In particular, the Duck is probably the best plane to learn how to do those; the thing often does them on accident simply by stalling :B

 

I personally think that the only thing that WarGaming got right was the Light Fighters and Bombers.  Everything else, in between, is really that silliness that was the generalized fighter/bomber.  Germany, I know, had a dedicated concept that was the bomber killer, named Zerstörer.  But, even the Lightning, Chain Lightning, Twin Mustang, etc. were more endurance based fighter/bombers.  You could argue that they swayed towards hunting bombers.  But, if my recollection is correct, the Mustang Me 109 both performed better, in terms of bringing down bombers, than their "heavy fighter" brethren.

 

As to the hammerhead maneuver, I accidentally discovered that early on.  It's great with low tier heavies and GAA (haven't gotten past tier 5) and it does make for a surprise.  Though, it is the unintentional "oh crap!" stall that gets me.  Plus, I'm still trying to break myself in thinking that I can do everything in every platform.  The boom, zoom, and turn isn't a thing yet I keep trying (and failing) before remembering.



wylleEcoyote #50 Posted 12 December 2019 - 07:33 PM

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A lot of y'all are giving me grief over using the 50 kg bombs. They are weak, you say. Id rather another big bomb, you say.
I dont agree with this line of thinking.
My long winded explanation follows .  If you dont have the time, or just dont care;  dont bother with reading below the line. and scroll on to the next post.

 


Just keep scrolling, just keep scrolling ...

 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 12 December 2019 - 07:35 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


Captain_Rownd #51 Posted 12 December 2019 - 09:10 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 December 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:


 


The whole point of dive bombing; both IRL and in game, is to accurately place the bomb. In a way that most other planes just cant do.

 

 

  Bombs are already accurate enough for their blast radius, and it would be suicidal to "dive bomb" in a slow-moving vulnerable XP pinata like a Stuka

 


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LMG #52 Posted 12 December 2019 - 09:40 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 12 December 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

  Bombs are already accurate enough for their blast radius, and it would be suicidal to "dive bomb" in a slow-moving vulnerable XP pinata like a Stuka

 

They're accurate for GAAs since they're basically dropping them right on top of their intended target. For planes that fly higher, like Multiroles and Heavies, it's best to drop their ordnance while diving for maximum accuracy. Otherwise the accuracy tends to be pretty poor. Same with non-specialized bombers


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Trauglodyte #53 Posted 12 December 2019 - 10:22 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 12 December 2019 - 07:33 PM, said:

A lot of y'all are giving me grief over using the 50 kg bombs. They are weak, you say. Id rather another big bomb, you say.
I dont agree with this line of thinking.
My long winded explanation follows .  If you dont have the time, or just dont care;  dont bother with reading below the line. and scroll on to the next post.

 


Just keep scrolling, just keep scrolling ...

 

 

I don't really mind the 50 lb (or kg? not sure what metric WG uses for WoWP) bombs.  The disparity in lethality, between them and 250 lb/kg bombs are negligible.  I only ever floated it out there, for the sake of reality/history.



Captain_Rownd #54 Posted 12 December 2019 - 10:38 PM

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View PostLMG, on 12 December 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

 

They're accurate for GAAs since they're basically dropping them right on top of their intended target. For planes that fly higher, like Multiroles and Heavies, it's best to drop their ordnance while diving for maximum accuracy. Otherwise the accuracy tends to be pretty poor. Same with non-specialized bombers

 

Stuka isn't a multirole or heavy.   The plane would have to fly very differently to become a multirole dive bomber. 

 


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LMG #55 Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:22 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 12 December 2019 - 05:38 PM, said:

Stuka isn't a multirole or heavy.   The plane would have to fly very differently to become a multirole dive bomber. 

 

Well, it has to be an in-game class. It's either a GAA, a Multirole or a Bomber, and honestly idk what WG would pick :ohmy:


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wylleEcoyote #56 Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:38 AM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 12 December 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

 

  Bombs are already accurate enough for their blast radius, and it would be suicidal to "dive bomb" in a slow-moving vulnerable XP pinata like a Stuka

 

 
 For the sake of some much needed GTFO goodness; what if teh dev's let dive bombers keep; or at least loose very slowly, whatever dive speed they manage to accrue in a dive?

lemmie explain ...


 But enough of hypothetical "What would WeeGee do...?"

In any event; when it comes to GAA being xp pinatas, you make a very good point..
Most wartime dive bombers were helpless within contested airspace to such an extent as to be useless without a combat air patrol to keep them safe.
And with this game being all about "contested airspace" ... it makes sense that such poorly armed (for air-to-air) strike aircraft have been ignored up till now for other options. 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 13 December 2019 - 02:36 AM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is on par with my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
 I start on the right track and then sometimes make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F/G, Fw 159, He 51/100 D-1/112, Ho 229, Me 209 A/ v4/ P.1092, Spit.V DB605​, Ta 152 
Ki-5/8/10/27/43-I/43-II, A4N, A5M, A6M1, Hurricane Ia, Bristol 146, Spitfire Vb IM, DH.100 F1, I-17Yak-1MiG-3
P-23/36/36C/39N-1/40, XP-31/36F/55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/26/35/43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
TyphoonAr 65, Fw 190 A-1/5/D, BV P.210/212.03, I-5/15/16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, XP-58P-82 B, Beaufighter/ VAo 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Bf 109 Z, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: BSh-2, Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Fw 189 C, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: B-17 G, Do 17 Z / 217 M, He 111 H2, Ju 288 C, Pe-2 

 


White_Widow18 #57 Posted 13 December 2019 - 04:09 AM

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Stuka pilot I lost to tonight.
:)

JS, the plane seems to do quite well in spec... which meshes with my own memory thereof.

Trauglodyte #58 Posted 13 December 2019 - 05:45 PM

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I'll take buffs.

 

View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 13 December 2019 - 04:09 AM, said:



Stuka pilot I lost to tonight.
:)

JS, the plane seems to do quite well in spec... which meshes with my own memory thereof.

 

I have seen videos of 20k PP Stuka games.  I've had a 7k game, pre-specialization, but I call that a b.s. game.  In my thoughts, though big GAA games come from strictly nobody going "Hey!  There is a GAA over there.  Should we just keep ignoring and picking flowers in left field or, I don't know, go look at and debate shooting in its general direction?"  For the life of me, I don't know how the Hell Stukas are successful, outside of multi-plant games with little to no counter-action.

 

I know that people bag on the Stuka and I have, too.  My overall angst, with GAA and even bombers, is how hyper specific they are.  Light, multi-role, and heavy fighters never have a moment, in game, where they're no longer viable.  There needs to be some level of quality of life buffing that needs to occur, to make the lower tiered GAA more comfortable and less elevation locked.  The 37 mm, and I imagine the Ju 88 P's 50 mm, is just so damned all or nothing and that is a bad thing to have, when you've got no speed, no elevation, and a bad "tickle me Elmo" turret in the back.  When I finally unlock the entirety of the German tech tree, I'm going to take my specced Ju 87 G and ramp those equipment slots up.  For the time being, she's going to sit on the shelf - can't afford the material usage when I've got other planes targeted.



White_Widow18 #59 Posted 14 December 2019 - 12:40 AM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 13 December 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

I'll take buffs.

 

 

I have seen videos of 20k PP Stuka games.  I've had a 7k game, pre-specialization, but I call that a b.s. game.  In my thoughts, though big GAA games come from strictly nobody going "Hey!  There is a GAA over there.  Should we just keep ignoring and picking flowers in left field or, I don't know, go look at and debate shooting in its general direction?"  For the life of me, I don't know how the Hell Stukas are successful, outside of multi-plant games with little to no counter-action.

 

I know that people bag on the Stuka and I have, too.  My overall angst, with GAA and even bombers, is how hyper specific they are.  Light, multi-role, and heavy fighters never have a moment, in game, where they're no longer viable.  There needs to be some level of quality of life buffing that needs to occur, to make the lower tiered GAA more comfortable and less elevation locked.  The 37 mm, and I imagine the Ju 88 P's 50 mm, is just so damned all or nothing and that is a bad thing to have, when you've got no speed, no elevation, and a bad "tickle me Elmo" turret in the back.  When I finally unlock the entirety of the German tech tree, I'm going to take my specced Ju 87 G and ramp those equipment slots up.  For the time being, she's going to sit on the shelf - can't afford the material usage when I've got other planes targeted.

This person did it with -me- countering them. My own score was higher. It's possible to do well in low tier GAA. My own scores in GAA are often insane and I win games against flighted pairs of bombers with my poor slow little GAAs. GAA require a lot of understanding of map terrain, cloud cover, positional awareness, etc. to rack out the points/chevrons/medals, but you can be quite scarily successful in them once you have every last bit of that memorized. The number of times I've picked off entire nodes from sitting -outside- or just barely in the node with long-range gun GAA or selective volleys of rockets.. only to turn around and disappear down a clouded valley before anyone can get to me or notice me is uncountable. The elevation locking isn't something I want to see change either.. I'm already sick of watching people try to go air to air as a primary role in GROUND attack aircraft. I do think most of the lower tier GAA need minor speed increases, but otherwise? I dunno.. I can pull a 60-70% win rate unflighted even in low tier GAA so I admit I also have a bias probably based around my own particular skills there. This is, in part, why I say that newer players should be listened to as much or more than the veterans. By that same token... if my GAA were stronger I don't think anyone would like it at any tier when I pulled one out.. so there has to be a balance that also includes the uber-skilled not getting the ability to simply overwhelm everyone else. Otherwise you turn the class into a meme machine.

GAA in particular though have been the focus of a great many re-balances and most of them have been focused on nerfing them.. now.. my opinion is that has been to cater to the fighter-jocks who have no clue how to do more than bounce around pegging things for a couple seconds with surprise/ambush tactics and no clue how to handle stuck-in/pitched combat.



Captain_Rownd #60 Posted 14 December 2019 - 01:27 AM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 12 December 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:



Stuka pilot I lost to tonight.
:)

JS, the plane seems to do quite well in spec... which meshes with my own memory thereof.

 

  Doesn't need to be Spec to score well if you're efficient at popping the tents and land some lucky shots on enemy GA along the way.

 


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SPAD S.510:: MiG-3 :: I-250 :: Ju 88 P :: He 100 D-1 :: Caudron C.714 :: Me 329 :: MiG-9






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