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Improve bombsight functionality for stick users


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LeastWeasel #1 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:47 PM

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Currently, the ability to zoom in bombsight view (scroll on mousewheel) is both locked out & unmappable when using a flightstick. Could this be addressed? I’ll concede that it may be optimal to just switch to a mouse and keyboard when flying bombers - but I’d love to see this function added to mappable actions.

Captain_Underpants53 #2 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:39 PM

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It already works for me and I use a joystick.  It seems set up that way by default.  It also zooms in with turret mode.

 

I wish we had an airspeed indicator in bombing mode.  A very traditional and critical thing for a bombardier, BTW.


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LeastWeasel #3 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:52 PM

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Ditto on the airspeed... and thank again for the heads up on the mousewheel! Athough I do still suggest that bomb/turret zoom is bindable - like, toggling “sniper view” on a bomber engaged in bombing/turret views should toggle zoom for those views...

Commodore_Sailracer #4 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:06 PM

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I didn't even know zooming was a thing.  I may play around with that tonight and see if I can map the mouse wheel to a rotary switch on my joystick via the joystick software.

 

+1 for airspeed indicator in bombing mode.

 

The bigger stick problem I have is the inability to steer in turret mode in bombers and attack planes.  I have mapped the roll, yaw and pitch keys to a hat on the joystick in bombing mode, but they don't steer- the autolevel seems to counter act those and return you to where you were previously headed.  At best it lets you temporarily shift a plane out from directly behind your rudder so you can shoot at it.

 

 



White_Widow18 #5 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:08 PM

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So.. in order to have the same control as a mouse/keyboard player.. you still have to use a mouse/keyboard and the joystick????

Because this is what I've always understood and that seems to be confirmed here?

If so.. JFC.. I always knew GAA/Bomber pilots with a JS had to juggle more with a bit more limitation in actual options.. but I never realized.
I'll more than second the suggestion of an improvement.. or at least a warning sticker "Some plane types not optimized for Joystick Use"

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 03 December 2019 - 07:09 PM.


LeastWeasel #6 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:13 PM

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When I take the turret, I use one hand for the stick, one for the keyboard. A/D yaw, W/S throttle, Q/E pitch. Should map roll to Z/C & flaps to SPACE while I am at it.

 

What I’d really love is to just be able to keep my JS twist dedicated to yaw/rudder input WHILE in turret mode. I could do a lot with that alone.

 

Styg - outside of turret, though, JS is a dream. The only caveat is you need to make liberal use of snap-to-target & proper lock switching to maintain awareness. Switching hands for a quick RMB mouse freelook is a non-combat action when you have a spare moment. Bot commands still all on the F keys.

So I use: Stick (both hands, buttons and throttle on the base) for flight and bombing. Jumping to keyboard for comms and turret work. Mouse for freelooks. 

 

Some of us stick users are playing starcraft while spinning plates over here :p


Edited by LeastWeasel, 03 December 2019 - 07:21 PM.


White_Widow18 #7 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:17 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 03 December 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

When I take the turret, I use one hand for the stick, one for the keyboard. A/D yaw, W/S throttle, Q/E pitch. Should map roll to Z/C & flaps to SPACE while I am at it.

but aren't you having to use the mousewheel as well to zoom? Leaving you at 3 total controllers?



Captain_Underpants53 #8 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:18 PM

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Keyboard for tab view and mouse for zoom, turret or bombardier mode.  I have never figured out any way to map a key on the joystick for zoom, but then, why bother unless you don't have a scroll wheel?  The only drawback to the joystick that I can see is the lack of view.

 

I have keys on the joystick giving pitch and yaw in turret mode.


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SkyWolf__WM #9 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:25 PM

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I'm too stupid too zoom, or use any view other than the default. Been playing since before that stuff was available.  I'm old. I fear change.  :unsure:
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LeastWeasel #10 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:25 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 03 December 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Keyboard for tab view and mouse for zoom, turret or bombardier mode.  I have never figured out any way to map a key on the joystick for zoom, but then, why bother unless you don't have a scroll wheel?  The only drawback to the joystick that I can see is the lack of view.

 

I have keys on the joystick giving pitch and yaw in turret mode.

 

So far, I haven’t though to need zoom in turret mode - all my turrets thus far are sub-1000 meter ranges... so keeping on target is not too bad. Does zoom make a difference for you in turrets?



Captain_Underpants53 #11 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:49 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 03 December 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

So far, I haven’t though to need zoom in turret mode - all my turrets thus far are sub-1000 meter ranges... so keeping on target is not too bad. Does zoom make a difference for you in turrets?


To be honest, I haven't used it in turret mode for a long while.  So I really can't answer that.  But I will turn over a new leaf and try it again!


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Commodore_Sailracer #12 Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:58 PM

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Does zoom do anything for you in bombing mode?  I can release my bombs with what appears to be pinpoint accuracy and they still seem to land wherever they want, not where I aimed!

Captain_Underpants53 #13 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:25 PM

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View Postebp_si, on 03 December 2019 - 02:58 PM, said:

Does zoom do anything for you in bombing mode? I can release my bombs with what appears to be pinpoint accuracy and they still seem to land wherever they want, not where I aimed!


It does help accuracy, especially if you are way up there.


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Commodore_Sailracer #14 Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:42 PM

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I played around last night and was unable to use the Thrustmaster software to map the mouse wheel to any sliders or rotary switches on my throttle.  I do recall that my Saitek X52 had a small wheel on the throttle that served as a mouse wheel.  I never remembered it was there but would occasionally hit it and rotate it by accident and it would put me into sniper mode.  I'm assuming if I were in turret or bombing mode it would also have served the zoom function.  It's too bad the quality on that HOTAS was poor and I had to send it back, because it was a nice setup.

DrSinister #15 Posted 05 December 2019 - 12:29 AM

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When I was playing heavily I found using VoiceAttack for various bot commands worked great.  I even was able to get a generic head tracking via a camera to work for close to mouse free look while I used a joystick.

 

There might be a way to insert keymappings for Bomb Sight if its there in the mouse side.  In the past I have inserted lines of xml code into mouse and joystick to bring certain binds from each control type over to the other control type.



Captain_Rownd #16 Posted 06 December 2019 - 12:36 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 03 December 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:


It does help accuracy, especially if you are way up there.

 

Are you flying a B-1?  My bomb circle is usually about the size of the whole ground target cluster, so accuracy is not really a feature. 


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Four_Leaf_Tayback #17 Posted 06 December 2019 - 12:54 AM

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I stopped using a joystick before the bombers came out just 'cause I refused to buy yet another joystick that would burn out in 9 months.

 

Anyway, from reading this, it seems like it might help if you grew a third arm to play bombers in joystick mode.  

 

Someday, someone will come up with a flight battle game in VR.  And a year later, Chiropractors will be buying yachts.  


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CorvusCorvax #18 Posted 06 December 2019 - 05:20 AM

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View PostFour_Leaf_Tayback, on 06 December 2019 - 12:54 AM, said:

I stopped using a joystick before the bombers came out just 'cause I refused to buy yet another joystick that would burn out in 9 months.

 

Anyway, from reading this, it seems like it might help if you grew a third arm to play bombers in joystick mode.  

 

Someday, someone will come up with a flight battle game in VR.  And a year later, Chiropractors will be buying yachts.  


I just noticed your sig line, and LOLd.

 

The game has been optimized for M+KB, and WG has been saying this since the launch of 2.0.  For bombers especially, M+KB is the answer.  I understand using a joystick for the other plane types, but bombers are sort of "special" in their control requirements.  Especially since one of the most effective modes of flying them is in turret view.

 

Contorting oneself around to try and adapt a JS to this particular plane type sounds exhausting.  But I guess if you can map buttons on a JS to mouse scrolling functionality, then you could use the JS for control in every view, AND have the view you want, AND have zoom capability.  You'd think that scrolling could be replicated by button press...



Captain_Rownd #19 Posted 06 December 2019 - 10:41 PM

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View PostFour_Leaf_Tayback, on 05 December 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

I stopped using a joystick before the bombers came out just 'cause I refused to buy yet another joystick that would burn out in 9 months.

 

Stop buying cheap junk LOL. 

 

View PostCorvusCorvax, on 05 December 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

 

The game has been optimized for M+KB, and WG has been saying this since the launch of 2.0.  For bombers especially, M+KB is the answer.  I understand using a joystick for the other plane types, but bombers are sort of "special" in their control requirements.  Especially since one of the most effective modes of flying them is in turret view.

 

That's a fail from the start.  Joystick is flying.  Mouse is moving a cursor around on the screen.  If I'm not interested in flying why would I even bother with this game?  LOL, if I'm in "turret view" it's already too late. 

 

 

 


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SkyWolf__WM #20 Posted 07 December 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on 06 December 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:

 

Stop buying cheap junk LOL. 

 

 

That's a fail from the start.  Joystick is flying.  Mouse is moving a cursor around on the screen.  If I'm not interested in flying why would I even bother with this game?  LOL, if I'm in "turret view" it's already too late. 

 

 

 

 

This game does not warrant paying for a joystick.  I used to have a combat stick, a throttle quadrant, rudder peddles and a TrackIR.

Now I buy 3D's with a warranty for 28 bucks. When it starts mucking up, I call, and they replace it without asking for the return. Works out to 28 bucks for about 1.5 to 2 years of use. :amazed:


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