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Is the game dead and just full of trolls?


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Zenkoji1969 #1 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:28 AM

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I just started playing this week, and was thoroughly enjoying the game until I hit T4. Now, every match I'm in has 1-3 humans with maxxed out planes that seem to be 3-5x faster, turn tighter, with better guns, and my team gets wiped nearly instantly. Planes show up out of the blue and gun me down before I can even see them, I can't turn faster than ANY of them, and their guns seem to be 10x more powerful and more accurate.

 

So, is this the norm? If so, looks like I will be deleting the game since it feels like a complete waste of time and full of people bored and trolling the lower tiers just for "seal clubbing".



GeorgePatton #2 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:47 AM

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Complicated answer to your observations.

 

There are trolls at tier 4-6. There are also people who play there because the population at the higher tiers is nearly nonexistent. The trolls are usually flying 'specialized' spitfires. It can be pretty hard to tell the two apart, especially because most of the people who still play this game are veteran players who have been here for several years. It can definitely be tough, but if you're here for the love of warbirds I personally feel like it's worth taking the beating to get your planes specialized and in fighting shape. If you need help figuring all of the systems out, the WoWP Discord group is generally a good place to have conversations with people knowledgeable about the game!

 

 

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Zenkoji1969 #3 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:53 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 03 December 2019 - 12:47 AM, said:

Complicated answer to your observations.

 

There are trolls at tier 4-6. There are also people who play there because the population at the higher tiers is nearly nonexistent. The trolls are usually flying 'specialized' spitfires. It can be pretty hard to tell the two apart, especially because most of the people who still play this game are veteran players who have been here for several years. It can definitely be tough, but if you're here for the love of warbirds I personally feel like it's worth taking the beating to get your planes specialized and in fighting shape. If you need help figuring all of the systems out, the WoWP Discord group is generally a good place to have conversations with people knowledgeable about the game!

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

I appreciate the response.

 

Yes, they are almost all in Spitfires. So if that is the "best" plane at the Tier, and I am not playing the UK planes, then... what... I'm screwed? It just kills any fun of battling against comparable tiers or aircraft.

 

I played the German line because I wanted to get to the interesting jets they created late in the war (things like the Me-262, etc). But if all I am going to see are trolls, it makes advancing all that much more annoying and a mega grind that starts to feel less and less worth it.

 

And if the trolls inhabit the middle tiers just to... well, troll.... then take the grind through IV times three... and I am still considering shelving the game.

 

Or I just play a bunch of boring T1-3 planes to avoid the buttholes. Neither sounds all that exciting.

 

Just sucks that games are always ruined by people who are bored and just want to troll. I wish there was just a single-player mode to avoid idiots like that.


Edited by Zenkoji1969, 03 December 2019 - 12:54 AM.


legoboy0401 #4 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:54 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 02 December 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

I just started playing this week, and was thoroughly enjoying the game until I hit T4. Now, every match I'm in has 1-3 humans with maxxed out planes that seem to be 3-5x faster, turn tighter, with better guns, and my team gets wiped nearly instantly. Planes show up out of the blue and gun me down before I can even see them, I can't turn faster than ANY of them, and their guns seem to be 10x more powerful and more accurate.

 

So, is this the norm? If so, looks like I will be deleting the game since it feels like a complete waste of time and full of people bored and trolling the lower tiers just for "seal clubbing".


Oh, hi, didn't I see you in one or two of my matches tonight? Sorry, I wasn't having much luck at wins tonight if you were on my team, and sorry if I pawned you if you were on the enemy team. You probably saw me in my Hurricane II or P.V.3., correct?

 

the Hurricane II I am still grinding through, and the P.V.3 I was using for Daily Missions.


Edited by legoboy0401, 03 December 2019 - 12:55 AM.

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GeorgePatton #5 Posted 03 December 2019 - 12:58 AM

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Spitfires are pretty much 'easy mode' at tiers 4-6. Once you get beyond that the different playstyles (boom and zoom, turn and burn, hybrid) become much more 'different' and there isn't really a single plane that dominates in all three categories anymore. 

 

The German fighters and heavies are very much 'energy fighters' which means you'll want to keep your speed up and use long 'slashing' attacks rather than trying to turn fight people. Of course, unspecialized versus a specialized spitfire at tier 4 you're going to have a lot of trouble doing that. The other option is to try to play in off-peak times to avoid running into the same trolls over and over again.

 

 

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LeastWeasel #6 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:01 AM

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Hey there, welcome to warplanes! 

 

I'm the Fantome pilot you cursed out in that last match. So, from tier 4 up - that's where our small population lives. There's actually a fun thread kicking around here about what constitutes "seal clubbing", and the general consensus is, tiers 3 and below are a sacred space. So you'll find a lot of players in tier IV, There for the missions, mostly. 

 

This game has a learning curve - and breaking that wall into IV can be shocking. Specialized planes can look intimidating, but it's more whether or not the pilot can leverage their strengths. Fun fact: most (but not all) premiums are a little weak compared to a similarly-tiered tech tree plane; those are the ones to watch out for!

 

So how do you deal with these more experienced pilots? Be aware. Fight on your terms. Dogpile on them while they're distracted. Try to avoid them and wail on bots. Make them waste their time.

 

Oh, and ask questions! And be polite. 

 

So, you got a valuable lesson, in our game - one that will pay dividends as  you move up the tiers: LEVERAGE YOUR STRENGTHS, minimize your weaknesses. Flying a BF 109, you should be making fast, swooping attacks on anything turny-er than you, and only sitting on the tail of a less-manueverable plane if you know it's safe. You dropped to the deck, where the fight is in my favour. While the Fantome is widely considered a flaming garbage pile, it is hands-down one of the best pure turnfighters at tier IV, and while its cannon overheats quickly, it can be pretty punchy if you manage the trigger. 

 

So what could you have done? Stay high. Work the skies, and only come down to me if you have to. As a general rule of thumb, the more manueverable the plane, the lower the altitude, speed, and often durability. Don't get fixated with killing anything in one pass with the 109 - use your speed and take out chunks, keep your speed. if something's keeping up with you; well, maybe then you can out-turn it. 

 

Don't get frustrated. Get informed. Trust me, a Fantome at tier IV's got nothing on the coordinated duo of specc'd XF-90's waiting for us all at tier X. Some fights are gonna be hard, but the number one thing you can do is try to make sure they happen on your terms. 

 

Good luck out there, and don't stress.  



ThotCrime #7 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:16 AM

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Just a point of clarification here.  There are NO spitfires at tier 4.  They start at tier 5.  So, if you are being seal clubbed by spitfires, you are playing in at least tier 5 or above.

crzyhawk #8 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:17 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 02 December 2019 - 07:53 PM, said:

I appreciate the response.

 

Yes, they are almost all in Spitfires. So if that is the "best" plane at the Tier, and I am not playing the UK planes, then... what... I'm screwed? It just kills any fun of battling against comparable tiers or aircraft.

 

I played the German line because I wanted to get to the interesting jets they created late in the war (things like the Me-262, etc). But if all I am going to see are trolls, it makes advancing all that much more annoying and a mega grind that starts to feel less and less worth it.

 

And if the trolls inhabit the middle tiers just to... well, troll.... then take the grind through IV times three... and I am still considering shelving the game.

 

Or I just play a bunch of boring T1-3 planes to avoid the buttholes. Neither sounds all that exciting.

 

Just sucks that games are always ruined by people who are bored and just want to troll. I wish there was just a single-player mode to avoid idiots like that.

 

Spitfires are /easier/ not necessarily better.  They are bullies that beat up on weaker, newer players and bots.  I certainly would recommend them for newer players, but well flown heavies and German energy fighters make Spitfire bullies cry.  Spitfires and Zeroes want to play a turn game.  Make them fly in straight lines and they aren't nearly as tough.  If you try to turn fight them though, you /will/ die.


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Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:17 AM

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With 44 battles I don't think you have the experience to be very successful at Tier IV or, evidently. the patience.
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crzyhawk #10 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:18 AM

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View PostThotCrime, on 02 December 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

Just a point of clarification here.  There are NO spitfires at tier 4.  They start at tier 5.  So, if you are being seal clubbed by spitfires, you are playing in at least tier 5 or above.


his T4's can be bottom tier vs Spitfire I's.  The Bristols are spitfires in all but name.


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SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:24 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 03 December 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

I appreciate the response.

 

Yes, they are almost all in Spitfires. So if that is the "best" plane at the Tier, and I am not playing the UK planes, then... what... I'm screwed? It just kills any fun of battling against comparable tiers or aircraft.

 

I played the German line because I wanted to get to the interesting jets they created late in the war (things like the Me-262, etc). But if all I am going to see are trolls, it makes advancing all that much more annoying and a mega grind that starts to feel less and less worth it.

 

And if the trolls inhabit the middle tiers just to... well, troll.... then take the grind through IV times three... and I am still considering shelving the game.

 

Or I just play a bunch of boring T1-3 planes to avoid the buttholes. Neither sounds all that exciting.

 

Just sucks that games are always ruined by people who are bored and just want to troll. I wish there was just a single-player mode to avoid idiots like that.

 

See if you can flight up with someone to help make things easier. You're still new so there's a lot to learn. Jump on the Discord, talk to us and we'll get you there. The Germans are easily the best late-game nation and their early game is no slouch either but requires more sophistication in their playstyle to do well in.

 

As consolation, here's a video of me being a jerk to some noobfires

 

View PostThotCrime, on 03 December 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Just a point of clarification here.  There are NO spitfires at tier 4.  They start at tier 5.  So, if you are being seal clubbed by spitfires, you are playing in at least tier 5 or above.

 

You can get up tiered into tier 5 games from tier 4 so a tier 4 can easily run into multiple Spec skillfire flights in a day. I sure did. 


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Zenkoji1969 #12 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:33 AM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 03 December 2019 - 01:01 AM, said:

Hey there, welcome to warplanes! 

 

I'm the Fantome pilot you cursed out in that last match. So, from tier 4 up - that's where our small population lives. There's actually a fun thread kicking around here about what constitutes "seal clubbing", and the general consensus is, tiers 3 and below are a sacred space. So you'll find a lot of players in tier IV, There for the missions, mostly. 

 

This game has a learning curve - and breaking that wall into IV can be shocking. Specialized planes can look intimidating, but it's more whether or not the pilot can leverage their strengths. Fun fact: most (but not all) premiums are a little weak compared to a similarly-tiered tech tree plane; those are the ones to watch out for!

 

So how do you deal with these more experienced pilots? Be aware. Fight on your terms. Dogpile on them while they're distracted. Try to avoid them and wail on bots. Make them waste their time.

 

Oh, and ask questions! And be polite. 

 

So, you got a valuable lesson, in our game - one that will pay dividends as  you move up the tiers: LEVERAGE YOUR STRENGTHS, minimize your weaknesses. Flying a BF 109, you should be making fast, swooping attacks on anything turny-er than you, and only sitting on the tail of a less-manueverable plane if you know it's safe. You dropped to the deck, where the fight is in my favour. While the Fantome is widely considered a flaming garbage pile, it is hands-down one of the best pure turnfighters at tier IV, and while its cannon overheats quickly, it can be pretty punchy if you manage the trigger. 

 

So what could you have done? Stay high. Work the skies, and only come down to me if you have to. As a general rule of thumb, the more manueverable the plane, the lower the altitude, speed, and often durability. Don't get fixated with killing anything in one pass with the 109 - use your speed and take out chunks, keep your speed. if something's keeping up with you; well, maybe then you can out-turn it. 

 

Don't get frustrated. Get informed. Trust me, a Fantome at tier IV's got nothing on the coordinated duo of specc'd XF-90's waiting for us all at tier X. Some fights are gonna be hard, but the number one thing you can do is try to make sure they happen on your terms. 

 

Good luck out there, and don't stress.  

Yes, my frustration has gotten the better of me today, my apologies for that. I appreciate the explanation that the wall I was seeing from T3 to T4 wasn't just my imagination, and is basically where all the humans live (above T4).

 

I made an assumption that was incorrect (that folks hanging in T4-T6 were just seal clubbing... though it sure feels that way when the opposing team has 1-3 Specialist aircraft that pretty much wreck, and are in Hurricanes and Spitfires that out turn everything. Learning experience for me that hasn't been fun. The twisty-turny dogfights are what I was expecting, and getting outclassed because I'm in a slower, less-maneuverable BF109 has, in a word, sucked, lol.

 

Someone else mentioned above that the German aircraft are better at swooping in, but I find that doesn't fit my play-style preference (hard to get kills like that unless the opponent is already close to dead, and I feel like I'm kill stealing, in a sense). So it may be that I need to switch to another line of aircraft that suits my desire to play more close-in.

 

It's been a long time since I played any kind of aircraft game, guess I have a lot to learn, again.

 

Thanks all for the constructive replies, and again, apologies for my flameouts in game.

 

If someone has a link to the Discord, could you please post it? Thanks!


Edited by Zenkoji1969, 03 December 2019 - 01:37 AM.


crzyhawk #13 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:42 AM

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Glad to see that video did not feature any of my bad spitfire play.

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Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


BB3_Oregon_Steel #14 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:44 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 02 December 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

I just started playing this week, and was thoroughly enjoying the game until I hit T4. Now, every match I'm in has 1-3 humans with maxxed out planes that seem to be 3-5x faster, turn tighter, with better guns, and my team gets wiped nearly instantly. Planes show up out of the blue and gun me down before I can even see them, I can't turn faster than ANY of them, and their guns seem to be 10x more powerful and more accurate.

 

So, is this the norm? If so, looks like I will be deleting the game since it feels like a complete waste of time and full of people bored and trolling the lower tiers just for "seal clubbing".

 

Welcome to Wowps!!!

 

Ok ... so, despite what you have heard so far, there are certainly other people flying the mid tiers, me being amongst them that do not have years and years of experience nor 20,000+ battles.  Sure, I will run into players who will eat my lunch on a regular basis but in all the battles I've fought I've never run into the experience you seem to be describing. 

 

But here's what I see as a significant difference.  I chose not to rush up the tech trees but spent a considerable amount of time over several nationalities and types so that when I did reach tier IV, I already had the basics down, knew kind of what worked and what didn't so that I wasn't getting blown out of every game.  I even knew how to shooterate some of those specialized Spitfire players as well as how to have a shot at winning while keeping my distance from those superior pilots.

 

I shudder to think what it would have been like trying to deal with Tier IV bots after 44 games, much less real human players who know what they are doing. 

 

So, no.  The mid tiers are not populated with nothing but seal clubbers and the game is not hopeless.  You simply need to be willing to invest the time necessary to become competitive at those tiers.  Spend more time at tiers 1-3, learn what flaps and your airbrake can do for you, learn how to fly strategically to help gain the objectives you need to win, what situations to avoid and how and where to fly when you know there are superior pilots out there.

 

Remember, this is not an individual game, victories come to the team. Even if you are correct in your assumptions (which I would disagree with) your chances of having the seal clubbers on your side is about 50/50 so even if they are present, on average, they should balance out when it comes to which team actually wins the game. 

 

So, I'd encourage you to move down a tier or two, figure out the game, not just how to fly but how to win and work on that.  Then, after a few hundred more battles, see if everything is still as overwhelming as it appears to you with 44 battles to your name.  


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 03 December 2019 - 01:46 AM.

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crzyhawk #15 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:45 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 02 December 2019 - 08:33 PM, said:

Yes, my frustration has gotten the better of me today, my apologies for that. I appreciate the explanation that the wall I was seeing from T3 to T4 wasn't just my imagination, and is basically where all the humans live (above T4).

 

I made an assumption that was incorrect (that folks hanging in T4-T6 were just seal clubbing... though it sure feels that way when the opposing team has 1-3 Specialist aircraft that pretty much wreck, and are in Hurricanes and Spitfires that out turn everything. Learning experience for me that hasn't been fun. The twisty-turny dogfights are what I was expecting, and getting outclassed because I'm in a slower, less-maneuverable BF109 has, in a word, sucked, lol.

 

Someone else mentioned above that the German aircraft are better at swooping in, but I find that doesn't fit my play-style preference (hard to get kills like that unless the opponent is already close to dead, and I feel like I'm kill stealing, in a sense). So it may be that I need to switch to another line of aircraft that suits my desire to play more close-in.

 

It's been a long time since I played any kind of aircraft game, guess I have a lot to learn, again.

 

Thanks all for the constructive replies, and again, apologies for my flameouts in game.

 

If someone has a link to the Discord, could you please post it? Thanks!


Unfortunately, there's no way to make 109s out-turn spitfires and zeroes.  If you want to play a twisty turny style, you have to play a twisty turny plane.  German stuff are energy fighters, they win via speed and stealth.  As a Spitfire pilot, I can tell you that I fear 109s more than other light fighter, because if they know what they are doing, I am going to get farmed and there is very little I can do about it.

 

EDIT:  At higher tiers, turn fighting becomes less effective, because planes pile on more and more speed.  T5 is pretty much the high point of Spitfire dominance. They get more and more vulnerable to speed and heavy fighters in particular the more you go up.


Edited by crzyhawk, 03 December 2019 - 01:48 AM.

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UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


SpiritFoxMY #16 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:46 AM

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View PostZenkoji1969, on 03 December 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yes, my frustration has gotten the better of me today, my apologies for that. I appreciate the explanation that the wall I was seeing from T3 to T4 wasn't just my imagination, and is basically where all the humans live (above T4).

 

I made an assumption that was incorrect (that folks hanging in T4-T6 were just seal clubbing... though it sure feels that way when the opposing team has 1-3 Specialist aircraft that pretty much wreck, and are in Hurricanes and Spitfires that out turn everything. Learning experience for me that hasn't been fun. The twisty-turny dogfights are what I was expecting, and getting outclassed because I'm in a slower, less-maneuverable BF109 has, in a word, sucked, lol.

 

Someone else mentioned above that the German aircraft are better at swooping in, but I find that doesn't fit my play-style preference (hard to get kills like that unless the opponent is already close to dead, and I feel like I'm kill stealing, in a sense). So it may be that I need to switch to another line of aircraft that suits my desire to play more close-in.

 

It's been a long time since I played any kind of aircraft game, guess I have a lot to learn, again.

 

Thanks all for the constructive replies, and again, apologies for my flameouts in game.

 

If someone has a link to the Discord, could you please post it? Thanks!

 

Discord: https://discord.gg/BKNYxbb

 

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crzyhawk #17 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:49 AM

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Also, pilot skills will help you, as will enhancing your aircraft with equipment.

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UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


SpiritFoxMY #18 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:01 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 03 December 2019 - 09:46 AM, said:

Turny-plane lines are the UK Spitfires, Japanese Zeros and Kis and Russian Yak fighters. 

 

Actually I should add a caveat there since you seem like the kind of person who would care about things like this: almost all the best players in the game prefer boom-and-zoom over turn-and-burn and the spinny meta dies quite quickly past tier 5. 


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


crzyhawk #19 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:09 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 December 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

 

Actually I should add a caveat there since you seem like the kind of person who would care about things like this: almost all the best players in the game prefer boom-and-zoom over turn-and-burn and the spinny meta dies quite quickly past tier 5. 


This is a true statement.  The best players prefer zoom and boom because there is less their prey can do about it.  You can counter turning with energy, just like in real life.  Just like in real life, the turn fighters have to be expertly flown to do anything about it, and most turn fighter pilots aren't exactly the cream of the crop.

 

Honestly, the best thing you can do, OP,  right now is to fly UK light fighters.  They are easy to fly and forgiving of serious mistakes.  What's important is to have success early and learn how things work.  Turn fighting is natural, and Spitfires are good at it, so you will be successful while you learn rather than get curb kicked while you learn.  If you fly Germans early, you're going to be frustrated because they have a high skill floor that most new players simply do not have.  Once you get comfortable, then try the Germans and learn how to use their strengths against spitfires.  A well flown 109 will beat a well flown Spitfire most of the time.  A poorly flown Spitfire will beat a poorly flown 109 most of the time, and stand a puncher's chance against better flown planes.


Edited by crzyhawk, 03 December 2019 - 02:38 AM.

Specialist A/C

USA: XP31; F11C-2; YP29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; XFL; XF4U-1; P39N; F4U-1,-4ROC: Hawk II; Ki43c; Tomahawk IIb; P51K |

UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


legoboy0401 #20 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:37 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 December 2019 - 06:01 PM, said:

 

Actually I should add a caveat there since you seem like the kind of person who would care about things like this: almost all the best players in the game prefer boom-and-zoom over turn-and-burn and the spinny meta dies quite quickly past tier 5. 


LOL what do you mean the BEST players? I’m a pretty average player myself and I am only grinding ONE, yes, ONE turn fighter line.


Edited by legoboy0401, 03 December 2019 - 02:39 AM.

An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris





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