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Suggestions for Specializing Bombers - Killing Reds


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Trauglodyte #1 Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:31 PM

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Dealing damage isn't necessarily a problem (outside of getting heat seakered by Heavy bots).  The problem that I struggle with is getting the non-defense enemy kills.  It isn't the easiest thing, ever, and it gets worse because sometimes the game doesn't take my kill(s) into account - just got out of a game where I axed an enemy bomber bot and, for *reasons*, I'm still on the same number that I had, before going into the game.  There has to be a way for this to go smoother.  Or, is this just the long sad slog of the bomber player?

 

Any advice?



LeastWeasel #2 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:02 PM

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I’ve been struggling with this, with the Do 217 M - the best solution I can think of is “enlist a wingman” specifically to soften up targets on your six.

pyantoryng #3 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:39 PM

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Tokens :trollface:

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Trauglodyte #4 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:44 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 02 December 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

I’ve been struggling with this, with the Do 217 M - the best solution I can think of is “enlist a wingman” specifically to soften up targets on your six.

 

The Do 217 M is awful.  But, yeah, I'm 5/15 on kills, which should be more like 8/15 or more. 

 

View Postpyantoryng, on 02 December 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

Tokens :trollface:

 

Oof!  Didn't think about that.


Edited by Trauglodyte, 02 December 2019 - 09:45 PM.


Captain_Underpants53 #5 Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:24 PM

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I token past that one.
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ebp_si #6 Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:01 PM

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You can token past the turret kill requirement for spec on bombers???  I guess I haven't studied them enough.  I was about to use some x3 Intensive training to try to get my gunner up to a usefull skill level in my Ju-288A.  Now is that plane worth specializing or should I race to the 288C?  Or beyond?

SpiritFoxMY #7 Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:27 PM

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With bombers you should have one goal - get to tier 10 and Specialize that. Whether German or Russian, get to tier 10, Specialize that, ruin everyone's day.

 

The only problem is that a lot of people have done that too so it can devolve into an insane bomber-off and the winner is the one who gets Hunter-killer'd the least


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legoboy0401 #8 Posted 03 December 2019 - 01:09 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 December 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

With bombers you should have one goal - get to tier 10 and Specialize that. Whether German or Russian, get to tier 10, Specialize that, ruin everyone's day.

 

The only problem is that a lot of people have done that too so it can devolve into an insane bomber-off and the winner is the one who gets Hunter-killer'd the least

 

Speaking of which, I now have the German Tier VIII sky-cancer machine. Now only one sky-cancer machine stands between me and the ULTIMATE German sky-cancer machine! (evil laugh)

 

 

View Postebp_si, on 02 December 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

You can token past the turret kill requirement for spec on bombers???  I guess I haven't studied them enough.  I was about to use some x3 Intensive training to try to get my gunner up to a usefull skill level in my Ju-288A.  Now is that plane worth specializing or should I race to the 288C?  Or beyond?

 

... But seriously, the Ju-288C is pretty good. You should definitely get it and not waste any more time than you have to on the "eh" Ju-288A. Also, don't hesitate to dump it once you have unlocked the Ju-287, and likewise for the Ju-287 once you have unlocked the EF-131. The Ju-287 is quite good, but you can always rebuy it later. I know I will be doing this method of grinding. Besides, my keeper Tier VIII bomber will likely be the B-29 anyways, and I only need 1 per tier.


Edited by legoboy0401, 03 December 2019 - 01:12 AM.

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Zigfreid #9 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:18 PM

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Try running weakest link to get your rear gunner kills.

You will get them with out trying the easy way.

If you join a good clan this is common tips to help.



Stygian_Alchemist #10 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:27 PM

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Mouse and Keyboard or Joystick? If you're flying Joystick in a bomber, you're at a very unique disadvantage. One that, so far as I can tell, cannot be overcome as you don't have full flight surface control in bombsight or turret mode. Something you -can- achieve with mouse/keyboard with some optional keybinds/etc.

The Do-217M does have anemic guns, but no matter the turret you'll generally need at least 5-8 points on the gunner to successfully win in air to air interactions. Ignore the + to crit, that's good for getting away, but not for killing. You want to kill, go armorer/ballistics expert and defensive fire so you can stay in firing range and drop the damage coming from the enemy. Avoid heavies for the purpose of trying to get this as well, but purposely dive into furballs. With a wing to manage the heavies its just a matter of dipping down -just- low enough to pull up a light ADA, which are the easiest targets to kill with a turret. That or buzzing the top of a furball and hoping for a low health LF. Another key is to figure out -which- of your turret emplacements has the highest damage output vs. its field of fire to ensure that the flight pattern you are using keeps the enemy with -at least- that gun lined up the entire time. In the case of the Do-217M, my brain says the rear gondola gun is the strongest, but it's been a while since I have flown it.

A flight partner is the "easiest" way to achieve this, but it requires some close coordination and them having a fast enough/powerful enough plane to actually keep up with your flight pathing over time. 

The thing about bomber turret kills is they tend to come in spurts.. you go 5-10 games and don't get a single one. Just some assists.. then suddenly you'll have a game where you bust off 3, 4, or 10. Gold turret ammo is a help -and- a hindrance, so keep that in mind as well. Your key is going to be learning patience.. as you have to act like a constantly moving trap door spider. Turret kills on German bombers are always difficult though, it does get easier as you increase in tier as your strength increases tier to tier.. but even at T10, don't expect turret kills to just randomly appear... and you won't understand how to evade appropriately and preserve HP if you don't practice at the tiers where it is hardest, frankly. That's why I consider most bomber pilots to just be bots. It's easy enough to fly in a straight line and drop bombs and hit ground targets.. but those bombers, when faced with any real opposition, just buckle and fail. They have no idea how to pick nodes or watch the radar for aerial targets of opportunity.. or how to drag out their death kiting a high threat enemy to the far corner of a map and using the respawn timer to end up over a node and dropping bombs before they can get into position to stop you. Why do they have no clue? Because Bombers are -not- easy.. everything you do is reversed to what the rest of the planes work on conceptually. 

For one, successfully getting high chevrons isn't about perfection bombing. It's about "good enough" bombing and -living-. Living, living, living. That's your primary job as a bomber. Even if you aren't 100% successfully dropping ordnance, the fact of you being alive on the board and the threat that is is more of a positive to your team than you successfully dropping 100% of the time but dying every 5 seconds. 

What all of this leads me around to say is: I salute you for wanting to learn bomber turrets, tokening -is- a thing.. but I recommend against it until you feel extremely comfortable with flying bombers appropriately. That means that dropping the bombs is actually your tertiary priority. Your primary priority is to not be seen until its too late. Your secondary target is to duck/dodge/weave/live through flak, enemy planes, and overspray from your own team. Your tertiary target is to try to get dropping bombs to line up with those first two things happening. 

A chimp could be trained to fly a bomber and rack up high points.. and against a team with little opposition to it.. that wins. It takes a lot of effort to actually be good at bombers, but most importantly it takes understanding the actual point of you being in the air.

Trauglodyte #11 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:48 PM

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Probably going to have to adjust my plan, then.  I had "planned" on specializing every aircraft that I've played.  The dang bombers, though, are just brutal.

 

EDIT:  I did get my first Doolittle and Lang medals last night.  Not the same game but it was nice.  Only have a 5 point crew, in my bomber, so it is going to take some time.  Honestly, though, it might be a cursed blessing to put my head down and specialize them all.  If nothing else, it'll increase my time on skill training and nuance learning - the Do 217 M is the first bomber that I've ever turned into a situational dive bomber.  Plus, dropping bombs in one is the same as the others (from tier 6-10) so it isn't like the play is staggeringly different (I'm assuming).


Edited by Trauglodyte, 03 December 2019 - 02:55 PM.


SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:00 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 03 December 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

Probably going to have to adjust my plan, then.  I had "planned" on specializing every aircraft that I've played.  The dang bombers, though, are just brutal.

 

EDIT:  I did get my first Doolittle and Lang medals last night.  Not the same game but it was nice.  Only have a 5 point crew, in my bomber, so it is going to take some time.  Honestly, though, it might be a cursed blessing to put my head down and specialize them all.  If nothing else, it'll increase my time on skill training and nuance learning - the Do 217 M is the first bomber that I've ever turned into a situational dive bomber.  Plus, dropping bombs in one is the same as the others (from tier 6-10) so it isn't like the play is staggeringly different (I'm assuming).

 

Specializing Russian and German bombers below tier 7 is just a slog and probably not worth your time. Bombers from those two nations only get decent gunners starting at tier 8 and their power ramps up exponentially over the last two tiers. While it isn't impossible to Spec mid and low tier bombers, it requires a lot of skill, patience and not a small amount of luck.


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Stygian_Alchemist #13 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:12 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 03 December 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

Probably going to have to adjust my plan, then.  I had "planned" on specializing every aircraft that I've played.  The dang bombers, though, are just brutal.

 

EDIT:  I did get my first Doolittle and Lang medals last night.  Not the same game but it was nice.  Only have a 5 point crew, in my bomber, so it is going to take some time.  Honestly, though, it might be a cursed blessing to put my head down and specialize them all.  If nothing else, it'll increase my time on skill training and nuance learning - the Do 217 M is the first bomber that I've ever turned into a situational dive bomber.  Plus, dropping bombs in one is the same as the others (from tier 6-10) so it isn't like the play is staggeringly different (I'm assuming).

Nice! When I started, the highest non-premium bomber was the Do-217M. You either flew it and got good at it.. or you flew lower tiers and same.. or you shelled out for the RB-17. A few weeks after I began, the American bombers dropped and suddenly you could get a T7 tech tree bomber.. heady times. Especially because when the B-32 first dropped.. it had turrets that were honestly better than anything but certain HFs in terms of damage output. It's still an insanely overpowered turret machine with the right crew, equipment, and knowledge of the plane. Then it was nerfed, leaving you with the B-32, Do-217M and its tech tree equivalent russian.. what's it.. the Pe-2 m-82 or something like that? Never was a fan, or low tiers if you didn't have the money or didn't want to shell out for the RB-17.

What I guess I'm angling at.. is that if you put in the time and effort (which is an insane amount.. it is not a mountain I suggest anyone new climb as a rule.. but some people have the drive), even middle or low tier bombing can be quite rewarding and you can become a hard-carry level of player. Or at least as close as actually exists in the current meta.. which is dependent on who all else is online and not due to low population at the moment. It's a hard class, it's highly rewarding, and when you win... there's nothing, honestly, that gives as many parts as a bomber. I dunno why that is so, but consistently rewarding parts? Bombers are where its at.



LeastWeasel #14 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:10 PM

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Trying bombers with a flightstick, and YES, it is weird. Got all my pitch/roll/yaw mapped to KB, so I can still fly while I turret with the stick - but wish I could jump to mouse JUST for the turret view!

Also....

There is no way I know of to map/use that “zoom in on bombsight” ability you haveon your mousewheel, when you are flying stick! If someone knows differently, please let me know - that’s my number one complaint for flightstick-bomber life.

legoboy0401 #15 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:57 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 03 December 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:

Nice! When I started, the highest non-premium bomber was the Do-217M. You either flew it and got good at it.. or you flew lower tiers and same.. or you shelled out for the RB-17. A few weeks after I began, the American bombers dropped and suddenly you could get a T7 tech tree bomber.. heady times. Especially because when the B-32 first dropped.. it had turrets that were honestly better than anything but certain HFs in terms of damage output. It's still an insanely overpowered turret machine with the right crew, equipment, and knowledge of the plane. Then it was nerfed, leaving you with the B-32, Do-217M and its tech tree equivalent russian.. what's it.. the Pe-2 m-82 or something like that? Never was a fan, or low tiers if you didn't have the money or didn't want to shell out for the RB-17.

What I guess I'm angling at.. is that if you put in the time and effort (which is an insane amount.. it is not a mountain I suggest anyone new climb as a rule.. but some people have the drive), even middle or low tier bombing can be quite rewarding and you can become a hard-carry level of player. Or at least as close as actually exists in the current meta.. which is dependent on who all else is online and not due to low population at the moment. It's a hard class, it's highly rewarding, and when you win... there's nothing, honestly, that gives as many parts as a bomber. I dunno why that is so, but consistently rewarding parts? Bombers are where its at.


Yeah, the B-32 may still be insanely overpowered with an overpowered build, but I can definitely tell you it does NOT come that way out of the gate, and in fact is pretty darn BAD stock and even elite. In particular, survival is usually quite difficult, and it dies quite a lot, even with its enormous healthpool, because everyone on the enemy team that WANTS to attack USUALLY CAN, overwhelming even the B-32’s very strong defenses.

 

In addition, it’s not an I-win button, and if you suck in it you will still suck in it, it won’t make up for one’s lack of skill, like some planes can to some extent(Looking at you, Vampire).


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


Captain_Underpants53 #16 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:35 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 03 December 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Trying bombers with a flightstick, and YES, it is weird. Got all my pitch/roll/yaw mapped to KB, so I can still fly while I turret with the stick - but wish I could jump to mouse JUST for the turret view!

Also....

There is no way I know of to map/use that “zoom in on bombsight” ability you haveon your mousewheel, when you are flying stick! If someone knows differently, please let me know - that’s my number one complaint for flightstick-bomber life.

I use a joystick and I just engage the mouse scroll wheel.  It seems set up by default on my rig.


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LeastWeasel #17 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:49 PM

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Huh! Will try again tonight, can’t believe I missed this!

vcharng #18 Posted 04 December 2019 - 06:18 AM

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The problem is that bombers are unsalvageable unless specialization in day one PLUS always fly in a flight.

 

Even after they adjusted the flaks it is still impossible for many bombers to not be shredded into pieces by the flak, let alone HFs.

 

For example B-32 pre-specialization. Red altitude at 3800, T7 flak tops at somewhere near 4000, so you will be targeted, you will be hit (because it's the biggest airplane in the whole game), and you will be killed.

 

217M is better because at least for T6 games you can out-fly the flaks.






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