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Doin’ a Doolittle? Looking for bomber advice


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LeastWeasel #1 Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:31 PM

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Alright, looking to pick the brains of the bomber elite - Mcguires and Lamberts flow like wine, even Akamatsu’s aren’t too far off... but I can’t get anywhere close to a Doolittle, anywhere. I’ve got the Do-217 M, the B-17D, and AR-2.

 

Time for you all to boast: how often do Doolittles come to you in the varying lines, and at what tiers? Outside of high-tier matches, I feel like I haven’t seen many bombers ending the match with more than two chevrons for role efficiency... 

 

So what am I missing? I’m always going for high-value sites, maybe I should be bombing more liberally?  Are bombers heavily contingent on specialization?  Set my german gunner to crit and run, the american to damage... this class of aircraft remains a headscratcher, I feel like there is something I’m missing...



Trauglodyte #2 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:47 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 02 December 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Alright, looking to pick the brains of the bomber elite - Mcguires and Lamberts flow like wine, even Akamatsu’s aren’t too far off... but I can’t get anywhere close to a Doolittle, anywhere. I’ve got the Do-217 M, the B-17D, and AR-2.

 

Time for you all to boast: how often do Doolittles come to you in the varying lines, and at what tiers? Outside of high-tier matches, I feel like I haven’t seen many bombers ending the match with more than two chevrons for role efficiency... 

 

So what am I missing? I’m always going for high-value sites, maybe I should be bombing more liberally?  Are bombers heavily contingent on specialization?  Set my german gunner to crit and run, the american to damage... this class of aircraft remains a headscratcher, I feel like there is something I’m missing...

 

No boasting, for me.  I got my first Doolittle this morning, in my He 111 H-2.  Based upon limited experience, despite having just unlocked the tier 7 German bomber, it seems to me like you need a long protracted game, a carpet bomber, AND be red lining your elevation.  I despise my Do-217 M, since it requires you to dive bomb and the blast radius, even with Demolitionist, seems lackluster.  That's just me, though, and I could be talking out of my butt.



SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:52 PM

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Well, to begin with the B-17D and the Ar-2 are respectively the two weakest of their lines so there's that. The Do-217M is a decent enough airplane but needs to be flown with care because it has very little in the way of defensive capability despite having an excellent bombload.

 

Bombers aren't necessarily contingent on Specialization to perform though they benefit the most from it, both defensively and offensively. 

 

For me, I fly bombers almost exclusively at high tiers and my opinions of those are... well known on the forums. With the tier 9 German Ju-287, I can get Doolittles every three or four battles. With the tier 10 Russian Su-10, its a Doolittle every other battle. I've even nailed a Khozudeb  in that thing so make of it as you will. 

 

The main thing about flying bombers from the mid to high tiers, IMO, is never slow down. There're generally two schools of bombing - the School of Orbital Bombardment holds that you should fly your bomber as high as possible, above the Flak ceiling and slowly hammer your way across the cap. This is a slow but steady methodology and tends to yield more Doolittles simply because you're unlikely to be intercepted (and to get a Doolittle you have to deal the requisite amount of damage without dying) but also requires a wingman since at those altitudes, your ability to control the battlefield is minimal. Then there's the School of Assault Bombing that believes that the bomber's potential lies in its massive bombload and superior speed and that is best exploited by flying at optimal altitudes before diving in to deliver a payload with pinpoint accuracy. This is a live fast, die hard methodology that basically relies on your ability to plan your ingress and egress as efficiently as possible while testing your defensive flying skills to the max. 

 

In the end, I am of the opinion that bombers shouldn't be played cautiously. While there's some merit in redlining your plane's altitude, that should be a tactic, rather than a doctrine - I personally only do that if I have already got map control, my plane's hitpoints are perilously low and/or its the squall line. Otherwise, I go in fast - either fast, straight and level, or fast down low. 

 

As for target priorities, you should always prioritize the targets that give you the most points for the fewest bombs. Sorry if that's a little like saying the sky is blue, but that's just how it is.

 

I haven't really recorded anything recently but most of these are still current. Maybe you can get an idea of how I fly these things and have a go at it yourself

 

 

 

 


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legoboy0401 #4 Posted 02 December 2019 - 07:21 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 02 December 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

Alright, looking to pick the brains of the bomber elite - Mcguires and Lamberts flow like wine, even Akamatsu’s aren’t too far off... but I can’t get anywhere close to a Doolittle, anywhere. I’ve got the Do-217 M, the B-17D, and AR-2.

 

Time for you all to boast: how often do Doolittles come to you in the varying lines, and at what tiers? Outside of high-tier matches, I feel like I haven’t seen many bombers ending the match with more than two chevrons for role efficiency... 

 

So what am I missing? I’m always going for high-value sites, maybe I should be bombing more liberally?  Are bombers heavily contingent on specialization?  Set my german gunner to crit and run, the american to damage... this class of aircraft remains a headscratcher, I feel like there is something I’m missing...

 

 

I'm no PRO, technically speaking, but I do have 13 of the darn things, so let's see:

 

 

American line: These planes are tricky buggers to get Doolittles in, despite their impressive Tier VI and VII armament. By far the easiest(still not "super easy, barely an inconvenience") one to get them in is the B-17D. BUT, and this is a very big caveat, you must, must, MUST play it high level. "But Lego", I hear you say, "won't that make traversing the map take far too long to usually get Doolittles?" Yes, actually, but there isn't another way to do it with this aircraft. Why? Because unlike the Tier VI and VII, it has utterly useless defenses that most of the time won't even save you from a low-health same tier Heavy Fighter. In the B-17D, you CANNOT get intercepted, because if you do, you have NOTTA ability to fight off anything but Light Fighters and a few multirole fighters(sometimes, but only one on one, anything more than one light fighter or multirole opponent and you are still toast), and you WILL be dead, toast, dead meat, whatever you want to call it, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You simply CANNOT play the B-17D mid-level and expect to contribute at all effectively to the match. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Also, being intercepted is just one more straw on the camel's back for this plane, because AA SHREDS the B-17D, because dodging AA is so difficult in it more often than not. The B-17G and B-32, both of which I own, are, paradoxically, even worse at Doolittles, because they are super slow and usually are best run at mid-altitudes, putting them in range of more AA than the B-17D, properly played, usually gets exposed to, and of course more would-be interceptors. Both Doolittles and Langs are hard to get in the B-17G and are ultra-difficult in the B-32, particularly solo.

 

 

Russian: Just, no. Not until later tiers, or at least further than I have gotten(Tier VI Pe-2 M-82). As to why I despise the Ar-2, I go in depth about it here: http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/55382-its-been-a-bit-ar-2-a-re-look/

 

It is from the beginning of this year, and not my first ever rant on this plane, but here is the too-often truth of playing it, from the older thread.

 

"

View PostLMG, on 09 January 2019 - 09:31 PM, said:

 

At what angle? You usually need about 40° or more to be accurate when divebombing and to properly see the bombing reticle. At 30° or less you have to manually pan the camera to see where the bomb will land, and even then it doesn't quite improve the accuracy as much as you'd want :amazed:

 

About 45. My problem is though is

 

View PostGonerNL, on 10 January 2019 - 02:27 AM, said:

I also tried Ar-2 yesterday and indeed, it can divebomb !! Got the reticle in a steep dive (about 45 ?)

Problem is that it's pretty slow. In a Pe-2 you can at least try to run away after bombing, but the Ar-2 is a sitting duck.

 

Will have to try some other bombers, as I remember that on some the bombs turn red and no reticle appears in a dive ...

 

this. It can't run away, and is a giant fighter magnet, and with utterly useless defenses + the universal turret nerfs(the aiming speed nerf and the max range damage nerf) it's basically just free xp and credits for the enemy, and as it usually gets shot down while still in the cap, free capture points, too. :("

 

 

 

German: Ah, BABY, this is more like it. The Ju-88A is the best one at it sub-tier IX, while the He-111 H-2 premium practically prints them, but make no mistake: ANY German Bomber CAN get Doolittles, just some are better at it than others.

 

 

Finding yourself dying too much? Fly a bit higher. Find yourself not getting to caps in time? Fly a little lower. Find yourself not fully taking out ground targets? Use more bombs on each single target, or fly a little lower, or both.


Edited by legoboy0401, 02 December 2019 - 07:58 PM.

An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

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ClosedCoffin #5 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:02 PM

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This pilot earns a Doolittle and a Lang in an AR-2 flying high with low HP most of the game.



legoboy0401 #6 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:05 PM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 02 December 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

This pilot earns a Doolittle and a Lang in an AR-2 flying high with low HP most of the game.


Fair enough. It’s just quite difficult for your average player to do so, or at least, that was my experience with it.


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Captain_Underpants53 #7 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:34 PM

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I only have around 500 Doolittle's with all the bomber flights I have.  I would say that Spec goes a long way.  Without Spec it's only half a bomber.  The other half is a flying XP harvest.  Try the B-17G and the B-32 (my fav).
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pyantoryng #8 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:34 PM

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An average player'd be pretty much praying to get two plants map and be the one doing the capture on them. You're pretty much boned if you get maps with mostly light sectors because fighters will be stealing all the capture points from you.

 

The B-17D is the weakest point due to useless defensive fire but since the bombs and payload are the same as tier 6 B-17G you still have a chance provided you somehow don't get hunted and be in a map with high concentration of heavy sectors with high value targets. The problem with the US bombers is the long reload time and the all-or-nothing nature of the bomb drop that feels like spray-and-pray...all while competing against your own team fighters in taking the cap points. Getting the second bomb string for US bombers increases reload time from 60 to 80 seconds making specialization very much a significant impact by reducing that 80 second reload time down...the 80 second of inaction (or having to go gunship) is probably worse than not being able to align bombing run properly.

 

Just get to Pe-2 from Ar-2...it's not much farther and is vastly superior with 30 sec reload four 250kgs (fast and powerful relative to tier), usable turrets (better not rely on them though), and the plane goes fast enough to reach places as well...more importantly, you can divebomb with it for maximum accuracy because you get the traditional bomb reticle to use out of bombsight mode. Even without specialization you stand a good chance of performing well enough for a Doolittle in a Pe-2 because of good performance overall out of the gate.

 

Can't comment on German because I've never managed to go beyond the Do-17.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by pyantoryng, 02 December 2019 - 09:36 PM.


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ClosedCoffin #9 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:38 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 02 December 2019 - 09:05 PM, said:


Fair enough. It’s just quite difficult for your average player to do so, or at least, that was my experience with it.


Yeah I have trouble liking it as well even with only 1 battle in mine.

LeastWeasel only has a handful of battles in his so maybe he can see something in this video that helps.



LeastWeasel #10 Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:54 PM

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Alright, thanks for all the advice, pilots! Watched the vids, heeded your words, and rethought my target selection methods. Third attempt tonight: 

shot_024.jpg

....I'm ready for that Vampire mission, now :)

 

EDIT: what the heck, tiny picture?


Edited by LeastWeasel, 02 December 2019 - 11:56 PM.


legoboy0401 #11 Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:59 PM

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View PostLeastWeasel, on 02 December 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

Alright, thanks for all the advice, pilots! Watched the vids, heeded your words, and rethought my target selection methods. Third attempt tonight: 

shot_024.jpg

....I'm ready for that Vampire mission, now :)

 

EDIT: what the heck, tiny picture?


As I said, ANY German Bomber has the potential to get a Doolittle, just some are easier to get them in than others. Good job!


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


Zigfreid #12 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:10 PM

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Can't tell which bombers got the Doolittle's but shows 1,500+ in profile.

And one of my wing man i trained has 1,600+ Doolittle's in his profile.

Looks like any good bomber pilots will have around 500 Doolittle's.



CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:30 PM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 02 December 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

This pilot earns a Doolittle and a Lang in an AR-2 flying high with low HP most of the game.

I noticed something in this game - you were targeted by red planes once.  Just the single time.  And by a LF.  And sort of challenged by ADA once.  All of your damage, from what I could see, was caused by flak.

 

If you don't have to dodge HFs, it is a lot easier to bomb stuff, IME.  That, and the AR-2 has really good bombs at-tier.



Stygian_Alchemist #14 Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:37 PM

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To answer the original question. Stay alive. Don't bomb for "perfection" either, bomb for volume. Give yourself as many chances as you can to hit as many targets as you can, basically. My general strategy also involves me never actually crossing a node, or at least almost never. I generally fly in, drop, and either 90 or 180 turn back out. I do this with an awareness of the ADA's position so that I can maximize my separation from them as well as any bots. 

I am very glad you got one though! It's a fun medal to achieve, difficult, but a good bellwether for your success in a game in a specific bomber.

Also; Zig, you are at 7.11 games per doolittle, I am at 4.69 games per doolittle. Raw numbers only tell one part of the story.. but I'd agree generally that if you haven't surpassed 500 doolittles as a raw number.. you probably aren't an "expert" on the class yet. (I only took games that bombers were selected at the start into the mathematical equation, as I've not flown nearly so many bomber games as you have at this point).

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 03 December 2019 - 02:38 PM.


Trauglodyte #15 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:06 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 03 December 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

Also; Zig, you are at 7.11 games per doolittle, I am at 4.69 games per doolittle. Raw numbers only tell one part of the story.. but I'd agree generally that if you haven't surpassed 500 doolittles as a raw number.. you probably aren't an "expert" on the class yet. (I only took games that bombers were selected at the start into the mathematical equation, as I've not flown nearly so many bomber games as you have at this point).

 

So, you're telling me that my 171 games per Doolittle doesn't make me an expert?  This isn't some golf like thing?  Now, I feel insulted!!! :izmena: 

 

/joke



Stygian_Alchemist #16 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:17 PM

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View PostTrauglodyte, on 03 December 2019 - 09:06 AM, said:

 

So, you're telling me that my 171 games per Doolittle doesn't make me an expert?  This isn't some golf like thing?  Now, I feel insulted!!! :izmena: 

 

/joke


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I surrender! You're the best bomber in the game. Zig, we better run away with our tailplanes tucked!
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Nah, sincerely, that -first- doolittle is the hardest one. It gets progressively easier after you achieve the first few because you now have a baseline for what to do right. Before that, it's all trying to figure out what you're doing wrong.. and with no "right" examples.. that's just a roulette game. I do agree with Zig that you need to have a certain # of doolittles/bomber-specific badges/etc. before you should consider yourself good/an expert. Just to demonstrate that you've achieved a point of consistency (in theory). Some folks that takes longer than others, but once you reach that point of attrition... you're a danger no matter what. Whether that gross # takes you 500, 5k, or 15k games doesn't matter really. You'll also find yourself once you reach a certain skill point having difficulty getting doolittles again... mostly because the game ends too quickly, heh.



SgtSchlautter #17 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:25 PM

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Personally, doolittle is far easier to obtain with the tier 9 and 10 bombers. I have managed it with most of the bombers in the game though. The key to getting doolittle (if you are intentionally aiming for that specific medal) is to always be aware of where the enemy heavies are. Your number one goal when chasing doolittle is to avoid heavies at all costs. If a heavy spots u and is coming toward u, then press F7 to let your human pilots know where u r and that u r in trouble. Also, press F4 on the heavy to force one of your bots to attack it. being aware of your threats will allow u to get doolittles much easier. Furthermore, don't go after a cap that has just been recently flipped by the enemy and also don't go after sectors that are right near the enemy spawn. If your are deliberately going for doolittle, going for sectors that are right near the enemy spawn often means there r too many planes that will come after you. by the same logic, don't go after sectors that were just flipped by the enemy because your allies are most likely not over that sector or were shot down and there r often at least a few enemies over there with no other targets but u if u decide to go there. So, avoid recently flipped sectors. One final tip is to only make a single pass over a sector. Turning around and making a second pass often means that there is an enemy ada or plane preparing to counter u. Keep the enemy guessing where u are by not staying in one sector unless u know for sure there r limited threats over it. Oh, and don't immediately flip a sector if your team is winning. Since doolittle can really only be obtained in close fights, if your team is winning, don't try to flip the site as fast as possible. Instead, destroy smaller targets to give the enemy team more time to flip some other sector. Milking a site for as many CP's as possible can make doolittle much easier to get. One last thing: use german bombers. they really are the best nation in the game to get doolittle simply because their altitude advantage limits the number of planes that can counter u. Hope these tips help

LeastWeasel #18 Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:01 PM

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Thanks Styg & Schlautter - bombing for volume over “perfection” was key, as well as that quintessential map awareness.

 

Took all the advice here, and thought about how I had just learned to farm Lamberts with a somewhat similar methodology. Even when you’re ground pounding (up high or down low), you can’t say the words “don’t get fixated” enough.


Edited by LeastWeasel, 03 December 2019 - 04:04 PM.


legoboy0401 #19 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:03 PM

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View PostZigfreid, on 03 December 2019 - 06:10 AM, said:

Can't tell which bombers got the Doolittle's but shows 1,500+ in profile.

And one of my wing man i trained has 1,600+ Doolittle's in his profile.

Looks like any good bomber pilots will have around 500 Doolittle's.


Yeah, I’m not there yet, never said I was. But then again, all you lot have UNBELIEVABLY larger amounts of battles played than I, so there, I guess.


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris





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