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What is the best first Tier X?

Tier X

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Poll: What is the best first Tier X? (18 members have cast votes)

What is the best first Tier X?

  1. I-215 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. IL-40P (2 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  3. La-15 (2 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  4. Mig-15Bis (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  5. Yak-30 (2 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  6. Su-10 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. BV P.215.02 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. EF-131 (2 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  9. Fw 252 (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  10. Me P.1101 (4 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  11. What I consider to be the best first Tier X was not listed yet (4 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

What is the best first Tier X?(cont.)

  1. Me-262 HG III (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  2. Me P.1102 B (3 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  3. F-84F (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. F7U (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. F-86A (3 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  6. XF-90 (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  7. J7W3 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Ki-162-III (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Javelin (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. What I consider to be the best first Tier X was not listed yet (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  11. What I consider to be the best first Tier X was already listed (9 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

What is the best first Tier X?(cont.)

  1. Hunter (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  2. Swift (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. What I consider to be the best first Tier X was already listed (17 votes [94.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 94.44%

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legoboy0401 #1 Posted 27 November 2019 - 08:06 PM

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So, I am subscribed to Quickybaby, though I don't play WoT anymore, and a couple of days ago he made a video discussing the best first Tier X in that game, and that got me thinking:

 

What exactly is the best first Tier X here in WoWP?

 

 

Please fill out the poll, and then leave a comment explaining your choice.

 

 

 

I thank you in advance for your opinions.

 

 

 

- Legoboy0401


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

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Captain_Underpants53 #2 Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:13 PM

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Confusing poll

 


MSgt, USAF, (ret)

SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:16 PM

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I'll be honest - I can't vote because I can't really narrow it down to just one. And I can't really make up my mind what you mean by "best"

 

The Su-10 is basically an "I Win" button so long as you're Specialized and mildly competent in bombers, but GETTING Specialized is a challenge to say the least unless you're willing to throw a buttload of gold and tokens at it. And you know my opinion on newbies getting their hands on automatic "I Win" buttons

 

EF131 is as dull as a box of rocks. It's less of an instant "I Win" button than the Su-10, but only marginally and the playstyle doesn't change between tiers 9 and 10. But it's also a really strong plane and flying it to get to know its few weaknesses is key to understanding the tier 10 meta. 

 

Hunter is great in the right hands but you need to be really really efficient in it. It's remarkably fragile unspec and it can be overwhelmed by the EF131 meta, which isn't a great introduction to tier 10 for newbies. Also the difference between Spec and Unspec is surprisingly small.

 

P.1101 is the Spitfire of tier 10. 'nuff said.

 

Don't have the XF-90 but it's generally considered a headhunters' weapon of choice.

 

Sabre, MiG-15bis, Swift are really really strong planes that can counter the meta if flown right. They're kind of the tier 10 Emils to the 1101's Spitfire. Harder to get used ti, more flexible once mastered.

 

Don't ever get the 252 or 215.02. Not until they get seriously rebalanced because as they stand they're straight up two of the worst tier 10s in the game, competing with each other on whether you consider reliable guns on a defenseless HP pinata or unreliable guns on a mediocre performer bottom of the barrel


***

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For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


SpiritFoxMY #4 Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:21 PM

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If you put a gun to my head and demanded an answer, I'd say HGIII. It's more flexible than the XF-90, [edited]all over bombers and GAAs when flown right yet isn't the lazy "I Win" hammer of God button that some of the others can be. 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


White_Widow18 #5 Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:10 AM

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I voted for the MiG15 and the P1102B.

Reasoning for the MiG15: It is probably the strongest overall fighter at T10. It's turnier, faster, better altitude, and hits just as hard -effectively- as the P1101. It's the P-39N-1 of t10, but with a gun equipment slot. If you aren't good with boom/bust weapons, stick to the P.1101, as it is the most user friendl/simple. It's not the fastest, not the best turn, but the guns are spray and pray dreamy.

Reasoning for the P.1102B: Simple - You have to learn how to use turrets, bombs, forward guns, maneuver a quick (given its altitude... it's quick when you're zipping through a canyon at 500mph) -brick- with arguably some of the most forgivingly unforgiving guns in the game. You -have- to learn how to work in close quarters or else the ground eats you and you have to learn how to dogfight, because sometimes that's the more efficient thing or sometimes there are solid targets of opportunity that only a fool would pass up. The guns are, ultimately, equivalent to handling all the T10 heavies and if you can learn to maneuver it, everything else is fast-twitch-turny-burny to you. 

Just my two cents.

SpiritFoxMY #6 Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:09 AM

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focke, that vote doesn't count if its your ONLY tier X. No, being its best pilot doesn't count if you're the ONLY pilot either. 

***

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For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


mnbv_fockewulfe #7 Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:15 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 28 November 2019 - 01:09 AM, said:

focke, that vote doesn't count if its your ONLY tier X. No, being its best pilot doesn't count if you're the ONLY pilot either. 


Don't talk like that about my waifu! :angry:


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:19 AM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 28 November 2019 - 09:15 AM, said:


Don't talk like that about my waifu! :angry:

 

Your waifu worse than my waifu and that's saying something :trollface: (rip BVP215.02)


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


mnbv_fockewulfe #9 Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:48 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 28 November 2019 - 01:19 AM, said:

 

Your waifu worse than my waifu and that's saying something :trollface: (rip BVP215.02)


My waifu is more trash :izmena:


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


Bobby_Tables #10 Posted 28 November 2019 - 02:21 AM

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I voted for the Me P.1102 B.  Why?  Because the journey there is so much fun after Tier 5/6.  As an added bonus, you can even skip the T5/6 grind with your Me 410. 

 

The T7/8/9 planes are great and I kept most of them.    

 

Funny thing is that I realized just the other day that I have specialized almost all of my GA that I keep in my hangar.  

 

Anyway, while no one is every going to say "GA is the most fun to play evah" they still are extremely useful in certain daily missions and certain events.  

 

If you prefer Russian GA planes, the IL-40/40P are both excellent GAs as well.  

 

Only issue I have is, go from a T9/10 GA down to a T7 and the game will feel like it stalled out on you.  



CorvusCorvax #11 Posted 28 November 2019 - 04:03 AM

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So far, I only have 3 T10 aircraft, with 5 more waiting for me to play T9 planes more.  As a fan of the German heavy fighter, I favor my HGIII.  I haven't played it enough to be anything more than workmanlike, but it does inspire confidence.  Too much, sometimes.

 

I have played my Su-10  a few times, and it feels like cheating.  So I don't play it.

 

The Me P.1101 is effortless to fly, and fly well.

 

I am looking forward to getting the MiG-15.  I understand that it is analogous to the Bf-109E in how it plays at-tier.   As in, it dominates, in the hands of an experienced and disciplined pilot.  I have a ways to go, considering I am grinding the dang I-210 now.  And I have the I-250 to look forward to.

 

Also, the XF-90, so I can have the highest-flying, fastest aircraft in the game.  And have another airplane to shoot down bombers...



hoom #12 Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:08 AM

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I vote La-15 of the ones I've played.

Its not really exceptional in anything but its not really got a bad weakness either.

Like most of the La line its a happy medium: Its decently quick, pretty agile, has acceptable altitude & its 3* 23mm are of unified type, nose mounted, with reasonable range & burst length.

 

Swift was my first T10, its good but pretty finnicky, I believe its got a very high skill ceiling & fairly high floor.

 

Yak-30 is very similar to La-15: more agile but slower & with lower altitude cap which I found very limiting.

 

MiG-15bis is very good but the dissimilar weapons & limited burst give it a bit higher skill floor.

 

F-86A is also very good, maybe 2nd 'best first T10' but a lot of ppl don't really like the short range of high tier US MGs.

 

I-215 is probably the most hilarious fun: derping things at over 1km with twin nose mounted 57mm & the plane actually has fairly reasonable performance.

Sniper cannon are not everyones' cup of tea though & it tends to put in binary performances: either everything within coo-ee of you gets assploded or you can't hit the broadside of a barn/you get mercilessly assinated by a player in a quicker/more agile plane.

 

Su-10 well it may be a near-unstoppable win-machine once Specialised but I've not found it amazingly fun non-specialised & I don't want to drop over 100 tokens on specialising it. Certainly not a good candidate for 'best first T10'

 

Hunter I'm probably playing it wrong. Its good, with massive firepower from the 4* adens but it requires a lot more finesse than I'd expected it to need, at least un-specialised.

I need to spend some quality time (& a pile of Silver) with it now I've got it Specialised to optimise Equipment & methods (though the same goes for most of my other T10s).

 

Javelin you've got 4* adens & with decent burst but they're wing mounted which can make landing hits difficult & its a pretty fast but un-agile lump of a thing. I'm confident it'll be a beast once specialised & equipmented if I can properly adjust my style to suit it. Not 'best first 10' material.

Due to the game-engine constantly doing full-deflection of control surfaces for the tiniest of turns I find the T elevator very distracting since its quite close below the aim-point & not just elevators but the entire tailplane deflects.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas le SerB.

wylleEcoyote #13 Posted 28 November 2019 - 11:09 AM

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Interesting question.  The best answer is "That Depends on the Player"

Consider the most important data point.  that this is The FIRST tier 10 a player is Grinding with a capital G.
Possibly from as low as teir 2.

Not much access to free xp. almost No access to airplane modules (weapons or engines) that are unlocked from another grind.
No prior experience playing the game in higher and higher tiers ... learning the hard way how to fly the planes playstyle ... 
So this line needs to be appear as early as possible. with an accessable skill floor and a skill ceiling that is high enough to remain competitive and nuanced enough to maintain interest. All combining into a consistent gameplay at any teir
Ideally the only difference between the individual planes in the line should be that the stat numbers get incrementally 'better' with each tier advancement without interfereing with core gameplay

Now that we have a proper definition of Best grind to tier 10 lets get into particulars.

In this game we play the are two basic methods of play. 

Player v Player in agile turn fighters  and fast energy fighters 
Or
Player v Environment  with slow + low altitude attackers or Faster High altitude Bombers
 
you forgot the MR ...


As a newish player its up to you to figure out what you like to do best. PvE or PvP. 
  If  PvE is your thing i recomend the Russian GAA and Bombers.
Spoiler

On to the Light fighters.
Which is best for a first tier ten grind? Most new players gravitate toward being turn-fighters.
And the best ones are the sluggish low altitude planes. And out of that large field of options. one that Most fits my primary definition (consistent play from beginning to end) would be the Yak line. Yaks turn. they turn like nothing else. they are the only line in the game that DOESNT actually loose turning performance as it goes to tier ten. While at the same time its altitude and speed and guns just get progressively better and better. 

Some folks out there would rather energy fight. Because speed kills. and also saves.
It does have a higher skill floor but a higher skill ceiling as a result. And the skills picked up do well in other lines (heavies and Multiroles)
Many sing praises for the line of 
Messerschmidts

What about MiGs?


Which leaves us with the American fighters
as our Winner.

What about the Heavies?
the jury is still out.  between the germans favoring bomber interception, the british favoring ordnance delivery,  the americans just being ... weird, and the japanese and russian snipers just not being finished; each one is its own thing.

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 28 November 2019 - 11:16 AM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes earned: Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  P-23/-36/-39N-1/-40, XP-31/-55, Hawk 75M, Model 81A-1, , P-51A, XF15C

Bristol 146, DH.100 F1, Spitfire V DB 605,
Fw 56/159, He 51/112, Ar 68/80, Bf 109 B/E/E-3/F, Me 209 v4/A, Me P.1092, I-17
MultiRole Fighters: Type 91, P-12/-26/-35/-43, XP-44, P-47B, F11C-2, F4F/U-1, 
Ar 65, Fw 190 A-1/A-5/D, I-5 /15 /16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J, P-82BXP-58, Beaufighter,  Ao 192, Fw 57, Bf 110 B/C-6/E, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123/129 A, Ha 137, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


White_Widow18 #14 Posted 28 November 2019 - 05:04 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 28 November 2019 - 05:09 AM, said:

Spoiler

What about the Heavies?
the jury is still out.  between the germans favoring bomber interception, the british favoring ordnance delivery,  the americans just being ... weird, and the japanese and russian snipers just not being finished; each one is its own thing.

My first two lines to T10 were German and Russian GAA. Yak and German Heavy were my third and fourth.
I'd never recommend the Russian GAA line to anyone. It's just a flying XP balloon all the way through til T10 where it becomes a slow-floating XP balloon with kevlar. I'm good in GAA, both lines.. but I won't pretend the Russian is anything else but an exercise in patience and not getting frustrated with dying and feeling completely useless. The line also has no real crossover in skill to other lines due to its unique speed/ordnance/gun/turret combination, it's just... a very unique set of planes as far as I a concerned. Whereas if you can fly a heavy fighter, you can handle the German GAA. There's a -lot- of crossover in skill between the two types, even a 50% crossover in targets and your primary adjustment is learning to handle not having fully 3D space.

Also.. heavies at T10? The Javelin doesn't have any ordnance. Not even an option for it. The ordnance heavy one is the HGIII and the American is the high-speed interceptor.



legoboy0401 #15 Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:51 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 28 November 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

My first two lines to T10 were German and Russian GAA. Yak and German Heavy were my third and fourth.
I'd never recommend the Russian GAA line to anyone. It's just a flying XP balloon all the way through til T10 where it becomes a slow-floating XP balloon with kevlar. I'm good in GAA, both lines.. but I won't pretend the Russian is anything else but an exercise in patience and not getting frustrated with dying and feeling completely useless. The line also has no real crossover in skill to other lines due to its unique speed/ordnance/gun/turret combination, it's just... a very unique set of planes as far as I a concerned. Whereas if you can fly a heavy fighter, you can handle the German GAA. There's a -lot- of crossover in skill between the two types, even a 50% crossover in targets and your primary adjustment is learning to handle not having fully 3D space.

Also.. heavies at T10? The Javelin doesn't have any ordnance. Not even an option for it. The ordnance heavy one is the HGIII and the American is the high-speed interceptor.


Don’t the HG III and XF-90 have basically the same size bombs, and the same number of them?


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

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White_Widow18 #16 Posted 28 November 2019 - 10:54 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 28 November 2019 - 12:51 PM, said:


Don’t the HG III and XF-90 have basically the same size bombs, and the same number of them?

Technically, yes. However, the speed penalties are greater to the XF-90 due to the % nature of penalties and the XF-90 has longer range weaponry and is faster, has the higher altitude ceiling, and greater -sustained- damage which is good against high HP subjects in high tiers. It's also less turny by a significant margin. Making it the bomber headhunter.

The HGIII already goes slower/is never going to be as fast and has short range autocannons with a fairly quick overheat. More suited to taking out lower HP opponents because it only needs a few rounds to do that and even with bombs it is quick enough to get away from anything it needs to except an XF-90, which it can simply out-turn. Due to that, it's the only one of the three T10 heavies you'd -want- to run bombs on as far as I am concerned.. and even then.. I drop them because speed penalties aren't worth it with a 2 minute reload, I just -could- use them/have used them on the HGIII.

The Javelin just doesn't even -have- a bomb option.. and I have a theory is actually the strongest of the three once you master the wing-mounted ADENs.

All of them are capable of dropping a bomber or GAA or anything else in the game.. but I know that if I see an XF-90 or a Javelin on my tail I'm in a whole lot more trouble than the HGIII because like as not I'm going to crit both its engines off before it gets into its gun range or even has a chance.. especially because it loses speed -real- fast when it loses an engine. The XF-90 retains energy better as long as you aren't trying to maneuver. The Javelin's engines/etc. are a LOT harder to crit and of course there's the fact it has nearly my HP. All of that adds up to why I don't consider it "the" bomber interceptor at T10 and in fact consider it the least dangerous of the 3 when I am in a bomber. GAA.. becomes a different matter. Due to its speed, burst, and ability to operate well into the -bottom- yellow of speed.. well.. I consider it more of a threat than an XF-90, but still less a threat than a Javelin if one ever deigns to come that low. In other air to air vehicles... it's a real tossup between all three as to who is more dangerous, but I'd have to personally hand that crown to the HGIII. Its mixture of qualities just flat give it a better chance to roast off smaller and more nimble planes. The agility of the Javelin is sortof a lie.


Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 28 November 2019 - 10:55 PM.


Reitousair #17 Posted 29 November 2019 - 02:49 AM

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I've cast my vote for the La-15.

 

It's not the strongest tier 10, but it does everything well, extremely forgiving, consistent, hard-hitting guns that heat slowly and cool quickly, if you manage your heat cycles well enough you can almost fire infinitely with very short breaks. It has very smooth, tight turning that is easy to control. It has a good climb rate, decent dive acceleration, and decent boost acceleration.

The main problems with it come from the limited altitude (though the boost is strong enough to work through this limitation for short periods of time) and that the boost speed is the same as its dive speed. This means that quite often when catching people you can't keep up with them in a dive as you can't gain much speed through diving unless you're not flying at top speed.

 

There's... just not really anything wrong with the La-15, it's an extremely forgiving aircraft that is strong, but not so strong that it can dominate tier 10. If it wasn't handicapped to have 1000KPH  dive speed and 2000m altitude I would probably fly it a lot more than I do nowadays, however if you're looking for a great plane to learn tier 10 with: La-15 won't let you down.


Edited by Reitousair, 29 November 2019 - 02:50 AM.

I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


Trauglodyte #18 Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:50 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 27 November 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

Confusing poll

 

 

Poll only allows a certain number of options so lego had to add the question 2 more times, to include the entirety of the tier 10 planes.  Ergo, that is why question #2 and #3 has the "best option is already listed".  Could have been worded better but you get the point.



SgtSchlautter #19 Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:29 PM

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If we are strictly judging tier 10 planes by the ability of the tier 10 plane to earn a victory, then the EF-131 is without a shadow of a doubt the best. It isn't even a close fight. Tier 10 bombers make winning a cake-walk. If we are going by pure fun, then there are several candidates 

Captain_Rownd #20 Posted 05 December 2019 - 06:17 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 28 November 2019 - 01:09 AM, said:

In the star trek movies. every odd numbered movie was meh at best while every even numbered movie is great. 
The MiG line is the same way. When one is pretty good the next plane is garbage. and vice versa.
 

 

I gotta object to this.  IMO all of the MiG line is excellent and super fun, except for the I-210 which I found fairly difficult to use effectively.   (user error a distinct possibility there)

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 05 December 2019 - 06:17 PM.

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