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Reinforced Bolt Carriers: what exactly are they good for? Do you use them?

equipment Reinforced Bolt Carriers

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Poll: Reinforced Bolt Carriers (18 members have cast votes)

Do you use Reinforced Bolt Carriers on any of your planes?

  1. Yes (17 votes [94.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 94.44%

  2. No (1 vote [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

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legoboy0401 #1 Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:09 PM

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What exactly are these things for? What do they do? In what situations would they be better than the DPS enhancing Gas Operated Action on a given plane?

 

 

I don't quite understand these things, and I suspect that I am not the only one. Do you understand these? Do you use them?

 

 

 

I thank you in advance for your advice.

 

 

 

- Legoboy0401


Edited by legoboy0401, 25 November 2019 - 04:09 PM.

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SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:31 PM

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They are useful mostly for planes with very awkward burst lengths and mixed calibers - the three aircraft that they are most useful on IMO are the JL-1A-37, MiG-9 and MiG-15bis because these planes have hard hitting autocannons that overheat in an instant (about 4 - 5 shots before overheat) which gives you a very small window with which to deal damage. GoA isn't as useful in this situation simply because of how fast the guns overheat - you simply don't have time to effectively correct your aim compared with sticking RBC on.

 

Another plane I like to use the RBC on is the 190D since it has those two massive MK108s outboard - again having RBC means I have more time on target with the guns once I find the range though  tbf, there's also a case for using GoA on the Dora because the MK108s have a more workable burst length. The Shenyang and the MiGs don't.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 25 November 2019 - 04:31 PM.

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legoboy0401 #3 Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:39 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 November 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

They are useful mostly for planes with very awkward burst lengths and mixed calibers - the three aircraft that they are most useful on IMO are the JL-1A-37, MiG-9 and MiG-15bis because these planes have hard hitting autocannons that overheat in an instant (about 4 - 5 shots before overheat) which gives you a very small window with which to deal damage. GoA isn't as useful in this situation simply because of how fast the guns overheat - you simply don't have time to effectively correct your aim compared with sticking RBC on.

 

Another plane I like to use the RBC on is the 190D since it has those two massive MK108s outboard - again having RBC means I have more time on target with the guns once I find the range though  tbf, there's also a case for using GoA on the Dora because the MK108s have a more workable burst length. The Shenyang and the MiGs don't.


They sound like they would be a good fit for the Ju-87G and Ju-88P, too, not that many people would keep them, but still. Those guns overheat in very few shots(like 3 or 4).


Edited by legoboy0401, 25 November 2019 - 04:39 PM.

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#Givingupneveris


KAIM_INVICTUS #4 Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:49 PM

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I use that for Me P.1092 and Me P.1101.

Their MG-213C has good damage stability and poor firing time (about 3 seconds). I can't feel any difference between using Gas operated action and not. However, extending firing time by using bolt carrier helps to kill higher durability aircraft certainly.

hoom #5 Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:52 PM

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I have them on my Il-40 since I found I often overheated the guns shooting at stuff.

Might well be that GoA would be the better choice but I haven't got round to testing it yet.

 


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LMG #6 Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:07 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 25 November 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

They sound like they would be a good fit for the Ju-87G and Ju-88P, too, not that many people would keep them, but still. Those guns overheat in very few shots(like 3 or 4).

 

They are indeed good on those planes (and the Hs 129 B). They can actually fire quite a few shots before overheating, and cool down really fast too, but since they're all about non-stop shooting you might as well let them fire for as long as possible :playing:


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wylleEcoyote #7 Posted 25 November 2019 - 11:11 PM

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The TL;DR version:
If your weapons are (light or heavy) machine guns; RBC's are useless. 

If they are near perfect auto-cannons then its a match made in heaven.
The RBC gives you more and more near-perfect auto-cannon to shoot when others would be waiting for guns to cool down.

Until the cannon caliber gets near the 40mm range and beyond. At which point the results get "complicated".
To the point where their function is either P e r f e c t i o n  or no longer worth taking up the equipment slot.
The detailed version:

On a gun system that is otherwise wonderful except that they overheat too soon. RBC's are the best because they let you keep shooting just that much longer.
 
Spoiler
 

There is of course a downside to this. Increasing your Burst Length by 24.8%  will cost you an accuracy nerf of 15.6%

How bad can that be? Its pretty bad. As a point of reference, Marksman 2 buffs your accuracy only 10%
 
Spoiler

But what about Heavies and Attackers?  well honestly RBC is not as necessary. Sure getting more shots is good. 
But as those classes go both of them have longer burst lengths (because there is more room for more bullets historically) compared to everyone else already.
Spoiler


What about the Big CANNONS 37 43 57mm etc? 
THe direct benefit is a numbers game that is Harshly controlled by the low single digit burst lengths these guns have.
Usually the bonus cooldown rate or rate of fire bonus is more consistently valuable, until the the Burst Length maths get juuust right.  
For example:

 

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Maqor #8 Posted 26 November 2019 - 12:13 AM

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So far, I only use them on the post-nerf Pancake.

desert786 #9 Posted 26 November 2019 - 12:49 AM

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View PostKAIM_INVICTUS, on 25 November 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

I use that for Me P.1092 and Me P.1101.

Their MG-213C has good damage stability and poor firing time (about 3 seconds). I can't feel any difference between using Gas operated action and not. However, extending firing time by using bolt carrier helps to kill higher durability aircraft certainly.


i can feel the difference between GOA/RBC and long guns on the 1101. recently i put GOA on the 1101 flew it around for about 10 battle and switched back to long guns. my reasoning is that those 20's have good accuracy at range and since my play style is to start tap firing at about 1000-1100m. the difference in the dispersion at those ranges are very noticeable. for instance with LGB i can confidently head on a J7W2/3 and kill/ disable them enough before they come within their gun range. with GOA not only do you not have that 100m extra buffer, the dispersion effects are great enough to be unable to will a majority of head on's before coming into gun range. this make one have to pull off target, dodge and reengage. which is ok if its a 1v1, but if you are engaging multiple targets. this means you have to take more time dealing with the j7, before engaging addition targets. i dont have to tel you this , but for others, time is crucial in dogfights.

 

granted i didn't play with GOA for an extended amount of time. i did not fully learn the ins and outs of the equipment. in addition i already have a set play style that i make work. this let me see the advantage and disadvantages to both equipment. with my play style of the 1101 I did not find the shorter range dps or burst length all that valuable. even when put in situation where the GOA was valuable, i found that is was not using the fully burst length, which is what RBC would add. i should also add that i run Adrenalin Rush on the pilot, this maybe why i am so comfortable tap firing is close combat situations. Again i am falling back into "my play style." the only use i see with RBC on the 1101 is for dealing with "larger" targets. which the MM seems to be full of these days. this means RBC is a good "generalist" piece of equipment, making solo qing a bit easier?

 

 

 

 

 

 

now onto RBC. its good on the later migs. RBC lets you fire more 37mm's. 37mm shells do big dmg. EZ choice. they also let you be lazy while aiming. the migs have a kinda short burst, combined with high speed mean u tend to pass your target while searching for hit reg. with RBC it just lets you hold down the fire button and find the sweet spot. very lazy.

 

the tier 8 German LF's could benefit from LBC. the TA has 3 shots with the nerf and the me's burst is atrocious.  i have not tested RBC on either, but i have thrown them on the Ho 229, LoL's. accuracy takes a hit but "big guns" mostly hit thru auto aim so it not that big of a deal.

 

i'd say the swift might be a candidate, but ADEN's are wonky AF. i have managed to make GOA work on the swift pretty well, but have not tested RBC. if i do it would prob be the USA RBC specifically since it has a good ROF buff. i feel that ADEN's need that ROF buff more than the other 30mm equipped planes due to how the shells perform. higher ROF feels like it fills in the gaps between shells, which is what missing with ADEN's feels like.

 

i have also tried pairing RBC with both LGB and GOA on the 1102 and 1099 b-2 to not very good effect. with LGB you don't have the ROF to kill armored GT's and with GOA you dont have the range/time to to kill armored GT's. In general you don't utilize the extended burst length while shooting ground targets. i have found just doing more dmg in shorter amounts of time GOA and LGB pair far better.

 

i am not familiar with any mid tier plane that would benefit from RBC. the only plane i have RBC at mid tier on is the Ki 94-1. which is a meme plane with very short burst length, my US RBC is on that and every once in a while i will pair it with german GOA for maximum memes of about 1100 cumulative dmg. at tier 7.

 

 

 

RBC is kinda of a niche equipment. it can work any any aircraft, but it only shines on a choice few aircraft. Or if you can make it work with your play style, go for it.


Edited by desert786, 26 November 2019 - 12:49 AM.


GonerNL #10 Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:49 AM

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View Posthoom, on 25 November 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

I have them on my Il-40 since I found I often overheated the guns shooting at stuff.

Might well be that GoA would be the better choice but I haven't got round to testing it yet.

 

I'm using Long Gun Barrels on all my GA to be able to shoot up AA from far away ... range and accuracy.


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mad_dog_morgan #11 Posted 26 November 2019 - 10:52 AM

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I tend to use them on short-range large calibre cannon like the US 37mm on the p38 my Asia sever one is gold maxed the DPS of that and its 50's burn bombers down real fast enough for, regular hero of the skies medals even tried it on a Ta 152 once that extra burp sometimes does nice things to stuff.

But the place were you can really get some use out of it is the IL20 I can flip a cap with guns only in no time at all . Garrisons rockets and bombers no we Don't need no rockets and bombes with that much DPS.GA's love it you can just keep those guns earning their money.  



White_Widow18 #12 Posted 26 November 2019 - 05:42 PM

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Anything with a small # of fast overheat guns or which have under-punch issues but not ToT issues necessarily. I.E. Swift, KI-162-III, J7W3, Ki-94-I, MiG(most of the line), XF-90(it's valid, I've experimented with it. I prefer gas action, but still), XP-58(some people prefer this to gas action, I think ping is a deciding factor there), the Russian MRFs, F-94D, XF5U, the German Heavies are also not a bad candidate but there I think t's preference, and most of my GAA are running them. I have plenty of time to keep pegging the target in a gaa, it's overheat that is often the issue, especially in the gun-based German line... though, my T10 is currently running GAO and RBC... Sure.. I can't hit anything at distance.. but I can spray it to death and weirdly it works.

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 26 November 2019 - 05:43 PM.


CorvusCorvax #13 Posted 27 November 2019 - 02:14 AM

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I use them, in general, only on GAAs that have a gun slot.  Otherwise, GOA or LGB.

Landsraad #14 Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:06 AM

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So, just to clarify, sounds like this would be a good mod for an autocannon reliant plane like the Ho 229, right? Or am I just misunderstanding the discourse?

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legoboy0401 #15 Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:14 AM

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View PostLandsraad, on 26 November 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:

So, just to clarify, sounds like this would be a good mod for an autocannon reliant plane like the Ho 229, right? Or am I just misunderstanding the discourse?


HA. HA. HA. Like it would really need it if you have low ping. Not. But yeah, that sounds about right, or at least, that’s what I have gathered from the discussion on this piece of equipment.


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Reitousair #16 Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:41 AM

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View PostLandsraad, on 26 November 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

So, just to clarify, sounds like this would be a good mod for an autocannon reliant plane like the Ho 229, right? Or am I just misunderstanding the discourse?

 

Ho-229 is a weird one, due to how fast the guns overheat it's actually more effective to equip a Gas Operated Action (GOA.)

 

You get the same amount of shots, but GOA allows for less time between them, less accuracy penalty, the same cooling bonuses as Reinforced Bolt Carriers (RBC,) and fire chance bonuses.

 

Sniper planes tend to have people pick either Long Gun Barrels (LGB) or GOA anyways, either for extra damage and range with no accuracy penalty or to alleviate the incredibly low RoF and fire chance of sniper cannons.


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legoboy0401 #17 Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:45 AM

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View PostReitousair, on 26 November 2019 - 09:41 PM, said:

 

Ho-229 is a weird one, due to how fast the guns overheat it's actually more effective to equip a Gas Operated Action (GOA.)

 

You get the same amount of shots, but GOA allows for less time between them, less accuracy penalty, the same cooling bonuses as Reinforced Bolt Carriers (RBC,) and fire chance bonuses.

 

Sniper planes tend to have people pick either Long Gun Barrels (LGB) or GOA anyways, either for extra damage and range with no accuracy penalty or to alleviate the incredibly low RoF and fire chance of sniper cannons.


Interesting. What about the Ki-45, 102, and 93?


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NovaTempest #18 Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:38 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 25 November 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

They are useful mostly for planes with very awkward burst lengths and mixed calibers - the three aircraft that they are most useful on IMO are the JL-1A-37, MiG-9 and MiG-15bis because these planes have hard hitting autocannons that overheat in an instant (about 4 - 5 shots before overheat) which gives you a very small window with which to deal damage. GoA isn't as useful in this situation simply because of how fast the guns overheat - you simply don't have time to effectively correct your aim compared with sticking RBC on.

 

Another plane I like to use the RBC on is the 190D since it has those two massive MK108s outboard - again having RBC means I have more time on target with the guns once I find the range though  tbf, there's also a case for using GoA on the Dora because the MK108s have a more workable burst length. The Shenyang and the MiGs don't.


SpiritFoxMY is absolutely correct here, the RBC's are best on Planes like the MiG-9 and MiG-15bis, I in fact have it on my own MiG-9, and plan to stick it on my MiG-15bis once i specialize it.

However I also put it on a bit of an oddball, you could say I made more of an extreme use of it than SpiritFox.

I stuck RBC on my Ta 152. :teethhappy:

Some here might think I am insane doing this, but with how intermittent lag spikes have been in fashion for several years now, long range sniping is exceedingly difficult because of that. Despite previous nerfs to the Ta 152, I have made it a turnable, high speed fighter that not only can hammer planes from a distance, but can also get in slugger brawls with most other fighters save for spits, yaks, lavochkins and vampires - and even these latter planes I can really make a mess out of with 1 good burst. And with RBCs on, I can fire the Mk-103s not only considerably more times before overheating, but also more frequently, as I obtained a cooldown speed bonus on it too.

An unconventional build, but a very functional one nonetheless with how the game is nowadays.



trikke #19 Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:51 PM

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I've never once stuck a RBC on anything I own.   I always go gas-operated

 

hmmm...  this thread has made me reconsider my entire life.     

 

I'm going to quit my job and try new experiences out in the world.     ty, OP!

 


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Captain_Underpants53 #20 Posted 27 November 2019 - 05:45 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 27 November 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

I've never once stuck a RBC on anything I own.   I always go gas-operated

 

hmmm...  this thread has made me reconsider my entire life.     

 

I'm going to quit my job and try new experiences out in the world.     ty, OP!

 


Taking a walk on the wild side, are we?

 

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