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Ground attacks


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crzyhawk #1 Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:09 PM

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How are you supposed to play these?  I've got the IL-2 Mod from a code, just got a Wirraway from a crate and had picked up a BSH-1 a long time ago.  The Wirraway after 1 battle seems...not so bad as the BSH did.  How do you play these things effectively?  my Wirraway game wasn't awful, 10k cp in a loss, but a good portion of that was a Hawk 75 that kept losing dogfights to me.  I can't count on running into players who'll be so accommodating.

 

The bomb reload seems kinda meh, they've all got no altitude available to work with, slow, unmaneuverable, and the tail gun mostly tickles people.  generally in my fighters and fighter-bombers I tend to treat red GA as flying bags of combat points, but they /do/ tend to flip things fairly quickly.  I don't feel like I am doing that.  What's the trick to making these things more than fodder for fighters?


Edited by crzyhawk, 13 October 2019 - 03:12 PM.

Specialist A/C

USA: XP31; F11C-2; YP29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; XF4U-1; P39N; F4U-1,-4ROC: Hawk II; Ki43c; Tomahawk IIb; P51K |

UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


Captain_Rownd #2 Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:13 PM

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Different GA will have different capabilities.  Guns, rockets, bombs - attack the sections of ground targets which you're most effective against.  For instance, use your guns on tents, and bombs on concrete bunkers.  Prioritize accordingly.

 

Yes you will be shot down a lot, but don't be afraid to shoot back, and always try to kill the enemy GA.  Wirraway in particular, with those tiny bombs, is more of a ground-level dog-fighter than a GA.  (On the other hand Ju 87 G has weird guns that are great for ground targets but can't hit planes at all.)  IL-2 (mod) can do just about everything with ease.  If you have tail-gunners put the 3-point critical hit skill on them, but otherwise tailgunners are fairly useless at low Tiers. 

 

My first experience with defenseless GA was a shock long ago, but now I really enjoy them.  Lots of blowing stuff up is always fun, even if you have to blow up yourself. 

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, 13 October 2019 - 03:19 PM.

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SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:46 PM

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Ok, so I can only speak for the Wirraway since I'm a pretty bad GAA pilot all told (I'm a well-known treehugger. Also building, mountain and radio tower-hugger), but overall the main thing about GAAs is to steer clear of the main fight and work your way around the edges. You don't have the speed of a bomber to outpace pursuers or to rapidly move around caps so there's a lot of pre-planning that goes into flying them, especially the lower-tier GAAs where you simply don't have ANY speed whatsoever. 

 

A foreknowledge of which caps are important and which are not is something that applies to all attackers - as a rule, don't bother with airfields and airbases unless you just happen to wander by them on your way to more important targets; there aren't enough ground targets in an airfield for any kind of ground pounder to cap and while you can do so with an airbase, the fact is that both these caps are better left to fighters since they are almost always crawling with hostile airplanes that will eat you alive. Garrisons are usually good targets as they can be fairly easily flipped with little resistance as can Mining Plants. CCs are dangerous for the sheer amount of AA fire that it can throw up and Missile Bases can be problematic owing to the single monolithic structure in the middle basically eating all your bombs.

 

The Wirraway is a really good little dogfighter once you get the hang of "doing the slow". Keep your speed low and if you need to, use vertical maneuvers to kill speed even faster - you basically want to force your opponent to either stall out or crash into you. Your own stall speed is extremely low and now that they've made stalling a lot more gentle than before, its even easier than it was to pull stall turns and hammerheads close to the ground. Your two guns have pretty decent DPS if you can bring them to bear and you shouldn't be shy about taking potshots at ADA fighters if you're top tier. Even if you're downtiered, you can still use your guns to snap up wounded targets of opportunity. 

 

The "do the slow" is generally advice that you should take into all other GAAs as that is their singular advantage against an attacking fighter. Also experiment with timing your bomb drops. Bomb-trapping people is a staple in a good GAA pilot's repertoire. At the very least, it forces a human player to treat you with caution since he's going to always keep one eye on your bomb racks to see if you're going to lay an egg in his face. 

 

That's about the best advice I can give you - from one noob to another I'm afraid.

1. Don't rely on your tailgun or your allies to clear tail; learn to fight very low and very slow with liberal bomb-trapping applied.

2. Maintain map awareness at all time, especially where the enemy team is and which caps will be most beneficial for you to flip; its a chess game of preplanning and monitoring the battle as it unfolds 

3. Know your caps and your targets and the number of bombs, rockets and cannon shots it takes to kill each type of building. Efficiency is the name of the game in a GAA as much as it is a Bomber

 

Finally, with some exceptions (like the Wirraway) don't bother trying to dogfight other GAAs. Its a waste of time that could be better used elsewhere. Take potshots and make attacks of opportunity if you can but there are dedicated GAA-dogfighters who are generally about as useful as balls on an mule to their team.


***

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So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


crzyhawk #4 Posted 13 October 2019 - 03:54 PM

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hmmm working the flanks is a good tip.  I usually feel like I should be working high priority targets like command centers, but hitting the enemy where he isn't makes a huge amount of sense for a plane that struggles to defend itself.  I don't see myself doing GAA regularly, but it would be good to know the basics of how they work.  It also makes me see the virtues of my Thunderbolt much more when it comes to flipping targets.

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USA: XP31; F11C-2; YP29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; XF4U-1; P39N; F4U-1,-4ROC: Hawk II; Ki43c; Tomahawk IIb; P51K |

UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


LMG #5 Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:08 PM

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And here we... go! :popcorn:

GAA Guide


Edited by LMG, 13 October 2019 - 10:58 PM.

This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Maqor #6 Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:30 PM

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Go fast between zones but slow way down when attacked. Weave back and forth while going slow to make it tough for enemies to stay on your tail. (If you have a tail gunner, you can hit T and watch your enemy. This makes it easier to keep his guns off you.)

 

Learn how many bombs, rockets, or shots your GA needs to take out each kind of ground target. Also learn how many capture points each target is worth. Put this together to find the optimal plan of attack for each base.

 

Get your head in the right place for ground attack work. I really struggle with that. I hate getting shot down and love killing enemies. You gotta let that go and focus on capturing bases. I do my best in a GA when I act like a ninja and try to sneak by unnoticed.



losttwo #7 Posted 13 October 2019 - 09:34 PM

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Low tier GAA and my experience:

 I use only Premium GAA of tier 2,3 and 4 and have a the German tier 4 GA.

Tactical attack plan is :

 As soon as battle starts I hit the " H " or for you function key players that would be the " SUPPORT " key f?

Target priority's are the large central targets of the Mining Plant > Military Plant> Command Center> Airfield ( tower )  > Garrison ( 2 main building sets ) 

 I only mess with AA when the daily mission calls for it or its in my path.

For airfield and garrison it is best to concentrate on the ADA rather than ground targets. Once your bombs and rockets are spent.

Some maps it is also better to focus on the ADA of the Command center because there are only 3.

 

You will struggle with the low tiers until you get pilot and gunner trained with at least 4 skill sets.

I have speed builds for specialization but that is up to you.

Terrain is your friend so make use of the camo and 10 meter above the ground flying.

I tend to weave in and out of canyons a lot. 1 map you can even travel under a rock and make any following enemy crash.

BOOST when there is no enemy around and you need to get from sector to sector.

Use a lot of brake and flaps while in sector.

Average bomb range for trailing enemy is about 100 meters 25 meters off the deck.

 

"Clear my tail" is basically useless and pulls friendlies out of altitude where they need to be.

Do not be scared to dogfight



vcharng #8 Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:48 AM

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None of the GAAs you mention are actually good GAAs.

The problem fro Low (= less than Tier V or VI) tier GAAs is that they usually don't have high-caliber guns, and unfortunately hard targets do not soften themselves by tier.

For GAAs without anything at least 20mm, the common practice would be to use your bombs and rockets, and then start hunting other GAAs. some planes are particularly good in this, such as Hs 123, Fw 189, etc.

 

IL-2 mod is notably weaker than its tech tree counterpart, the IL-2 of tier V due to the reduced munition load. The guns are mostly used against soft targets, and you pretty much rely on rockets and bombs for hard targets.



cobra_marksman #9 Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:48 AM

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The game is based on being a team player, everyone has a mission to accomplish.

As a Gaa pilot your mission :playing: is to take out high priority ground targets, and eliminate any ( if not all ) AA  guns firing on your teammates. 

If you being supported by fighters protecting your 6, and helping you to flip the base.....then....you need to neutralize any AA guns firing at them.

The AA Guns....will chew up your fighters & bombers. So a priority for you .....is to eliminated them.

You don't need to take out the complete AA target, but you must take out the guns ..... that are firing at them.:great:


Edited by cobra_marksman, 14 October 2019 - 11:49 AM.


msu_mark #10 Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:40 PM

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I second what cobra_marksman said. He's about the best GA flyer in the game.

Your priority sectors are: 1) Mining Plant (if you get there fast shouldn't have any problem with fighters), 2)Military Base (your team NEEDS missiles!!!), 3) Airbase or Garrison depending on the situation.

If you can go in under bombers that's a plus. They'll take enemy fighters higher so they won't bother you.



Zinpanzer #11 Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:21 AM

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OK, this all helps.  I actually prefer the Russian Attack aircraft.  Which seems to make me a minority.  The problem I was having, is once I got the Bsh-2, I felt naked without a turret.  It felt like I was getting shot down a lot more.  And not just by players, but local air defense craft.  I picked up the German Fi98 and had a heck of a time.  Someone mentioned letting someone crash into the back of your plane.  Why would you do that?  Won't that normally take you out?  I really hate that as a tactic anyway (ramming attacks) but that's another thread.  I've decided to stay at max T4, for a bit.  I feel like there is still a lot to learn.  The AO192 seems to have similar flying characteristics to an attack craft.   Should I not be playing my low level Heavy Fighter like an Attack?

SpiritFoxMY #12 Posted 18 October 2019 - 11:02 AM

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View PostZinpanzer, on 18 October 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

OK, this all helps.  I actually prefer the Russian Attack aircraft.  Which seems to make me a minority.  The problem I was having, is once I got the Bsh-2, I felt naked without a turret.  It felt like I was getting shot down a lot more.  And not just by players, but local air defense craft.  I picked up the German Fi98 and had a heck of a time.  Someone mentioned letting someone crash into the back of your plane.  Why would you do that?  Won't that normally take you out?  I really hate that as a tactic anyway (ramming attacks) but that's another thread.  I've decided to stay at max T4, for a bit.  I feel like there is still a lot to learn.  The AO192 seems to have similar flying characteristics to an attack craft.   Should I not be playing my low level Heavy Fighter like an Attack?

 

1. The BSh-2 is actually a really good ground attack airplane and a good way to get used to mid tier GAA play where your tailguns will never be enough to keep you alive. Fancy flying is where its at and it will only get more demanding the further up the Russian tree you go. The Russian GAA tree is generally the more popular one, BTW, since they have superior alpha strike capability compared to the slow, methodical German style.

 

2.Warplanes is not War Thunder - ramming isn't instant death. Instead both planes take damage based on the weight, armor (both hidden stats) and point of impact of the respective airplanes. GAAs (especially Russian ones) have the absolute advantage in a ram because they have the most armor, most hitponts and heaviest weight of any airplanes of their tier (and often higher!) meaning you can literally splat enemies like a bug on a windshield.

 

3. Never fly a heavy like an attack. A heavy down low is a dead heavy. Although they might feel similar, they aren't. Heavies have minimal armor, half the HP and maybe a third of the weight of a GAA. Instead, keep high and dive on your prey. You're an Eagle, not a falcon, so you kill by swooping in and killing people before they can escape. If you run into trouble, just point your nose down and run. Your dive speeds are excellent and usually so is your dive acceleration. But you depend on that speed to fight and survive and since you're a lot heavier than the fighters and Multiroles around you, your base acceleration is a lot less than theirs... Unless you dive. So if you're down low, you have no place to dive and all the lighter planes will just catch you and kill you. 


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 18 October 2019 - 11:03 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Zinpanzer #13 Posted 18 October 2019 - 11:52 AM

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Thank you.  It makes sense, with the heavy's with their ceiling and I see them chase bombers.  losttwo sent me an AO-192 training video link from, YouTube.  It showed what you were saying about diving, and going back up.  I saw someone flying a bomber at ground attack level.  My reaction to that, was probably the reaction of other players watching me do the same with a heavy.  My new mantra for flying the GAA, Low and Slow.  I'll remember that.  I still like flying the Tsh-2 a lot.  It's fun mowing through the ground targets.

WhoaBlackBetty #14 Posted 18 October 2019 - 03:08 PM

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A VERY VERY quick vague and surface look at GAs cause I'm at wiork

 

USSR:  The TSH 2 is stupid.  The TSH 3 WRECKS tier 3 and 4 GTs.  Its bombs, when you learn how to use them, can bomb kill planes and destroy anything they touch.  Its guns rip through and destroy so well they will make you giggle. So many times it has been me in a TSH that has won the battle for my team.  In tier 4 I like the premium LBSH. Bombs rock, guns are ok, turning can be surprising.  Tier 5 thru 7, I tolerate.  The TSH 3 and the LBSH have great  things about them that you can take advantage of, 5 thru 7s to me are slow SLOW and just meh. I enjoy them but get itchy flying them.  

 

To me, tiers 8 thru 10 are why you fly these GAAs.  The T8 IL-20 is a dangerous work horse that tramples all in its path. Tiers 9 & 10 are GAA stallion works of art.  Dudes, I CARRY battles in these flying dangerous elephants. If not carry, I make the difference between win and loss so many times.

 

German:  I am just gonna say that they come alive at T7.  To me they do anyway.  A different way of flying GAs, strategy changes somewhat, and be ready to hit the brakes more often than with the USSRs'.

 

Basic strategy with both nations is the same:  you take out the military sectors,  mining plants, command centers, and EVERY dern AA gun having the nerve to fire at your people. You concentrate on what you are there for, and that is destroying everything on the ground that has a problem with your team.  You keep an eye on radar so you can see reds flying at you from behind so you can wiggle your fat bum a little, call for help, and maybe bomb kill the bum.  You look at sectors where there are not a lot of reds and go for them if it is strategically proper.  You NEVER give up, you always point toward the next sector and get there as fast as you can, no matter what the score or how almost dead you are.

 

Gotta go, this is just a quick summary.

 

WBB


Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 18 October 2019 - 03:10 PM.





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