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planes that really need a buff


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Silence6966 #1 Posted 04 September 2019 - 03:26 AM

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The mosquito of all the planes i have flown in this game is the one that is just nowhere near as good as it was in real life. honestly its terrible in the game, i do ok in it but it should be dominant. it should climb better than any other plane in tier other than a fw or p51 and it should outgun everything.

the FW needs a buff as well, its just all around terrible, it needs better speed, better turning and better climb.

The p51 is the same

I wont even get into how piss poor the p47 line is lol

SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 04 September 2019 - 03:39 AM

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The Mosquito is a pretty good Heavy Fighter in theory. I just haven't gotten around to using it in the way I think it should be since I ground through it before I figured out how to make its successor - the Hornet - work. I don't think it needs a buff - just a different style of play.

 

The 190 A-1 needs a buff. The other two are fine. 

 

The P-51H needs a buff. The other two are fine.

 

P-47N needs a buff. The others are... Ehhhhhhhh. They need some buffing too from tier 6 onwards really. Tier 4 and 5 are fine. Just take some getting used to. Tier 6 is decent as well but is starting to become uncompetitive 


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hoom #3 Posted 04 September 2019 - 04:30 AM

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Many of the Multiroles could do with a few % better boost acceleration & faster ordnance reload.

 

Why should Mosquito be fastest climbing & most firepower? And in what way is it currently lacking firepower?

 

Mustangs & Fw 190s are not planes which historically were known for particularly fast turning.

Fw 190s & P-47s would be ones that get a boost acceleration improvement.


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wylleEcoyote #4 Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:15 AM

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Sorry but your speech falls on deaf ears.
The perception of "Historical Dominance" or the lack thereof has no bearing on how WeeGee fine tunes its game balance.

If you try to play a plane to meet your preconceived expectations of what you think it aught to be as opposed to what the plane actually is in this arcade shootem up
its not going to go well for you.

The Thuds are 7 ton fast flying Bomb & Rocket Trucks that have enough machineguns to be a threat to midtier ground targets.  
 Fw 190's are the same. Except that they are Gun trucks. That also carry just enough bombs and rockets to threaten ground stuff.

Both are 'technically' MultiRoles but they do favor a particular aspect. And neither one is an agile machine like a Hurricane/Corsair/Yak.
But unlike those machines they DO have the speed and boost rate to leave anything else with one engine far behind them.
And keep enough agility to readily out maneuver any multi-engine craft that flies low enough for them to catch.

The Mosquito is more less of the kind of plane that favors flying very fast at tree top levels to bomb and shoot stuff that you absolutely do not want to miss the first time around.
And is also good at taking that high speed to GTFO and laugh at the interceptors trying to catch you. Usually.   But you really have to spec for speed to make that happen.
Or you could convert that airspeed into altitude to effectively chase a bomber. (maybe another heavy that is not paying attention) and shoot it in the belly.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
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losttwo #5 Posted 04 September 2019 - 07:43 AM

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First of all toss your historical dvd's out the window and forget everything you learned.

There are 2 arguments in these forums.

The one school of thought is balance between planes, the other, historical accuracy.

I have overcome both school of thoughts by simply playing the planes in different styles.

The P-51's , for example, I get in close before engaging. Then I use the entire box of ammo.

Spitfires I get in close and play with the trigger

J8M I make strafing runs on the targets.

Mosquito, well, Lets just say I use the Chinese premium.

 

The game is all about having your guns on target and nothing on your tail.

It is about target awareness and using the mini map.

 

Many veterans have learned that WG ignores our cries for buffs and nerfs.



BB3_Oregon_Steel #6 Posted 04 September 2019 - 09:34 PM

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Ok, my candidates are. 

Republic XP-44 - Steaming pile of stinky poo that it is. :angry:

FW-190A-1 - Honestly, how do you win in this hunk of crud???

 

On the other hand, planes which should be crap but aren't.

 

Seversky P-35 - Truly mediocre aircraft historically, but pretty solid in game.  

Bell P-39N-1 -  This thing should be a flying hunk of junk, but it's amazing!!!  

Oh yes, all the planes with designations starting with an X or Y (experimental and pre-production respectively) which were airplanes that in reality were not good enough to enter into production in their form at that stage. 


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 07 September 2019 - 09:20 PM.

"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


Four_Leaf_Tayback #7 Posted 04 September 2019 - 09:50 PM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 04 September 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

Republic XP-44 - Steaming pile of stinky poo that it is. :angry:

 

I am not going to try to argue that it is a good choice to win a game, but personally I really have come to love this plane as it is a really good multi-role if you play it as such.  The bomb reload speed, if I am not mistaken, is pretty good as well.  

 


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GeorgePatton #8 Posted 05 September 2019 - 01:11 AM

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LMG #9 Posted 05 September 2019 - 01:22 AM

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View PostFour_Leaf_Tayback, on 04 September 2019 - 04:50 PM, said:

I am not going to try to argue that it is a good choice to win a game, but personally I really have come to love this plane as it is a really good multi-role if you play it as such.  The bomb reload speed, if I am not mistaken, is pretty good as well.

 

60 seconds, which is double the speed of every other plane after it on the Republic line. Ironically enough, it also has the best bombs tier-for-tier in the line :izmena:


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hoom #10 Posted 05 September 2019 - 01:48 AM

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Block Quote

 Bell P-39N-1 -  This thing should be a flying hunk of junk, but it's amazing!!!  

 Yanks & Poms didn't like it but a bunch of the top Soviet aces preferred P-39s, loved to assplode nazis right out of the sky with the 37mm.


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GonerNL #11 Posted 05 September 2019 - 07:37 AM

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View Posthoom, on 05 September 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

 Yanks & Poms didn't like it but a bunch of the top Soviet aces preferred P-39s, loved to assplode nazis right out of the sky with the 37mm.

 

Later on they also got the P-63 Kingcobra, on the condition they would only be deployed against Japan. Of course they ignored the condition and did well against German planes (and later Japan).


Edited by GonerNL, 05 September 2019 - 07:39 AM.

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Stygian_Alchemist #12 Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:33 AM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 04 September 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

Ok, my candidates are. 

Republic XP-44 - Steaming pile of stinky poo that it is. :angry:
Agreed, it wasn't a super powerful plane IRL.. but it wasn't -THIS- bad.

FW-190A-1 - Honestly, how do you win in this hunk of crud???

You don't. What they've done to the FW-190 in this game is ludicrous.

On the other hand, planes which should be crap but aren't.

 

Seversky P-35 - Truly mediocre aircraft historically, but pretty solid in game.  
Eh. First generation plane, for its time period it wasn't horrible. It's one of the first all-metal military planes, it' got some stuff going for it comparative to its predecessors and while its an early version of its contemporaries isn't horrible comparatively either.

Bell P-39N-1 -  This thing should be a flying hunk of junk, but it's amazing!!!  
I will categorically disagree with this. Its only -real- weakness was altitude. That was due to a lack of a proper supercharger, otherwise the plane was rather good.

 

Oh yes, all the planes with designations starting with an X or Y (experimental and pre-production respectively) which were airplanes that in reality were not good enough to enter into produce in their form at that stage. 
-Many- planes never went to production because of the advent of the jet age or because of limited war materiel. Not because they weren't good enough. Feels like a bad faith argument to say that they should be reduced in stats because they didn't go to production. Others also weren't because they were prohibitively expensive, nations collapsed, or because maintenance (which is not a thing in this game) was a nightmare. 



BB3_Oregon_Steel #13 Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:33 PM

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Well, I had the benefit of living next to a WWII ace in the Pacific theater who was there from Pearl Harbor in his P-36 to the end of the war flying P-51's.  In between he also spent a lot of time in P-40's and the P-39.  

 

Of course, anyone who has spent any time looking at the P-39 understands that the performance of the aircraft was damaged by two important decisions. 

 

1) Turbocharger:  During the plane's development it was decided to not mount a supercharger which crippled it's performance at high altitudes.  Some of the last versions restored the supercharger but it was a single stage supercharger rather than the more common and effective dual stage superchargers used by aircraft equipped with Packard built Merlin engine. 

 

2) Allison V-1710:  The Allison V-1710 was the US airforce's premier inline engine but compared to it's rivals, it had mediocre performance, especially at high altitude.  It's very possible the P-39's performance would have significantly improved had it been possible to fit the Merlin engine built by Packard but production of the P-51 pretty much used up the vast majority of it's production so second line aircraft, like the P-39 and P-40, had to normally make due with the Allison engine,. 

 

One aspect of the P-39 which my friend made me aware of that isn't listed in any book that I've read was it's center of gravity.  According to him the Aircobra was a very "stable" plane but when damaged had a tendency to go into a flat spin which was unrecoverable.  All in all, he told me "I'd rather fly a bus than a P-39".

 

And yes, some Y and X designation planes may have been ok but most of them never progressed beyond their prototype stages because competing aircraft were better or the design simply gave poor performance which is not reflected in the game.  Just in general, there's a reason a number of these aircraft never made it to front line squadrons while others did.  

 

I think, in general, WG tends to wear rose colored glasses when working with planes that barely or never were giving the performance capabilities they probably shouldn't have.  You're right of course in some of these aircraft were never produced because outside forces intervened that had nothing to do with the airplane's performance, but I kind of look at those as exceptions to the rule.

 

Of course most planes in this game have at least one fatal flaw ... 

 

THEY AREN'T BIPLANES!!!!!   YAY BIPLANES!!! :kamikaze:


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 06 September 2019 - 12:26 AM.

"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


Postal_Monkey #14 Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:16 PM

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View PostSilence6966, on 04 September 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

The mosquito of all the planes i have flown in this game is the one that is just nowhere near as good as it was in real life. honestly its terrible in the game, i do ok in it but it should be dominant. it should climb better than any other plane in tier other than a fw or p51 and it should outgun everything.

the FW needs a buff as well, its just all around terrible, it needs better speed, better turning and better climb.

The p51 is the same

I wont even get into how piss poor the p47 line is lol

I'm sure it's already been said but WG is more focused on arcade balance, not historical accuracy. If the buff/nerf fits into the balance then maybe it will happen.



Silence6966 #15 Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:26 PM

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View Posthoom, on 04 September 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

Many of the Multiroles could do with a few % better boost acceleration & faster ordnance reload.

 

Why should Mosquito be fastest climbing & most firepower? And in what way is it currently lacking firepower?

 

Mustangs & Fw 190s are not planes which historically were known for particularly fast turning.

Fw 190s & P-47s would be ones that get a boost acceleration improvement.

View Posthoom, on 04 September 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

Many of the Multiroles could do with a few % better boost acceleration & faster ordnance reload.

 

Why should Mosquito be fastest climbing & most firepower? And in what way is it currently lacking firepower?

 

Mustangs & Fw 190s are not planes which historically were known for particularly fast turning.

Fw 190s & P-47s would be ones that get a boost acceleration improvement.

because it was literally a gamechanging aircraft that had ridiculous climb and turn characteristics for a plane its size



Silence6966 #16 Posted 06 September 2019 - 10:30 PM

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View Posthoom, on 05 September 2019 - 01:48 AM, said:

 Yanks & Poms didn't like it but a bunch of the top Soviet aces preferred P-39s, loved to assplode nazis right out of the sky with the 37mm.

its interesting because the russians didnt like the spit either, the americans who flew the p39 didnt like it, because when damaged it became unstable af



LMG #17 Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:33 PM

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View PostSilence6966, on 06 September 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

its interesting because the russians didnt like the spit either, the americans who flew the p39 didnt like it, because when damaged it became unstable af

 

Well, in general the USSR mostly used "disposable" equipment in WWII due to the nature of the eastern front. They were fighting a war of attrition. It didn't matter if their equipment could last forever if they were expecting it do be destroyed after one or two battles, just that it could deal with enemies and that there was a lot of it :izmena:


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SpiritFoxMY #18 Posted 07 September 2019 - 12:15 AM

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View PostSilence6966, on 07 September 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

because it was literally a gamechanging aircraft that had ridiculous climb and turn characteristics for a plane its size

 

The Mosquito was gamechanging mostly because of its wooden construction, being the most successful such aircraft of the war. Its legendary speed and altitude were a reflection of the unarmed reconnaissance and light bomber versions, not the heavily armed fighter bomber we have here. In this guise, while still a capable airplane, it wasn't untouchable. Bear that in mind.

 

I'm also of the opinion that too many people buy into the legends and not the facts but WeeGee and historical accuracy aren't exactly tied either

 

View PostSilence6966, on 07 September 2019 - 06:30 AM, said:

its interesting because the russians didnt like the spit either, the americans who flew the p39 didnt like it, because when damaged it became unstable af

 

Actually, the P39s instability apparently originated from the 37mm ammo storage. The plane had been designed and tested with a simulated full load of shells. Once those had been used up, it shifted the centre of gravity far enough to destabilise the plane, allowing it to enter an unrecoverable flat spin. Combined with the awkward car door style cockpit, the plane was exceptionally dangerous to its pilots since you couldn't get out quickly in a crisis. There was a hilarious little ditty from an article about Chuck Yeager I still remember:

 

Don't give me a P-39

With an engine that's mounted behind

It'll tumble and roll 

And drill a big hole

Don't give me a P-39

 

Anyway, the differences in opinion regarding the various airplanes had more to do with operational requirements. The P-39s simply didn't have the altitude to operate effectively in the ETO but this was not a problem on the Eastern Front where most of the flying and fighting were down low where the P-39 excelled. The Airacobra was luxuriously built with fantastic ergonomics compared to the Russian's own craft hence its popularity. 

 

The Russians distaste for the Spitfire comes from receiving old, worn out Spitfire Vs in late 43 - 44 when it was well past its prime. The same probably applied to the Mustangs since both of these were premier fighter craft of their own nations who kinda understandably wanted to keep the bulk of their production to themselves.

 


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crzyhawk #19 Posted 07 September 2019 - 12:21 AM

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View Posthoom, on 04 September 2019 - 08:48 PM, said:

 Yanks & Poms didn't like it but a bunch of the top Soviet aces preferred P-39s, loved to assplode nazis right out of the sky with the 37mm.

 

I'd really like a P-400.  I hate the 37mm, replace it with a 20 though?  Yes, please.


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