44 replies to this topic

[InfiniZ3ro]

When flighting, I seem to score a bit lower than when solo but, winrate goes up usually.  With that being said, when flighted with other pilot, do you stick close together or just play "your" game and hope for the best? I understand that plane type dictated a bit, but how do you play flights generally?

Edited by InfiniZ3ro, 24 August 2019 - 06:02 AM.

[Captain_Underpants53]

I think it's very situational.  So much varies depending on the map and the planes involved that I doubt that there is one simple answer to this.  Like so many other things, I think it boils down to experience.

[InfiniZ3ro]

Yeah, I understand that.  May be the best answer is to discuss with your wingman before shoving off.

Edited by InfiniZ3ro, 24 August 2019 - 06:03 AM.

[SpiritFoxMY]

I almost always split up - the idea is that two good pilots going to different caps can cap twice as fast as two good pilots flying around together. The exception is usually just the opening of a match or if I run into HVAR

[losttwo]

SpiritFoxMY, on 24 August 2019 - 03:04 AM, said:

I almost always split up - the idea is that two good pilots going to different caps can cap twice as fast as two good pilots flying around together. The exception is usually just the opening of a match or if I run into HVAR

[trikke]

good question, infini0!

I see flighted turnfighters flying together, and they're almost unstoppable, if they own the airbase that you're fighting them in

until you can force them outta that airbase by capping elsewhere and BnZ one of them, you're likely to lose

Flighted heavies flying together have the hp to play rope-a-dope 

one climbs and absorbs your punches, while the other one slips in behind you

[SkyWolf__WM]

Captain_Underpants53, on 24 August 2019 - 12:58 AM, said:

I think it's very situational.  So much varies depending on the map and the planes involved that I doubt that there is one simple answer to this.  Like so many other things, I think it boils down to experience.

 

This. Many times it depends on pilot skill and situation. 

[Sam_BoomBoom_Novac]

Yeah. it's situational, to include what tier you are flying, what planes you are flying, and how good one of both pilots are.

 

I have seen and been a part of the unstoppable flights, and they are almost always flying at least in the same sector killing and watching the other's six.  I have seen a couple certain GA pilots who separate  almost every time because they are both VERY dangerous and competent and splitting up takes two sectors at a time instead of just one.  There are other strategic advantages to that.

 

As a rule, I would think that for fighters, light and heavy, it is best to  fly close enough to each other, to blow people off the other's tail while killing off enemies.  If one pilot is great and the other is not so much, then the not so much needs to watch the good pilot's tail, usually.  If both are not good, then never split up.  If both are good, depending on how many humans are on the other side, and sometimes WHICH humans are,  some splitting up can safely occur.

 

These is just a few things off the top of my head.  How to flight is not a simple one answer  fits all.

 

WBB

Edited by WhoaBlackBetty, 24 August 2019 - 03:25 PM.

[InfiniZ3ro]

Thx for the replies.  I get that it generally is situational.  I guess I usually feel an obligation to follow around my flight mate to make sure they're clear to inflict damage.  Light fighters seems more easily defined to me but when mixing and matching planes is where it gets a bit fuzzy.  I always feel bad when my flight mate dies as I feel like I should have been able to prevent it.  Almost all of my flights are not using voice chat either.  I still think hashing out a general plan before taking off is the best bet.

Edited by InfiniZ3ro, 24 August 2019 - 06:55 PM.

[CorvusCorvax]

Almost always, I try and stick with my flightmate.  Regardless of what else is going on, the less time you spend in respawn and in transit, the more good you can do on a map.  The two-GAA flight that splits up is SUPER rough, because one is bait, and the other is capping.  And not easy-meat bait, either - you have to work at it.  Unless you're flighted with another person who can harass the other GAA, it is almost always a win for them.  I have had ONE battle where the two-GAA team did not win, and only because of stupid luck.  I killed one right before the squall, then 15 seconds later, came upon the other one with less than half HP.  One-pass with my HF, rush over to the red spawn just in time to catch the other one.  Four passes and half my HP later, the second guy is done.

Meanwhile, my bots have done great work in capturing back 4 of 5, and the fifth cap is right in front of me just as my bombs reload.  Flip the cap for superiority, then hunt down the last of the reds.  I acknowledged to my opponents that I got super-lucky.

In any case, as a LF/HF driver, I am almost always more likely to stick with my flightmate and cover.  Yes, the point total is almost always lower, but the wins (and salvage parts) make up for it.

[White_Widow18]

I've found that sticking together is a waste of damage output in -most- situations.

Sure everything in front of you melts like the wicked witch of the west taking a shower, but you also took a huge chunk of your team's damage and kept it in one spot or path. Spread it out a little bit and caps drop faster.

[CorvusCorvax]

Stygian_Alchemist, on 24 August 2019 - 06:56 PM, said:

I've found that sticking together is a waste of damage output in -most- situations.

Sure everything in front of you melts like the wicked witch of the west taking a shower, but you also took a huge chunk of your team's damage and kept it in one spot or path. Spread it out a little bit and caps drop faster.

Well, my flighted win rate would argue the point.

[Wombatmetal]

I find it's very situational. One of the factors is who is flighted on the other and what do they do. How do you counter them.

Watch Veebat's and Postal Monkey's Friday Night Flights. They each post a battle each week, the flight from two perspectives.

[White_Widow18]

CorvusCorvax, on 24 August 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Well, my flighted win rate would argue the point.

So would mine?

Are we agreeing or disagreeing here? I'm mildly confused by your initial post. Mine was just in response to Infini and laying out my experiences that splitting up is a vicious way to win.. admittedly I'm also possibly biased by my generally chosen plane types and that is reflected in my efficiency and etc. stats.

Editing to add: And I appreciate anyone disagreeing. Flights are somewhat anecdotal and down to the skills of the flighted people and the way they can best complement one another.

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 24 August 2019 - 08:40 PM.

[CorvusCorvax]

Stygian_Alchemist, on 24 August 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

Are we agreeing or disagreeing here?

You claimed it's a waste of damage output in "most" situations.

Without knowing the conditions, that argument is pretty hard to make.  I generally fly in support of some other aircraft - my partner picks his machine, and I support that machine with whatever I think best.  Since the maps that are assigned are essentially random, you make an on-the-fly strategic choice about how to do the map, then adjust the game plan over the course of the battle.  By sticking together (no matter what the aircraft pairing), my flight wins over 90% of the time.  I will admit that my preferential aircraft are HF, LF, and MRF, in that order.  They lend themselves to support of Bombers and GAA, for sure. 

[White_Widow18]

CorvusCorvax, on 24 August 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

You claimed it's a waste of damage output in "most" situations.

Without knowing the conditions, that argument is pretty hard to make.  I generally fly in support of some other aircraft - my partner picks his machine, and I support that machine with whatever I think best.  Since the maps that are assigned are essentially random, you make an on-the-fly strategic choice about how to do the map, then adjust the game plan over the course of the battle.  By sticking together (no matter what the aircraft pairing), my flight wins over 90% of the time.  I will admit that my preferential aircraft are HF, LF, and MRF, in that order.  They lend themselves to support of Bombers and GAA, for sure. 

Looking at our comparative win rates, I wouldn't use that as your leading argument against my anecdote and for yours... personally.

That aside, again, it's all technically anecdotal.. but the only time I've had a losing streak in recent memory was when my flightmate and I stayed with each other non-stop. Do we meet up sometimes to take a node or purposely bring our pathing together to defend or or or? Yes. Do we stay on each other's tails and play follow the leader generally? Nah. How do you think I managed to beat Zig -and- Prenz with a GAA? We did -not- stick together by -any- stretch of the imagination.

But even with "most situations" covering say 7/10 situations, that still means 30% of the game we're on top of each other. That's not an insignificant amount of time either way.

Really I suppose the best answer is "It's timing dependent." It's the most accurate even above class or personal capacities. Because I have no doubt you go haring off away from your flight partner. I've flighted against you and watched you do it. 

We may both also be inaccurately representing how much time we spend away from vs. near our flight partners due to internal biases.

I'd like to think though that we can agree that on top of each other vs. not in a flight is -very- dependent on timing vs. what's going on in the match?

And my preferred are GAA, HF, Bomber, LF. I still haven't found many MRFs I really.. click with.
Editing to add: I usually get pigeon-holed into bomber for flight purposes though. Not necessarily complaining, just acknowledging.

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 24 August 2019 - 09:04 PM.

[CorvusCorvax]

Stygian_Alchemist, on 24 August 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

Looking at our comparative win rates, I wouldn't use that as your leading argument against my anecdote and for yours... personally.

 

I didn't know my flighted win rate was a published stat.  Can you point out where that is located? 

 

In any case, your claim is not supported by any kind of data, so let's just call it a personal opinion.  I mean, it's interesting and all (like what plane is "better"), but doesn't become fact by ever-more-strident repetition.  While you might find some success in doing it that way, it certainly isn't necessarily the only way to do it, and in fact might not even be the best way. 

[wylleEcoyote]

Best answer is still... It Depends on your Wingman.

The Point of flying together is to have a means to co-ordinate the actions of two planes to do things that you can not do with one plane. 

If the two of you go off in separate directions to each "do your own thing" you might as be flying alone.
neither of you can help each other when you need it.
and will die as you fly. 
alone.
all you did was muck about with the matchmaker because a tier X plane did not want to see tier X +1
So it is in a flight with a tier X-1 .

Those are filthy selfish statpadders. And no one likes them.


Ideally, you are in a flight with the same plane. each with similar equipment builds for speed vs handling. 
This is to make certain that you stay close enough to each other that you can support each other when you are being attacked. or attacking.

Spoiler

A turn built MiG-3 can Not keep up with a cruise built MiG-3 when moving from cap to cap. Thus the cruiser looses his primary advantage.
And when they finally get to the cap to fight the cruiser can not keep up with the stuff the Turner is pulling. costing the turner His primary advantage.

With that in mind there are some exceptions. Very specific combinations of planes can go together like Chocolate and Peanut butter
or for that matter ... Thunder(bolt) and Lightning (its very very frightening to me, Galileo)

Ideally both of you have flown together long enough to know what each other will do in various circumstances and play to favor each other. 
Both of you know your preferred targets when entering a zone and know whether to help out or work on separate projects depending on what planes you fly.
Barring that one of you decides to DO do that thing THey do and the other is all "I will just follow behind you shooting at anyone that takes an interest in you"
 

Spoiler

A flight of P-40's will combine fire and turnfight anything at high altitude before each one dives into the furball below to pick off the weak while the other is watching to see if anyone tries to follow the first and then dives on him.

A flight of Me 410's would rather each kill one of the two heavy ADA in a cap (plus anything else up high they can head on attack) then form up to shoot targets of opportunity (calling out targets as they go to avoid confusion) as they plow into and out of a furball of spitfires and yaks and zeros. with both of their tail gunners discouraging whatever thinks they have enough boost to try and follow 

As to killing things...some aircraft in particular are under gunned and the extra damage from the second man in the first pass is enough to make a kill.
this is a good way to grind assists and kills as needed in a timely manner.

Spoiler

because in any match where everyone is shooting at everyone else focus firing wins

Or it gives the flight lead time to make a turn while what is left of the target is still actively avoiding damage from the flight mate.
(two Fw 190's trying to engage one very agile and an-ger-y boi on his Spitfire for example...)
Works the same way in defense hostile on your six? lead spits right. mate splits left.  hostile can only chase one. and in the second or so it takes for hostile to deciding if to disengage/follow one of you and then which one that will be;  both of you are well into (or have already completed) your roll and are turning around to get him.

[White_Widow18]

CorvusCorvax, on 24 August 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

I didn't know my flighted win rate was a published stat.  Can you point out where that is located? 

 

In any case, your claim is not supported by any kind of data, so let's just call it a personal opinion.  I mean, it's interesting and all (like what plane is "better"), but doesn't become fact by ever-more-strident repetition.  While you might find some success in doing it that way, it certainly isn't necessarily the only way to do it, and in fact might not even be the best way. 

*laughs*

K.

Have fun with your.. whatever it is you got going on there Corvus. 

I've tried to be friendly about this and you're trying to cause a fight.

Editing to add: Oh and data.. if I take your claim of a 90% win rate when flighted at face value.. that means based on your win-rate over the last month and overall, that your solo win rate must be so low that you're basically bragging that you get carried when you're in a flight. Just saying.. when you make a mathematical claim... that you might want to actually look at the # of games you've played, your aggregate or monthly win-rate and consider that if you say "when I am flighted I win 90% of the time.. and my aggregate win-rate is under 60% and my monthly just over...." that it doesn't actually help your argument or reflect well on you?

Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 25 August 2019 - 01:03 AM.

[Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo]

lol u-2