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Best of the Best Tier 3 Multiroll


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Poll: Best of the Best Tier 3 Multiroll (14 members have cast votes)

Best Tier 3 Multiroll - Can choose more than 1

  1. F3F (8 votes [53.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.33%

  2. P-35 (3 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. I-16(e.) (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  4. Skua (1 vote [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  5. Kochyerigin-Yatsenko DI-6i (1 vote [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

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SpiritFoxMY #21 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:30 AM

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Rate of Roll is of more use in the attack as it allows you to more easily track a target while you're attacking. Defensively it makes dodging hit and run attacks a lot easier. In a brawl... Not so much

 

When I'm sizing up a pair of planes I look at five things - turn time, max speed, max dive speed, stall speed and optimum altitude. These four things above all else will determine your tactics vis a vis your opponent.

 

If there is more than a 1s difference between you and your opponent, it is safe to say that the turn difference is insurmountable and the inferior plane needs to break away and avoid a turn fight.

 

Choosing to break away depends on whether you can run horizontally or dive away. This might seem counterintuitive but some planes run better flat out than in a dive (the Hornet vs. Zwilling for example). So know how you're going to flee.

 

Sometimes though, a plane with inferior turn time can outmaneuver a plane with superior turn time because the inferior plane has a lower stall speed. This is "the power of slow" - aka the Po2 maneuver - Hit the brakes and watch your tormentor suddenly start wallowing across the sky like a drunken cow.

 

Lastly, compare max optimum altitudes as most planes quickly start to lose engine power and maneuverability once they're above their optimum altitude, especially once they're out of boost. Thus way you can just avoid having to tangle with a superior airplane by simply flying too high for him to get to you (aka Orbital Flight) 


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Mercsn #22 Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:29 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 02 August 2019 - 02:08 AM, said:

 

So you are probably the person to ask this. So I notice that the I-16e has a 190 degrees per second roll rate. But only does a 360 degree turn at 9.6 degrees a second. If I am going against a plane (Di-6i) that rolls only at 95 degrees a second but turns faster at 8.6 degrees a second turning how do I use my roll rate over his to my advantage? Do I simply try to roll more before my turn to throw him off? Will doing a roll first before the turn help me in any way other than delaying the inevitable outcome that he will simply out turn me anyway? As a non pilot that does not understand truly how a thatch weave will help me or what planes i need to do that maneuver in, how do I use these plane stats to my advantage? What am I looking for when looking at these plane states? Just the turn rate for a turn and burn plane? Or just the climb and boost rate for a boom and zoom? I am having a hard time trying to figure out what a plane is best at, or how to use it best, just from the detailed stats of what it can do. Any advice?

 

First, back up and slow down.  Roll rate is just that, how fast the plane will roll.  360 degree turn time is expressed in seconds, not degrees per second.  The time listed in the stats is the total optimal time required for the aircraft to turn through 360 degrees or complete a full circle (supposedly, I've not actually tested).

 

The Di-6i turns 360 degrees (a full circle) in 8.6 seconds.  The I-16 turns through 360 degrees in 9.6 seconds.  Unless you reduce the I-16's turn time through equipment or pilot skills, if the 2 aircraft pass each other and begin a turn fight at the same time, the I-16 will never win, regardless of what either aircraft's roll rate is.  The Di-6i will eventually get a firing position on the I-16 and stay there until the I-16 is dead, assuming equal pilot skill (and I mean both the ingame pilot/crew and the player). 

 

In the very early tiers, there is also some nuance about certain planes have flaps and their use might allow faster turning at lower speeds than a plane without flaps but with a similar optimal turn time.   In tier 2, the Ar-67 has flaps, most planes don't.

 

Then there's the fact that some planes have a sharper reaction to pitch up input, especially combined with boost or braking (W and S keys).  I used my Fi-98 "ground attack" plane to dogfight a tier 1 Type 91.  We faced off twice, head on passes into a turn fight.  I got him once. It shouldn't be possible.  But, the Fi-98 reacts almost violently to pitch up.  If this is correctly timed, it can help get the nose into a shooting position on the target, even though I cannot maintain that position for long.  This plane is just one example, there are some planes that will react more to pitch up, some that will react more to a yaw input and some that don't react more strongly to either.

 

Some planes will have a sharper reaction to rudder input combined with a maximum rate turn (I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug affecting interaction between yaw, pitch, and turn rate of some planes).  IIRC, the I-15 bis DM2 is a plane that will turn faster if you rock the rudder back and forth (Q and E keys, on my setup).  There are several planes that benefit from this, to varying degrees, and many that don't seem to at all.

 

So, despite what the stats may say about any aircraft, some will have better "nose pointing" ability or make it easier for you to get a snap shot on an otherwise more maneuverable opponent.

 

Regarding figuring out what planes are best at, there's 3 basic archetypes for fighters:

 

1)  Turn fighter:  labeled as "fighter" in game.  This will typically have a sub-9 second 360 turn time.  It will usually have a low altitude cap, but there are exceptions. Other stats vary.  Speed is usually more slow than fast.

 

2)  Boom and zoom fighter: labeled as "fighter" in game.   This will typically have a turn time over 10 seconds and a higher altitude cap, usually with a slightly longer boost time.  Speed is usually more fast than slow. 

 

3)  Middle of the road:  labeled as "multi-role" in game.  This will typically have a turn time over 12 seconds and a medium altitude cap.  Speed, like altitude cap is neither fast nor slow (usually), boost is slightly longer than boom and zoom fighters (usually). 

 

2b and 3b)  Heavy fighters fall into a little of category 2 and 3.  If you stay at speed and use them as you should, they are category 2.  If you slow down because you are going to overshoot a target or if you turn and bleed speed, they are more like category 3.

 

Multi-role is the least beginner friendly type because they don't excel at anything except getting you killed when you try to rocket or bomb something because you'll fly straight and make it easy for enemies to get on your tail.  Since you can't turn well, usually have poor acceleration, usually have an unimpressive top speed, and can't hide in the vertical, you simply can't shake or run away from an enemy once it gets behind you. 

 

SpiritFox pointed out useful ways to examine plane stats.  When I look at plane stats, I look at speed, 360 turn time, and altitude cap.  Remember, you can click the tabs.  The summary numbers are friggin meaningless when comparing aircraft. Click the tab and look at the actual values, if you aren't already doing that. 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

qu33kKC #23 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:34 PM

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nice vid, BB-3

 

as a thought, I probably would have gone after a red zone there at the end.  Your team was behind, and while defending a zone under pressure was a thing, it wasn't going to get you ahead. 

 

(not a criticism, just a comment.  Dogz only knows I've made the same mistake many a time.)



BB3_Oregon_Steel #24 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:10 PM

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View Postqu33kKC, on 02 August 2019 - 05:34 AM, said:

nice vid, BB-3

 

as a thought, I probably would have gone after a red zone there at the end.  Your team was behind, and while defending a zone under pressure was a thing, it wasn't going to get you ahead. 

 

(not a criticism, just a comment.  Dogz only knows I've made the same mistake many a time.)

 

Well in looking at that replay, I made a number of mistakes that didn't have much to do with how well the aircraft performed. 

 

1) I went for the first Garrison which I feel was the right move. 

2) Then, I made a noob mistake in going for the hard to capture and hold airfield rather than assisting with the capture of the 2nd Garrison and making sure we retained control of the first one. 

3) When fighting for the airfield, I had so many red planes swarming around me that I didn't note when the garrisons came under pressure.  I pretty much was fighting alone at the airbase for a lot of the time and while I did eventually clear the red planes out of the sky there, it took a LONG time for me to do it.  It would have been more profitable to extend and break way to support or recapture one of the garrisons rather than continue to mix it up in the furball at the airfield. 

4) At the end of the game, I selected to support the near Garrison which I think was the right thing to do rather than try and flip the other garrison.  The near garrison actually flipped to red just about the time I was arriving so I was in fact mostly attempting to flip and objective back to blue but I just ran out of time.  I'm not sure going for either the other garrison  or the far airfield would have yielded better results.   

 

Another note, I had not yet figured out the advantage flaps can give you in combat so I didn't use them.  Might have helped me getting my guns around faster than I was able to do it otherwise. 

 

But the BIG mistake was the airfield.  

 

And yes, as was pointed out, I am not the most polished flier but the post overall was about the P-35 and how effective it can be.  Even in the hands of a biplane noob girl, she still survived the entire battle without being shot down (and at times ridiculously outnumbered) and sent 15 red planes back to their MaMa's.  

 

I'm better than I was 4 months ago but I was kind of happy with that performance back then and the plane did perform like a monster (and hasn't stopped performing well since). 


"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


Booze_Morgan #25 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:53 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 01 August 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:


that's pretty lame

Feel better now?

 

Booze


Spoiler

 





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