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New to 2.0 - Objectives are Important - So is the heavy fighter and speed the key to winning?


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Sink_Stuff #1 Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:07 PM

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I often do 5-8k personal points per game. But obviously, I am not playing the game right for the win. How do you actually win this game?

 

As well, I am in a flight now with a buddy a lot and we still can't figure out what combinations of planes work best for the win.

 

I have seen a lot of other people use one bomber plane and one turn and burn fighter to take out defense aircraft.

 

What flight combinations work best of you?

 

and

 

How do you win this game?

 

Can a mod please move this to the appropriate section. Sorry i forgot what section i was in when i made this.


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 01 August 2019 - 07:54 PM.


NL_Celt #2 Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:27 PM

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Capturing and holding sectors, re-capturing ones taken from you. The different types have different values and functions. But how you do that best is another thing.

 

Check out some topics by Mercsn in his helpful tip of the day posts. There was one recently directly about capturing sectors. Also you'll see some useful links to videos and other posted topics that will be helpful. I suspect he'll reply to this topic amongst a host of other people. I'll defer to them.

 

Here's one discussion.  http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/56141-how-come-they-cap-we-dont/page__p__787630#entry787630

 

Another. http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/56131-helpful-tip-of-the-day/page__p__787468#entry787468

 

And another of use. http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/56227-helpful-tip-of-the-day-tactical-ditching/page__p__789152#entry789152

 

And if you go down through this thread you'll get some more info. http://forum.worldofwarplanes.com/index.php?/topic/56014-a-few-things/page__fromsearch__1


Edited by NL_Celt, 01 August 2019 - 07:42 PM.


CorvusCorvax #3 Posted 01 August 2019 - 09:24 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 01 August 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

I often do 5-8k personal points per game. But obviously, I am not playing the game right for the win. How do you actually win this game?

 

As well, I am in a flight now with a buddy a lot and we still can't figure out what combinations of planes work best for the win.

 

I have seen a lot of other people use one bomber plane and one turn and burn fighter to take out defense aircraft.

 

What flight combinations work best of you?

 

and

 

How do you win this game?

 

Can a mod please move this to the appropriate section. Sorry i forgot what section i was in when i made this.

I favor heavy fighters.  In fact, I favor GERMAN heavy fighters (but am known to play all the others).

 

The key to a win is this:  Flight up in your heavy fighter with a player who can bomber, and bomber well.  You cover that player's bomber.  NOTHING ELSE, unless that player releases you to do other work.  Your ONLY concern is keeping other planes off your flightmate's tail.

 

I fly in a clan that has a lot of bomber expertise.  When I fly as cover for my clan mates flying bombers, our win rate is above 90%.  If I had to take a guess, it's above 95%.  If all I ever did was cover bombers, I'm pretty sure I could bring my overall win rate above 70%.  It would take a year or more, but it would be possible, if I did nothing else. 

 

But where is the challenge in that???  :)



qu33kKC #4 Posted 01 August 2019 - 10:25 PM

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I would certainly say that speed HELPS towards winning, but I've seen many a game won by slow GAA and turn&burners on the right maps.  

 

major thing is capturing and holding bases.  There are lots of ways to do either, for lots of different planes.   See above links for details.  :B



losttwo #5 Posted 01 August 2019 - 10:55 PM

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K.I.S.S and it works for me. 

Capturing sectors by priority targeting 

Command Center, Military Base, Airfield, Garrison. 

Except for the map water map with only the Command center, airfield and garrison. 

 If you spawn south simply hold the airfield and garrison. Spawn North, Command center and garrison. 

Do not know about bombers. 

If you are in a GA then the Mining plant should be top priority. 

 

Also priority targeting should be ADA in the sectors. 

 

That is what works for me.


Edited by losttwo, 01 August 2019 - 10:56 PM.


mnbv_fockewulfe #6 Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:20 AM

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Near as I can tell, Personal Points is only a gauge of how much relevant damage you do in a battle.

Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


Sink_Stuff #7 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:19 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 01 August 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

K.I.S.S and it works for me. 

Capturing sectors by priority targeting 

Command Center, Military Base, Airfield, Garrison. 

Except for the map water map with only the Command center, airfield and garrison. 

 If you spawn south simply hold the airfield and garrison. Spawn North, Command center and garrison. 

Do not know about bombers. 

If you are in a GA then the Mining plant should be top priority. 

 

Also priority targeting should be ADA in the sectors. 

 

That is what works for me.

 

Thank you all very much. I have sent your replies to the people who are in flights with me now. They are mostly WOWS and WOT players. But like me they are playing this game now on occasion. What strange is that the info on this current battle mode (the only battle mode really) is so hit or miss. Without you folks a player is really completely in the dark about how to win matches in this mode. You think you are doing good, but you lose anyway. You are top of your losing team and you shot down 9 planes but apparently it doesn't mean a thing. Then, I tell my clan mate and from WOWS "Hey give me a few days to figure it out in WOWP and I'll show you what I learned over the weekend."

 

Well it's been a week now and I have so much info that I need to practice just to understand better all of what I read and the videos that i watched. "Shoot things down and blow things up and win" - Yeah, that's only scratching the surface to winning. What you shoot, when you shoot it, blowing up the right thing, at the right time apparently is critical to the win. Oh and lets not forget the critical aspect of dying at the right time and in the right place for the win. Yeah, like a new player is going to think that's cool. Since when did losing the battle win you the war? Oh yeah, in WOWP, that's when.

 

This current battle mode goes against all previous WOWP logic. As well, you are setup to fail completely if you go the wrong way to defend or attack the wrong target. It seems that this current game mode really only works correctly when a lot of players are in the game instead of a lot of bots. The capps are flipping in seconds. You cap one, move on to the next, and the one you just capped gets flipped again before you are even at the next cap point. Obviously I have a lot more to learn and practice with this game mode and it is certainly not intuitive or in keeping with standard game logic. Oh I have to die right now to get a new plane before the storm. And hey, while I'm at it, I'll switch my spawn point to even pick a different plane to go shoot down the bombers that are incoming. Show me what new player is going to think along those lines? Yeah, maybe after 4000 battles of failing first. It's no wonder 2.0 isn't bringing tons of people back to the game. 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 02 August 2019 - 04:21 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #8 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:23 AM

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The basic game mode is fairly intuitive IMO - you win by capturing sectors and holding more of them longer than the enemy. Its the nuances that are challenging 

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HoujuuNue #9 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:43 AM

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In general, double heavy fighters. In period 3, double bomber cancer in maps with special sectors.

Sink_Stuff #10 Posted 02 August 2019 - 04:55 AM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 August 2019 - 04:23 AM, said:

The basic game mode is fairly intuitive IMO - you win by capturing sectors and holding more of them longer than the enemy. Its the nuances that are challenging 

 

Its not intuitive at all. Not in my view. Perhaps when I learn more it will seem that way. I think you just have such a different view of things now that I don't think you can see the game anymore as a new player would. I think you and other long time players may simply be institutionalized to this way of play. Let me explain why I feel this game is not intuitive at all.

 

1. This is a plane game. Intuition tells you that shooting down planes should win you the game. But no. Instead, this is a land grab game. They might as well call it land control 2.0. You can shoot down all the planes you want and you will lose more often then not because it matters what you shoot down and when. If that bot leaves the cap area, like almost all of them seem programmed to do, and you shoot it down out of the cap then you don't get the points. Instead, you actually did nothing, nothing but waste your time shooting it down at all. That is counter-intuitive.

 

2. You shoot down all the planes but you don't get the cap. That alone is counter-intuitive. A new player is left asking themselves "Why isn't it working?" Well that player shot two bots who ran away so those points didn't count. And now you have to make up the difference by shooting down a few ground targets. Oh but, i'm in a fighter plane, it's not really meant to shoot hardened ground targets? Yeah, one more counter-intuitive play. 

 

3. Me and my buddy are in a cap, shooting ground targets, shooting down planes, one after the other. Slowly the cap is turning. But oh wait, 2 enemy bomber planes are 1500 ft above us and the cap flips from thier bombs back to them before we can finish off enough planes and ground targets between the both of us to flip the cap. Another counter-intuitive action. So two of us shooting down planes and shooting at ground targets isn't enough against bombers. So whats the point of even trying to play a fighter if a bomber is going to flip the cap while you are fighting in it? If me and my buddy are both alive inside the cap, how is it flipping to the other side? More counter-intuitive play.

 

4. Well my plane is all shot to crap and its 30 seconds before the storm is coming. But I haven't died yet and I shot down 5 planes, surely there must be some reward right? No, I need to crash my plane into the ground outside a cap zone to get a new plane. Very counter-intuitive. Dying for the win. Yeah, WOT doesn't have this, and neither does WOWS. Apparently Patton was wrong. Dying for your team is winning the war. At least in WOWP it is.

 

Spirit i appreciate every single post you have made. I have shared that info with others and I value every single bit of advice that you and the other experienced players have told me. I bought all the planes you said were great that i could afford and i love the Ar 67 that you recommended. I got 15 kills in it i think my first battle in it. I didn't even realize how important flaps were until you mentioned that it was the reason to get this plane. But this past week playing with my buddy in WOWP has been very frustrating and counter-intuitive for both of us. We are at the top of the losing team all the time and are just left stunned as to why. We busted our butts doing what we thought was the right thing to do every game. Obviously we did the wrong things. It's absolutely frustrating for us to bust our butts getting 8-10 K personal points and losing way more often then we think we should have for the work that we did. 

 

I know that one day with more of your advice and the advice of others I will "Get it". And when I do I will help my friends to "Get it" too. But the road seems very long to me right now and filled with bad information or misinformation. I can't thank you and the other players enough for all the help you have given me. But if other returning or new players feel what me and my buddy felt this past week then no, this game is never going to get a lot more players. 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 02 August 2019 - 05:01 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 02 August 2019 - 05:49 AM

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Sorry if I seemed flippant but that was my experience jumping into this game - I figured out the air capture part in the first match and I had a basic idea of how to force win by the third match - and that was coming in cold within a week of 2.0. There were only three things I really struggled to understand:

 

1. Ground targets: there's a whole guide on this in the guides forum but the basic thing was that I never realized that there was a difference between ground targets and buildings. You had to kill all the buildings in a group to actually get a ground target kill. I didn't know that and needed it explained to me along with the difference between hard and soft targets

 

2. Altitude bands. I theoretically understood that planes had a maximum optimal altitude but it took time to understand the implications. 

 

3. Personal Points and Aircraft Grades. In a way, starting out without any conceptions helped as I focused on the capping game first before worrying about points and chevrons and I was very slow to the PP train. As far as I knew as a completely green player was that I had to kill planes over caps to flip them and the more I flipped the better.

 

Maybe I was just a faster study or maybe the game was genuinely simpler and less complex in vanilla 2.0 but my personal experience was very straightforward all the way until tier 5 when I started taking an interest in the nitty gritty of the different planes that things got considerably more complicated 


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wylleEcoyote #12 Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:18 AM

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What combo's work best for me?
As long as i can match the plane with my wing man and we have good comms and stick together and cover each other we will do well in any pair of planes. Having a wing man to help with focusing down priority targets or getting that angery fighter off your six is ALWAYS valuable. No matter what you fly or how you fly it.

How to win?

For myself i do prefer heavies.  Be cause winning comes from capping harder/faster/moar than the red team. 
Capping comes from shooting down enemy airplanes.

Heavies have the speed to get to caps faster and the guns to kill enemies quicker than anything else.
Spoiler


Multi Roles are second best at any of the particular things the other classes need to do to win a game.
Multi Roles the absolute best at being able to do ALL of the particular things that must be done to win a game.
 
Spoiler

Light fighters are a completely different set of animals. they are usually slower to the fight but ideal for holding a particular zone against other classes with the word fighter in them.
Spoiler




 

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3, Me209v4, Me209 A, I-17
Multi-Roles: F11C-2, F4F, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Tu-1, Bf 110 C-6, SE 100, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 Japan: not even once.


pyantoryng #13 Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:11 AM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 02 August 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

 

Its not intuitive at all. Not in my view. Perhaps when I learn more it will seem that way. I think you just have such a different view of things now that I don't think you can see the game anymore as a new player would. I think you and other long time players may simply be institutionalized to this way of play. Let me explain why I feel this game is not intuitive at all.

 

1. This is a plane game. Intuition tells you that shooting down planes should win you the game. But no. Instead, this is a land grab game. They might as well call it land control 2.0. You can shoot down all the planes you want and you will lose more often then not because it matters what you shoot down and when. If that bot leaves the cap area, like almost all of them seem programmed to do, and you shoot it down out of the cap then you don't get the points. Instead, you actually did nothing, nothing but waste your time shooting it down at all. That is counter-intuitive.

This mode was made in response to the old WoWP where you have only one life with low expectancy to go with it, to give players a chance to influence the battle during the majority of the match...but to some it might as well be getting killed put on repeat...and the intricacies defeats every attempt at simplication.

 

2. You shoot down all the planes but you don't get the cap. That alone is counter-intuitive. A new player is left asking themselves "Why isn't it working?" Well that player shot two bots who ran away so those points didn't count. And now you have to make up the difference by shooting down a few ground targets. Oh but, i'm in a fighter plane, it's not really meant to shoot hardened ground targets? Yeah, one more counter-intuitive play. 

Okay, this really is where there is almost no documentations about what things to do to influence sector capture, only through observation one can find out most of the time...and being observative on the fly (pun intended) is hard.

 

3. Me and my buddy are in a cap, shooting ground targets, shooting down planes, one after the other. Slowly the cap is turning. But oh wait, 2 enemy bomber planes are 1500 ft above us and the cap flips from thier bombs back to them before we can finish off enough planes and ground targets between the both of us to flip the cap. Another counter-intuitive action. So two of us shooting down planes and shooting at ground targets isn't enough against bombers. So whats the point of even trying to play a fighter if a bomber is going to flip the cap while you are fighting in it? If me and my buddy are both alive inside the cap, how is it flipping to the other side? More counter-intuitive play.

As fighters in sectors with low amount of plane traffic (i.e. Military Bases and Plants) it's more of denial than attempting to capture...or you can just shoot the bombers off if you can reach them. Everything else is race to down as many planes as you possibly can while avoiding casualties on your side. The bombers and/or GAAs throw a spanner into that. This only applies while sectors are white though, because there's no use for bombers or GAA to be defending outside of some very specific circumstances nor do they are bombing their own sectors.

 

4. Well my plane is all shot to crap and its 30 seconds before the storm is coming. But I haven't died yet and I shot down 5 planes, surely there must be some reward right? No, I need to crash my plane into the ground outside a cap zone to get a new plane. Very counter-intuitive. Dying for the win. Yeah, WOT doesn't have this, and neither does WOWS. Apparently Patton was wrong. Dying for your team is winning the war. At least in WOWP it is.

You do have the incentive to live through the battle for the elusive epic achievements and the tokens they entail (doesn't apply to tier 3 and lower)...meanwhile the incentive to die to get even more EXP out of the match is there, albeit invisible. Come to think of it, both are more or less invisible. It works this way because neither WoT nor WoWS got respawn, and even in Ships repair can only get you so far. Also, sometimes you have the chance to repair yourself to full via an airbase, but the decision to repair in itself can turn out to be one of dilemma.

 

Spirit i appreciate every single post you have made. I have shared that info with others and I value every single bit of advice that you and the other experienced players have told me. I bought all the planes you said were great that i could afford and i love the Ar 67 that you recommended. I got 15 kills in it i think my first battle in it. I didn't even realize how important flaps were until you mentioned that it was the reason to get this plane. But this past week playing with my buddy in WOWP has been very frustrating and counter-intuitive for both of us. We are at the top of the losing team all the time and are just left stunned as to why. We busted our butts doing what we thought was the right thing to do every game. Obviously we did the wrong things. It's absolutely frustrating for us to bust our butts getting 8-10 K personal points and losing way more often then we think we should have for the work that we did. 

 

I know that one day with more of your advice and the advice of others I will "Get it". And when I do I will help my friends to "Get it" too. But the road seems very long to me right now and filled with bad information or misinformation. I can't thank you and the other players enough for all the help you have given me. But if other returning or new players feel what me and my buddy felt this past week then no, this game is never going to get a lot more players. 

 

There used to be a semblance of tutorial...2.0 offers no tutorials at all outside of dubious videos. Any information there is can only be obtained through obscure tooltips and the brief tutorial messages you get in your very first sortie...the rest is observation (especially how repair pads work, hardly anybody seem to have ever figured it out and keep fighting in their tattered planes in the middle of an intact airbase)

 

Although I picked it up quickly during the open test before it launched...it just doesn't apply to everyone.



WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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qu33kKC #14 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:18 PM

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'yote, that is a most EXCELLENT post.  *upvotes*  :honoring:

Sink_Stuff #15 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:25 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 02 August 2019 - 08:18 AM, said:

What combo's work best for me?
As long as i can match the plane with my wing man and we have good comms and stick together and cover each other we will do well in any pair of planes. Having a wing man to help with focusing down priority targets or getting that angery fighter off your six is ALWAYS valuable. No matter what you fly or how you fly it.

How to win?

For myself i do prefer heavies.  Be cause winning comes from capping harder/faster/moar than the red team. 
Capping comes from shooting down enemy airplanes.

Heavies have the speed to get to caps faster and the guns to kill enemies quicker than anything else.
Spoiler


Multi Roles are second best at any of the particular things the other classes need to do to win a game.
Multi Roles the absolute best at being able to do ALL of the particular things that must be done to win a game.
 
Spoiler

Light fighters are a completely different set of animals. they are usually slower to the fight but ideal for holding a particular zone against other classes with the word fighter in them.
Spoiler




 

Thank you very much. I have read this more than once and will send this info along to the other folks that I know. Man you guys have been extremely helpful to me these past few days. Thank you again. And of course thank you to Spirit again for his advice and the advice of everyone here. 


Edited by Sink_Stuff, 02 August 2019 - 01:26 PM.


CorvusCorvax #16 Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:38 PM

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One of the things I forget, even after all this time, is to relax and watch the flow of the battle.  Once you can do that, you will notice the small details that really make a difference.

 



losttwo #17 Posted 02 August 2019 - 09:39 PM

    which way do we go?

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 02 August 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:

One of the things I forget, even after all this time, is to relax and watch the flow of the battle.  Once you can do that, you will notice the small details that really make a difference.

 


yeah like going into a sector solo when there are 6 enemy planes ( not ADA ) 



CorvusCorvax #18 Posted 03 August 2019 - 03:45 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 02 August 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:


yeah like going into a sector solo when there are 6 enemy planes ( not ADA ) 


Yeah, don't do that.

 

And pay attention to when your own potato bots are getting killed in the sector you're trying to take.  I can't tell you how many sectors I've gone into with four bots, only to lose because the ADA or red bots take about two seconds to shoot down my potatoes while I am desperately trying to save all of their butts all at the same time.  Then, I'm all alone, in a flipped cap, with three bots, and now, red ADA.

 

Sigh.



trikke #19 Posted 03 August 2019 - 08:16 PM

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View PostSink_Stuff, on 02 August 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

 And of course thank you to Spirit again for his advice and the advice of everyone here. 


I've had the great fortune of him sharing his insights over the last year and a half, but my skills have plateaued long ago  


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore




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