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Bailing on a Battle - To bail or not to bail, that is the question


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Stygian_Alchemist #41 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:47 PM

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I see a lot of anecdotal appeals to authority and personal moralizing with no actual evidence that A) this is a problem or B) that the option should be removed.

I never thought I'd say this, but the only person with sense about this is Corvus. 

 

Oh.. And anecdotally, I've heard that the biggest reason people quit is crash bugs, the non stop negative argumentation in the forums, and the disparity in stats caused by seal clubbers. The latter seems to be the primary reason even in Glenn's attempt to back his point that people quit. 

 

That's not a convenient narrative for all the experienced players flying Lower tiers and bragging about it though. 

 

P.S. I'd like to point out that I have been playing to roughly 9 months. That makes me still a "new player" by most definitions. I'm certainly no veteran with -less than a year- playing this game. I joined when the American Bombers were first coming out, really. The -three- biggest things that made me almost quit?

#1 - Seal Clubbers; What kind of a low functioning tiny ego needs to keep playing low tiers indefinitely? That's like taking a level 19 twink PvP character into Elwynn Forest on World of WarCraft to grief lowbies. Funny for you -maybe- and still a complete jerk move. Other than daily quests (ain't that a misnomer), if I see you at T2 you're nothing but a griefing seal clubber if you're an experienced member of the community.

#2 - Power disparity between planes. I've learned to overcome that, but if I am being honest.. the difference between a stock T5 (not even elite) and a specialist T6 is so overwhelming as to make it bloody ridiculous to try to grind through and quite disheartening.

#3 - People spamming the chat with stuff that your mothers would wash your mouths out and tell you to find jesus for saying.



P.P.S. I wanted to -again- mention Corvus. This time to thank him. Thank you Corvus, your response is the only -fully- appropriate one.


Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 21 July 2019 - 07:00 PM.


trikke #42 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:53 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 20 July 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

Other than that, dropping due to game, computer, or other technical issues that prevent you from actually playing is also perfectly acceptable.  Stuff happens.


I'd like to add 'wife unexpectedly comes home when I was supposed to be cleaning the deck'


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trikke #43 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:58 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 21 July 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

It's a long-running problem since 2.0 hits - you can no longer lawndart your way out of battles anymore until 7 minutes elapse so the only option remaining is to outright quit...

 

pyan...   missed ya, brother!      Something happened yesterday that made me realize you were MIA


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GeorgePatton #44 Posted 21 July 2019 - 07:01 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 21 July 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

Oh.. And anecdotally, I've heard that the biggest reason people quit is crash bugs, the non stop negative argumentation in the forums, and the disparity in stats caused by seal clubbers. The latter seems to be the primary reason even in Glenn's attempt to back his point that people quit. 

 

It all combines to make a negative experience for newer players - each piece of that puzzle needs to be dealt with IMO. I don't think we can say "Oh, there are these issues so this isn't really a problem." I believe that as we continue to make progress in cleaning up each of the mentioned areas in and around the game we'll start to see the playerbase grow at a more healthy rate.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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Stygian_Alchemist #45 Posted 21 July 2019 - 07:08 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 21 July 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

It all combines to make a negative experience for newer players - each piece of that puzzle needs to be dealt with IMO. I don't think we can say "Oh, there are these issues so this isn't really a problem." I believe that as we continue to make progress in cleaning up each of the mentioned areas in and around the game we'll start to see the playerbase grow at a more healthy rate.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

I think you used an anecdote that ultimately demonstrated my point while you tried to demonstrate yours. *shrug*

They didn't quit when the person on their team quit even in your example. They quit when they saw the high powered specialist.

Again, the only -100%- appropriate response in this thread or about this subject has really been Corvus as far as I can tell.

Most everyone else is trying to shove their personal morals onto it and ignoring the reality of the situation as to why people usually quit matches. Are there bad faith actors? Sure! Every bomber pilot remembers a -particular- bomber pilot who used to abuse the return to hangar button for event grinding. THAT -IS- a violation of the rules. Show that the person is being abusive with return to hangar in some manner and WG will take that quite seriously.. If you're sitting here complaining because someone won't sit through a 10 minute diatribe of antisemitism or other toxicity scrolling across their screen (because ignore list doesn't really work in game.. about half the time is a good rate), have something come up in their home, suddenly need to bio-break, or other... then I have to really question how much -good faith- you're putting toward the community yourself and how much you're just looking for something to police and feel like "YEA! I PUNISHED THE BAD GUY!"


Editing to add: Now, I'm going to go play the game. I feel the need to blow planes out of the sky.


Edited by Stygian_Alchemist, 21 July 2019 - 07:13 PM.


GeorgePatton #46 Posted 21 July 2019 - 07:47 PM

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I can agree with that!

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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Stygian_Alchemist #47 Posted 21 July 2019 - 08:35 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 21 July 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

I can agree with that!

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

Thank you btw, for not taking the shrug as a negative. IRL I had this wry twisted face and the shrug was kinda helpless and apologetic for the feeling.

I realized re-reading that that could have been taken very negatively and set a very bad tone for the rest of the post so I appreciate you giving the benefit of the doubt quite a lot.

o7



pyantoryng #48 Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:03 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 22 July 2019 - 01:58 AM, said:

 

pyan...   missed ya, brother!      Something happened yesterday that made me realize you were MIA

 

Just being away from the forums and it seems like it's a bit more habitable so I came back...that and I'm pushing on Asia with the weekly red box prem time I pop there...but the starting anew experience can not be reproduced easily when you are experienced in handling planes.

 

...here in Planes, a player that prematurely quit may take away one bot from the opposition. Never quite figured how it exactly works, but it happens.

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #49 Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:24 PM

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View Postpyantoryng, on 21 July 2019 - 05:03 PM, said:

 

 

Just being away from the forums and it seems like it's a bit more habitable so I came back...that and I'm pushing on Asia with the weekly red box prem time I pop there...but the starting anew experience can not be reproduced easily when you are experienced in handling planes.

 

...here in Planes, a player that prematurely quit may take away one bot from the opposition. Never quite figured how it exactly works, but it happens.

:honoring:
yo PanTor

glad to have you back... we missed you


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #50 Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:51 PM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 21 July 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

Thank you btw, for not taking the shrug as a negative. IRL I had this wry twisted face and the shrug was kinda helpless and apologetic for the feeling.

I realized re-reading that that could have been taken very negatively and set a very bad tone for the rest of the post so I appreciate you giving the benefit of the doubt quite a lot.

o7


:rolleyes:


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


Captain_Underpants53 #51 Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:32 AM

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Curses!  Another ear worm to haunt my waking moments.  Must....have.....more.....beers!

 

:playing:


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trikke #52 Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:39 AM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 21 July 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thank you btw, for not taking the shrug as a negative. IRL I had this wry twisted face and the shrug was kinda helpless and apologetic for the feeling.
I realized re-reading that that could have been taken very negatively and set a very bad tone for the rest of the post so I appreciate you giving the benefit of the doubt quite a lot.

 
great posts, everyone.      love seeing that civility in action that we're famous for


outta plus1s, sry


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Captain_Underpants53 #53 Posted 22 July 2019 - 02:23 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 21 July 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

 
great posts, everyone.      love seeing that civility in action that we're famous for


outta plus1s, sry


FIFY

 

:medal:   :medal:


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BB3_Oregon_Steel #54 Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:52 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 21 July 2019 - 11:01 AM, said:

 

It all combines to make a negative experience for newer players - each piece of that puzzle needs to be dealt with IMO. I don't think we can say "Oh, there are these issues so this isn't really a problem." I believe that as we continue to make progress in cleaning up each of the mentioned areas in and around the game we'll start to see the playerbase grow at a more healthy rate.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

^^^^  So very much this. 

 

Yes, there are other negative issues with the game and yes, the game crashing and non-functional issues certainly create a very negative environment which tend to dominate other factors. 

 

This does not, however, indicate that things like team killing and bailing on games are not also negative factors, they are simply factors that magnify and expand on the negative factors you mention. 

 

And it's not anecdotal evidence, WG has dealt with this issues in their other titles because statistical data showed that AFK's and TK's were causing problems for the players and that they were leaking players as a result.  I do not have that data but am aware the WG does. If it's bad for ships and it's bad for tanks, it stretches the boundaries of logic to believe it's not an issue for planes as well.  It just, at the moment, is an issue that is overshadowed by other issues that WG needs to take care of in the game. 


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 22 July 2019 - 11:21 PM.

"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


GDZmike #55 Posted 22 July 2019 - 06:07 PM

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I Don't quit out but to each his own.

CorvusCorvax #56 Posted 23 July 2019 - 08:15 PM

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I saw first hand today what quitting does.

 

I was working my stock F2H to make it more betterer.  Those stock guns aren't the best, and the stock engine means the plane is not completely slow, but dang.  So, I run up on another person with a F2H.  His plane is obviously better than mine, because he has rockets on, and he is as fast as I am, and turns about the same.  Plus he has the better guns.  I play three separate battles, and he's on the other side every time.  He also seems to draw the better-playing team mate (thanks, WG MM!) each time.  So, after the third close loss, I am a little tired of the F2H, so I think "what the heck, might as well go out and get me a comfort flight, and see how he does against my P.1092."  Jump in battle, and there he is again, in his F2H.  I roam around, killing planes and capping, and haven't seen him but once, off in the distance.  So, I look at the rosters, and there he is, at the bottom, grayed out with 335 points.  Oh?  OK.

 

Now, if he dropped because of Real Life, or whatever, then it was a shame for his team mate, because that guy had his hands completely full.  He did a great job, but he was out-matched and really didn't have much of a chance, except after the squall line, the blue bots decided to all go get themselves killed.  The red team had a shot at wiping the skies clean, if they would have had two humans.  My team mate and I were fighting for our lives just staying out of the range of hungry MRF.

If Mr. F2H bailed on purpose, he hung his guy out to dry.  I hope it was something other than a drop to hangar.  I enjoyed the fights, even in the losses.



Captain_Underpants53 #57 Posted 23 July 2019 - 11:34 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 23 July 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

I saw first hand today what quitting does.

 

I was working my stock F2H to make it more betterer.  Those stock guns aren't the best, and the stock engine means the plane is not completely slow, but dang.  So, I run up on another person with a F2H.  His plane is obviously better than mine, because he has rockets on, and he is as fast as I am, and turns about the same.  Plus he has the better guns.  I play three separate battles, and he's on the other side every time.  He also seems to draw the better-playing team mate (thanks, WG MM!) each time.  So, after the third close loss, I am a little tired of the F2H, so I think "what the heck, might as well go out and get me a comfort flight, and see how he does against my P.1092."  Jump in battle, and there he is again, in his F2H.  I roam around, killing planes and capping, and haven't seen him but once, off in the distance.  So, I look at the rosters, and there he is, at the bottom, grayed out with 335 points.  Oh?  OK.

 

Now, if he dropped because of Real Life, or whatever, then it was a shame for his team mate, because that guy had his hands completely full.  He did a great job, but he was out-matched and really didn't have much of a chance, except after the squall line, the blue bots decided to all go get themselves killed.  The red team had a shot at wiping the skies clean, if they would have had two humans.  My team mate and I were fighting for our lives just staying out of the range of hungry MRF.

If Mr. F2H bailed on purpose, he hung his guy out to dry.  I hope it was something other than a drop to hangar.  I enjoyed the fights, even in the losses.


Your F2H didn't have much trouble with my bomber today!   :great:


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CorvusCorvax #58 Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:33 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 23 July 2019 - 11:34 PM, said:


Your F2H didn't have much trouble with my bomber today!   :great:


I did not fail to notice that your side won.  ;)



Jenko1957 #59 Posted 10 August 2019 - 01:14 PM

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Leaving a game because you don't like the odds just seems petty and unproductive to me. Yes, it can be frustrating when your team is clearly outclassed. On the other hand, sometimes that's when I do my best flying. If my team mates are MIA and I find myself surrounded by a sea of red I just think of that as a target rich environment and go nuts trying to take as many of them with me when the inevitable happens.

So....no, don't bail, your team mates may suck but at least they're human and we need as many of those as we can get in this game.






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