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Bailing on a Battle - To bail or not to bail, that is the question


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qu33kKC #21 Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:53 PM

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BB-3, upvoted, and 110% agreement on your OP.

 

 



Dc2mitchell #22 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:28 PM

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I have never bailed on a match until recently.  In this particular case, there were extenuating circumstances in which I feel it was better for all parties involved and they know who they are.    Regardless, even if I know with absolution that I'm about to be spanked, I usually take that spanking and try to get a couple licks in myself.  I wouldn't frown upon it if people on my team do it to me, but it would be disappointing.

 

To each their own.



Dru83 #23 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:42 PM

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I'm not the kind of guy to leave a fight with anything other than going down in flames with my guns blazing. I will never leave simply because I'm dissatisfied with the matchup or with the way the game is going. But, I have left for game/comp crashes and I have left to deal with real-world issues occasionally. Sometimes when the game has disconnected 2 times in a row on the same match, I just don't feel like trying to reload the game again, you know?

crzyhawk #24 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 20 July 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

 

Actually, just for your information, where wg has implemented a penalty system for bailing on the game, it doesn't have anything to do with how well or poorly you play the game.  In WOWS they can track if you leave a battle before your ship is sunk.  A penalty is automatically applied and repeat offenders with escalating penalties if the behavior continues.  If they actually implemented something like that here, what you're suggesting wouldn't matter, you'd still get penalized.  They also have an effective system for identifying team killers which works in a similar fashion.  

 

Neither system is perfect and there are some limited ways around them, but they have reduced the incidence of people bailing from games and team killing to negligible amounts.  What use to happen every third or fourth game you entered now happens maybe a few times a year.  I honestly can't remember the last time I ran into an honest to god team killer in ships and afk's are pretty rare now too.  

 

So yes, WG can do it because they have done it effectively, it's just a matter of whether they choose to do it here or not.  If it becomes too great of a problem such that it actively hurts their revenue stream, you'll see them take actions like I've described above.


The real question is why would they want to implement some kind of penalty for this, which likely includes a ban at some point...to an already tiny playerbase.  Can it be done?  Absolutely.  Should it be done?  Why shoot themselves in the foot?  Banning players for bailing on a game isn't going to get more players into the game.


Edited by crzyhawk, 20 July 2019 - 02:57 PM.

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SkyWolf__WM #25 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:01 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 20 July 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:


The real question is why would they want to implement some kind of penalty for this, which likely includes a ban at some point...to an already tiny playerbase.  Can it be done?  Absolutely.  Should it be done?  Why shoot themselves in the foot?  Banning players for bailing on a game isn't going to get more players into the game.

 

I never bail. Bailing is a git thing to do to your team. I'd rather lose than have other players think that I am a loser flake.  :izmena:


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GeorgePatton #26 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:56 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 20 July 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:


The real question is why would they want to implement some kind of penalty for this, which likely includes a ban at some point...to an already tiny playerbase.  Can it be done?  Absolutely.  Should it be done?  Why shoot themselves in the foot?  Banning players for bailing on a game isn't going to get more players into the game.


The reason is actually quite simple - the smaller your userbase is, the more important it is to only have quality users. Think of it this way - if you have two players and one always leaves, you're going to lose the guy that doesn't leave. Now you're down to one player - the guy who likes to leave.

 

The larger your playerbase, the less of an issue this becomes as it's much less likely that each individual player will see the 'quitter' each match. In order to ensure that people don't get frustrated by their team leaving (especially for new players this is frustrating as they don't know the game and how to 'carry' yet...) WG needs to deal with the rotten apples. It's better to have one less player than lose a few players because of frustration out of that one player leaving matches or team killing or whatever.

 

 

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Captain_Rownd #27 Posted 20 July 2019 - 08:07 PM

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quitters are losers, in many ways

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trikke #28 Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:15 PM

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I'm too cheap to quit.      Usually I need that 1000 PP to pull my score from dismal to somewhat acceptable
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SkyWolf__WM #29 Posted 20 July 2019 - 10:28 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 20 July 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I'm too cheap to quit.      Usually I need that 1000 PP to pull my score from dismal to somewhat acceptable

You are too modest. You have failed to suck

:honoring:


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CorvusCorvax #30 Posted 20 July 2019 - 11:55 PM

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My take is the same as it has been, always.

 

1.)  When you press the battle button, you are committing to doing your best to either accomplish your personal goals (grinding, escorting, carrying, whatever) or be the best team mate you can be.  Pressing the return to hangar button you should really only do if there is active griefing, or very abusive or offensive chat.  I have seen some utterly despicable stuff written in the chat line, and I can see why people would not want to put up with that.

 

2.)  Real life happens.  If it does, then stepping away during a battle is fine.

 

3.)  After the squall line hits and you get shot down.  If you don't care about the 1k PP, then leaving at that point is fine.

 

Other than that, dropping due to game, computer, or other technical issues that prevent you from actually playing is also perfectly acceptable.  Stuff happens.

 

Otherwise, just play the battle, and try to have fun, win or lose.



GeorgePatton #31 Posted 20 July 2019 - 11:57 PM

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Well said, Corvus! +1

 

 

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crzyhawk #32 Posted 21 July 2019 - 01:31 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 20 July 2019 - 12:56 PM, said:


The reason is actually quite simple - the smaller your userbase is, the more important it is to only have quality users. Think of it this way - if you have two players and one always leaves, you're going to lose the guy that doesn't leave. Now you're down to one player - the guy who likes to leave.

 

The larger your playerbase, the less of an issue this becomes as it's much less likely that each individual player will see the 'quitter' each match. In order to ensure that people don't get frustrated by their team leaving (especially for new players this is frustrating as they don't know the game and how to 'carry' yet...) WG needs to deal with the rotten apples. It's better to have one less player than lose a few players because of frustration out of that one player leaving matches or team killing or whatever.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


Quitters don't really ruin the match though, so you're eliminating numbers and replacing with...a bot in every match that player would have stuck around for.


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USA: XP31; F11C-2; YP29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; XFL; XF4U-1; P39N; P-47B; F4U-1,-4ROC: Hawk II; Ki43c; Tomahawk IIb; P51K |

UK: Goldfinch; Type 224; Wirraway; Hurricane I; Boomerang; Venom; Spitfire I, Ia, XIV; Tornado; Mustang Ia; Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki61 |

Germany: FW56; AR67; BF109B, E-3, G; Spitfire V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3(4); P40 M-105 |  EU: B534; S199


wylleEcoyote #33 Posted 21 July 2019 - 12:41 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 19 July 2019 - 08:15 PM, said:

You can still shoot at AFK airplanes. I do. There was this one guy on the enemy team who never loaded into the game and his Corsair kept flying straight over the center missile base. Needless to say, the enemy team never captured the missile base.

 

But, yeah, I consider rage-quitters to be... just bad. Unless you're being actively teamkilled, there's just no justification for loading in, playing for a bit then just peacing out because you didn't like the MM or something. It makes it that much harder for the rest of the team to fight back and honestly, you're not learning anything if all you do is quit at the first sign of trouble. I hate losing as much as anyone else here but quitting just means you lose AND you show yourself up as a bad sport AND a player who has no interest in actually putting any effort into the game.

 

I don't quit unless my game has something else to say (I've CTD a few times). Even against the odds I don't quit. It means I have a chance to learn from my mistakes, to observe the tactics of a dominant team and a small but tantalizing opportunity for a come from behind victory which is sometimes made even sweeter by ragequitters on my team since I like to imagine I'd just wasted their x3 daily.



THIS

Ive been CTD'd. I have just AFK'd in the middle of a match because of household emergencies. And i feel bad about it every time.
So when it happens to someone on my team and their name stays greyed out on the battle map I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. While i redouble my efforts.
And when it happens to an enemy its free target practice so no skin off my back

But what i DONT do is take a look at the line up and map layout and decide it wasn't worth hitting the battle button. for me. And go to a different plane.

And I absolutely dont want you to decide to share this [edited]decision making with me in a "this map layout again? its not worth the points to me. sorry guys im out" in chat.

Spoiler



I've only had that happen once (that i know of) and screw that [edited]  (and all the others that do this and dont bother telling me) because I won anyway

(Why am I still salty about it? I dont know I just am! Something about that blatant fukery just triggers my "Vile Betrayal" responses.    ) .


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 21 July 2019 - 12:42 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:   XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3 / F, Me 209 v4 / A, Me P.1092, I-17
Multi-Roles: Type 91, F11C-2, F4F, P-26, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Beaufighter,  Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


losttwo #34 Posted 21 July 2019 - 02:21 PM

    which way do we go?

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For those of you who want to bail on a battle due to issues with ping and packet loss.

There is always a chance of pulling a WIN and being a hero.

I know this video is old but it still holds true. I have still won a couple like this in 2.0

( I have also bailed on a few like this in 2.0, so I am no saint )



losttwo #35 Posted 21 July 2019 - 02:38 PM

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Here is another battle that was FUBAR.

The video doesn't show the ping and packet loss due to after market recording software.

However I tried installing and using MODS and it really messed my game up.

You can hear and see how bad the battle is with all the wild shooting and such.

You will see bullets hit nothing then hear the announcer " enemy destroyed "

This is one of the reasons I do not run MODS.



wylleEcoyote #36 Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:17 PM

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Mods are like gun accessories. Less is more... 

 

Hakabase's mod installer works well for me.
It is self installing so it is great for those of us that fail to see computer code as anything but a bunch of random, meaningless mumbo-jumbo.
 
Aside from the huge variety of amazing historic skins for many airplanes (which i don't use very often because its a lot of memory) that many of you would likely appreciate looking at even if you choose to not install, i just use 3 mods.

 

  1. a gun sight mod that uses a larger recticle.
  2. a mod that identifies bots.
  3. a mod that brightens up the shells (but not tracers thats a separate thing) so i can better track their trajectories at long ranges.

The only issue in-game it has caused me is to break my hanger interface whenever i open a supply crate. Which is only fixed by a restart.
(i still get the goodies but i dont find out what they were)
A problem easily managed by restarting the game in safe mode before i want to open a supply chest.

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 21 July 2019 - 03:19 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : Japan, USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:   XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3 / F, Me 209 v4 / A, Me P.1092, I-17
Multi-Roles: Type 91, F11C-2, F4F, P-26, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Beaufighter,  Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262, Tu-1, SE 100,

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 


GeorgePatton #37 Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 20 July 2019 - 08:31 PM, said:


Quitters don't really ruin the match though, so you're eliminating numbers and replacing with...a bot in every match that player would have stuck around for.


A lot of my comments about how things affect the game are based around comments I've received from new players. For the veterans, the guys who are still here after 7 or so years or however long they've been here - sure - they'll be here no matter what. New people, on the other hand, are already struggling with the game in general - trying to figure it out, etc. When they see people quitting on their team when they're facing a 'plane with wings on the label' on the other side they're not happy. They feel like they're definitely going to lose - they don't want to keep trying to learn a game that feels broken.

 

So yeah - people leaving the battle IS a problem. Maybe not for you as a veteran who is going to keep playing even if the game was broken beyond recognition, but it's a problem for others and for getting new people established to grow the userbase.

 

 

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Captain_Underpants53 #38 Posted 21 July 2019 - 05:13 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 21 July 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:


A lot of my comments about how things affect the game are based around comments I've received from new players. For the veterans, the guys who are still here after 7 or so years or however long they've been here - sure - they'll be here no matter what. New people, on the other hand, are already struggling with the game in general - trying to figure it out, etc. When they see people quitting on their team when they're facing a 'plane with wings on the label' on the other side they're not happy. They feel like they're definitely going to lose - they don't want to keep trying to learn a game that feels broken.

 

So yeah - people leaving the battle IS a problem. Maybe not for you as a veteran who is going to keep playing even if the game was broken beyond recognition, but it's a problem for others and for getting new people established to grow the userbase.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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pyantoryng #39 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:25 PM

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It's a long-running problem since 2.0 hits - you can no longer lawndart your way out of battles anymore until 7 minutes elapse so the only option remaining is to outright quit...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
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BB3_Oregon_Steel #40 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 20 July 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:


The real question is why would they want to implement some kind of penalty for this, which likely includes a ban at some point...to an already tiny playerbase.  Can it be done?  Absolutely.  Should it be done?  Why shoot themselves in the foot?  Banning players for bailing on a game isn't going to get more players into the game.

 

The answer to that is fairly obvious.  If I'm a player and I am actually attempting to win the game and you take purposeful actions which you know will damage your teammates and if this happens frequently enough, then if it's not corrected, I'll head to another game system were stuffs like this do matter and management has put in place safeguards to discourage it. 

 

The bottom line is that, like it or not, WOWP's is a team game where the actions of each player benefit or detract from the likely results for other players. Even in a losing effort the presence and actions of the players influences the results of others.  When you, as a player, take actions which you feel benefit you at the expense of others, and those others are doing their best to win, only to have those efforts purposefully sabotaged by you, players will eventually get fed up and leave for greener pastures.  

 

The idea for WG, or at least what the idea should be is to create and maintain a positive game environment and quite frankly, people bailing on games and those who team kill create a negative environment, and I strongly suspect that those who want to create that positive environment largely outnumber those who just want to hit the Back to Hangar button when things aren't going their way.  So, in short, you very likely run a much higher risk of people leaving the game if situations like this get out of control than you do people leaving the game because there are now consequences for shooting up your friendly teammates and/or bailing on the game.  


"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  





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