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Bailing on a Battle - To bail or not to bail, that is the question


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BB3_Oregon_Steel #1 Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:17 PM

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Hi everyone.  

 

Biplane noob girl here getting ready to jump into to a place that I figure is going to be really deep and stinky, but after all, what else are noob girls for.  :great:

 

So ... I'm still kind of a noob when it comes to World of Warplanes.  I've been around for a while, since about 2015 but I haven't really been all that active until a few months ago.  However I am not a noob girl when it comes to World of Warships and I have some experience in World of Tanks as well.  

 

I started a derailing subject in the "Who have you seen in game" thread because I saw a lot of people talking about bailing on games they were playing as if it were a commonly accepted practice here.  As I said, most of my experience is in World of Warships where bailing on a battle is definitely not a generally accepted practice.  In fact, WG took the step of actually putting in an automated penalty system into place in that game to penalize players who habitually bailed on their battles.  

 

So, a part of my background on this subject is based on my ships experience, but the rest just comes from me and possibly my overdeveloped sense of responsibility towards others. 

 

It's simple for me.  When I enter a battle I am part of a team and part of that teams chance for success depends on me.  My job from the moment that battle begins until I'm a flaming smudge on the mountainside or I soar off to victory is to do all that I can to make my team as successful as I possibly can during the time I am there.  

 

Yes, there are times when things frustrate the poo out of me.  I might be on a bad team, there might be a couple of planes on the other side in a flight that are just wiping me and the other green planes out of the sky seemingly without effort. I might even have a genuine team killer that I have to deal with or others who are just so stupid I wonder if they have functioning brains.  There are people who don't care as much as I do, people who infuriate me by bragging what great seal clubbers they are and even people who are just flat out rude and unpleasant. 

 

To me, none of that matters.  My responsibilities to the team do not depend on the other members of my team and certainly not members of the opposing team, they remain my responsibilities and I have no excuse for not following through on them. 

 

The reason for this is that a failure on my part harms others who just have the bad misfortune of being on my team when I hit the "back to hanger button".  If its just me, and I want to bail on me, ok, the only one harmed is me however stupid that action might be.  But it's not just about me, it's about everyone else I fly with and, even though this is just an electronic game flying around in electronic airplanes, it's still important for that 15 minutes those people are relying on me. 

 

I completely understand the argument that if it's not against the rules, then I can do what I want.  Well the first argument there is that I'm not so sure it's not against the rules, it certainly is in ships and I suspect the only reason its not here is that we've been the red headed step child long enough that WG doesn't care to put the resources into enforcing those rules here.  It's simply bad for the game and what's bad for the game, to one extent or another, is bad for WG.  

 

But let's put that aside for a moment.  The Law (Rules in this case) does not define what our expected behavior should be, it defines the the minimum level of behavior that society is willing to tolerate.  Even if this behavior did fit within that minimum tolerable behavior model, its still wrong, an abdication of responsibility on a personal level, it might possibly be within the rules, but I don't think it rises to the level of being acceptable or at least I certainly hope it doesn't.  That's just a much higher standard that I think we should expect from each other and, for what it's worth, I certainly expect it of me.

 

So sorry if this ends up ruffling some feathers as I'm sure it will.  After all, I am just the noob girl who is putting herself out there judging all the rest of you and I'm sure there are those who will take offense.  But hey, I knew it was a stinky pile of poo when I decided to jump into it sooo ... . :hiding:

 

noob girl signing off.    :honoring:

 

 


Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel, 19 July 2019 - 11:21 PM.

"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


comtedumas #2 Posted 19 July 2019 - 11:23 PM

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Depends on what you have left to earn.  If you need say capture points to specialize an aircraft, then no, don't bail on a losing match.  I usually play until the end on everything, though.  

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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #3 Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:12 AM

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ok... I sped red it

didn't read the diatribe

without reading... never

I can find no reason except for:\

computer/hardware/software issues

if yer a puss...

well, yer a puss

play it and see what happens

really... one donkmudsucker will not control my life

+ my girl


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


GeorgePatton #4 Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:00 AM

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So I just had a quick read through the rules and apparently leaving a battle is not directly addressed in the rules posted here on the forum (which are in need of a drastic update...). It could be argued that leaving a battle before it is over violates the idle/bot 'rule' which I have not seen - you can report people for idle/bot but AFAIK there is no rule against leaving the battle early.

 

That being said, leaving the battle early is a very rude thing to do as it puts anyone in the battle with you down a player, and anyone on the other side has one less possible participant to shoot at.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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SpiritFoxMY #5 Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:15 AM

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You can still shoot at AFK airplanes. I do. There was this one guy on the enemy team who never loaded into the game and his Corsair kept flying straight over the center missile base. Needless to say, the enemy team never captured the missile base.

 

But, yeah, I consider rage-quitters to be... just bad. Unless you're being actively teamkilled, there's just no justification for loading in, playing for a bit then just peacing out because you didn't like the MM or something. It makes it that much harder for the rest of the team to fight back and honestly, you're not learning anything if all you do is quit at the first sign of trouble. I hate losing as much as anyone else here but quitting just means you lose AND you show yourself up as a bad sport AND a player who has no interest in actually putting any effort into the game.

 

I don't quit unless my game has something else to say (I've CTD a few times). Even against the odds I don't quit. It means I have a chance to learn from my mistakes, to observe the tactics of a dominant team and a small but tantalizing opportunity for a come from behind victory which is sometimes made even sweeter by ragequitters on my team since I like to imagine I'd just wasted their x3 daily.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 20 July 2019 - 01:15 AM.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


losttwo #6 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:09 AM

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If you leave a battle then you miss out on 1000 personal points.

I understand people get disconnected, have to run an errand of more importance.

More so for us older folks that are raising kids and family matters.

 

I never bail intentionally but I do bail on matches.

Then again would that be intentionally.

Wouldn't an important call that makes you AFK be an intentional bail ?

 

It is a game and sometimes I forget that when people talk about the " unfairness " of the match ups.

Not like this is a Football / Soccer match up or even real life war scenario's.

BenchWarmers should never be matched up against the Quarterbacks ...its just not fair.

 

Bail on a match if you choose, it is your 1000 personal points you are missing out on.

It is your conscious.

As Jiminy Cricket once said " Let your conscious be your guide" ~ Pinocchio


Edited by losttwo, 20 July 2019 - 06:20 AM.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #7 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:23 AM

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we can learn a lot from crickets

Spoiler

:)

 

 

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


GeorgePatton #8 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:35 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 19 July 2019 - 09:09 PM, said:

If you leave a battle then you miss out on 1000 XP.

I understand people get disconnected, have to run an errand of more importance.

More so for us older folks that are raising kids and family matters.

 

I never bail intentionally but I do bail on matches.

Then again would that be intentionally.

Wouldn't an important call that makes you AFK be an intentional bail ?

 

It is a game and sometimes I forget that when people talk about the " unfairness " of the match ups.

Not like this is a Football / Soccer match up or even real life war scenario's.

BenchWarmers should never be matched up against the Quarterbacks ...its just not fair.

 

Bail on a match if you choose, it is your 1000 XP you are missing out on.

It is your conscious.

As Jiminy Cricket once said " Let your conscious be your guide" ~ Pinocchio


It's Personal Point - not experience. You miss out on 1000 PP for leaving the match early.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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Captain_Underpants53 #9 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:38 AM

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:medal:

 

While I agree with the philosophy of not quitting a match, I don't feel I can, in good 'conscience', tell someone else they shouldn't.  If the 'Return to Hangar' button ever disappears I might change that attitude. 

 

But, yes, it does hurt team mates.


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Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:40 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 19 July 2019 - 09:35 PM, said:


It's Personal Point - not experience. You miss out on 1000 PP for leaving the match early.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


That would be one way for our Overlords to solve this issue.   Raise the personal points gained to something meaningful.


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ClosedCoffin #11 Posted 20 July 2019 - 03:27 AM

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I think it's better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune than bail.

Never have bailed, never will.

Even Hamlet made a few kills before leaving the game.

 

 

I'm not going to play if you're going to be like that

 


Edited by ClosedCoffin, 20 July 2019 - 03:58 AM.


Captain_Underpants53 #12 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:25 AM

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Uh, oh.  Bringing Shakespeare into it is sure to get this thread locked.

 

:ohmy:


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InfiniZ3ro #13 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:29 AM

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I feel pretty much the same.  Don't bail unless there's is no other option.  Rage quits are, personally unacceptable.  But if there is an absent pilot in the game, I probably wouldn't notice until after the game.  Almost seems like a political hot point about personal responsibility.  Either way, I won't condemn anyone who quite willingly.  I will however be more cautious when dealing with them.

In a side note,  welcome to the game.  Hope the subject matter doesn't dissuade you come continuing to play.


Edited by InfiniZ3ro, 20 July 2019 - 05:35 AM.


PoliticallyIncorrectName #14 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:33 AM

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As leaving battle is considered smaller offence than rustling someone's jimmies in chat, I'll be leaving any battle in which I don't like my odds. Had a game yesterday. Me in unspec'd P-43 as bottom tier against specialized P-38F and specialized Spitfire Ia. You can imagine how it went.

 

If they decide that premature leaving of battle if offence, I'll just shoot down 1 plane and then play like sub-40% WR. Then WG will not be able to ban you, as they would have to ban everybody who plays worse than bot

 

 

 


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Bobby_Tables #15 Posted 20 July 2019 - 05:39 AM

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This is an interesting topic.  

 

However, it makes me wonder, what happens when someone bails on a thread?  Like, they post one comment and then never follow up.  

 

What kind of person does that?

 



InfiniZ3ro #16 Posted 20 July 2019 - 06:23 AM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 20 July 2019 - 05:39 AM, said:

This is an interesting topic.  

 

However, it makes me wonder, what happens when someone bails on a thread?  Like, they post one comment and then never follow up.  

 

What kind of person does that?

 

I do that way more than I abandon battles.  Makes me wander what that means psycologically 



losttwo #17 Posted 20 July 2019 - 06:32 AM

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Does bailing on a battle really hurt the team ?

I have won many a battle playing in a 11vs12 match.

It is one less target for the enemy to score with.

Leaves you with 1 extra target to score with.

Personally I have never noticed until after battle when I see the after battle report.

Even when I hear the big bang at the beginning of the match.

 

If you concern yourself with learning to carry a match then 1 or 2 less players just doesn't make a difference.

Even in the course of battle someone will be out for a few seconds, then travel time to engage.

Then the squall line, when the herd gets thinned to " you're our only hope "

I have not yet seen a battle end with 12 vs 12, not even the rolfstomp matches.


Edited by losttwo, 20 July 2019 - 06:36 AM.


BB3_Oregon_Steel #18 Posted 20 July 2019 - 07:22 AM

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View PostPoliticallyIncorrectName, on 19 July 2019 - 09:33 PM, said:

As leaving battle is considered smaller offence than rustling someone's jimmies in chat, I'll be leaving any battle in which I don't like my odds. Had a game yesterday. Me in unspec'd P-43 as bottom tier against specialized P-38F and specialized Spitfire Ia. You can imagine how it went.

 

If they decide that premature leaving of battle if offence, I'll just shoot down 1 plane and then play like sub-40% WR. Then WG will not be able to ban you, as they would have to ban everybody who plays worse than bot

 

 

 

 

Actually, just for your information, where wg has implemented a penalty system for bailing on the game, it doesn't have anything to do with how well or poorly you play the game.  In WOWS they can track if you leave a battle before your ship is sunk.  A penalty is automatically applied and repeat offenders with escalating penalties if the behavior continues.  If they actually implemented something like that here, what you're suggesting wouldn't matter, you'd still get penalized.  They also have an effective system for identifying team killers which works in a similar fashion.  

 

Neither system is perfect and there are some limited ways around them, but they have reduced the incidence of people bailing from games and team killing to negligible amounts.  What use to happen every third or fourth game you entered now happens maybe a few times a year.  I honestly can't remember the last time I ran into an honest to god team killer in ships and afk's are pretty rare now too.  

 

So yes, WG can do it because they have done it effectively, it's just a matter of whether they choose to do it here or not.  If it becomes too great of a problem such that it actively hurts their revenue stream, you'll see them take actions like I've described above.


"Don't mess with me because I can squish you like a bug, that is If I should decide to notice your existence in the first place".  

 

Yes, it's haughty and its arrogant but you're a battleship with 16 inch guns and Britannia Rules the Waves.  Maybe a bit of arrogance in this case is appropriate.  


PoliticallyIncorrectName #19 Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:08 AM

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View PostBB3_Oregon_Steel, on 20 July 2019 - 07:22 AM, said:

 

Actually, just for your information, where wg has implemented a penalty system for bailing on the game, it doesn't have anything to do with how well or poorly you play the game.  In WOWS they can track if you leave a battle before your ship is sunk.  A penalty is automatically applied and repeat offenders with escalating penalties if the behavior continues.  If they actually implemented something like that here, what you're suggesting wouldn't matter, you'd still get penalized.  They also have an effective system for identifying team killers which works in a similar fashion.  

 

Neither system is perfect and there are some limited ways around them, but they have reduced the incidence of people bailing from games and team killing to negligible amounts.  What use to happen every third or fourth game you entered now happens maybe a few times a year.  I honestly can't remember the last time I ran into an honest to god team killer in ships and afk's are pretty rare now too.  

 

So yes, WG can do it because they have done it effectively, it's just a matter of whether they choose to do it here or not.  If it becomes too great of a problem such that it actively hurts their revenue stream, you'll see them take actions like I've described above.

 

There's your answer. Yes, in WOWS. I'm not talking about team damage, about leaving. And WOWP having SO GREAT CODING as it has, I get d/c every 3-4 game either during load into game or during load back to hangar.

Same goes for WOT while we're at it - leaving before tank gets destroyed a few times gets you banned.

 

What I'm implying that there's no definite way to see whether player is out of battle because he d/c because of advanced WG codingTM or leaving battle on my own from perpective of a teammate. Even if they tackle leaving battle on player's will, I can stay in a battle and <accidentally> run into ground or suddenly forget how to maneveur while flying above friendly sector. And try to prove that this is done on purpose rather than "skill" of a certain part of playerbase...


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SkyWolf__WM #20 Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:19 PM

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I never abandon a team no matter what the situation. I always stay even if I get dumped and have to re-enter a match.

Had a guy yesterday say "f___ this"  and bail at the beginning of a match (on my team). I looked at his battle stats and he had TWO

battles with a zero % win rate. I spoke to him (semi-nicely) and explained what he was doing wrong. He never answered me

back but a few matches later I saw him on my team and he stayed. Maybe he listened? 

:B

I may succkkk. But I won't bail on anyone. :)


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