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tip bombs ordnance rockets handling speed maneuverability

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Mercsn #1 Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:33 AM

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So, seeing this topic show up in a recent forum post motivated me to clear it up for others who may have read over the erroneous (incorrect) information in hopes that it doesn't spread and leave more players using wrong info in their gameplay and to help players who otherwise didn't know or see that post.

 

Ordnance (bombs or rockets) will usually will add a speed penalty to your aircraft.  There is no longer a maneuverability penalty to adding rockets or bombs.  If you equip bombs and/or rockets, your plane's maximum cruise and boost speeds will be decreased. 

 

There is NO way to remove the speed penalty to your aircraft once you enter the match.  Firing the rockets or dropping the bombs will NOT improve your maximum speed (or acceleration, if that's also affected).  So, even when you have no ordnance on your aircraft during the "reloading" time period, you STILL CONTINUE TO SUFFER THE DECREASE TO MAXIMUM SPEED as though you had the ordnance under your wings. 

 

Again, there is no penalty to handling/maneuvering for equipping rockets or bombs.  So, dropping bombs and firing off rockets WILL NOT improve maneuverability.  

 

Your acceleration may also decrease, although this is a hidden stat so it's not player testable and I can't confirm. The game does still have the hidden stats of acceleration and aircraft weight.  Aircraft weight does affect acceleration.  The ordnance not affecting handling is odd because weight should affect handling which means that there might not be a negative impact on acceleration.  So, it's a guess whether ordnance weight affects acceleration or not since ordnance weight doesn't affect handling.  The ordnance may simply weigh "zero" in the game code and the speed reduction is just an applied stat instead of a calculation.

 

The player that I saw post these misconceptions was probably doing so based on his Beta and 1.x experience where ordnance DID affect speed AND handling and DID drop the speed/handling penalty when the ordnance was dropped/fired off of the aircraft. This changed when 2.0 game mode added the "ordnance reload" feature for bombs and rockets.  Now, once you load ordnance and enter a match, you are stuck with that speed penalty.

 

If you don't like the speed penalty of equipping bombs or rockets, don't load bombs or rockets because there's no way to get that speed penalty off your plane during a match.  You will play the entire match with the speed penalty derived from loading that ordnance, even when the ordnance is in it's "reloading" phase.

 

There is no noticeable stat or ingame penalty to maneuvering for equipping bombs and rockets.  (Probably as a trade-off for being stuck with the speed penalty in 2.0.)

 

The exception to the rule of ordnance adding a speed penalty is for planes with an internal bomb bay.  They can load bombs without incurring a speed penalty (this includes bombers and some heavy fighters).  Some ground attack planes can also equip some of their bombs (even external) without a speed penalty. 

 

There is an equipment available "Aerodynamic Pylons" which can reduce the negative impact of the speed penalty to loading ordnance.  The reduction to the ordnance speed penalty is minimal and you don't get back much speed, in my experience.  But, it's something to look into (if the plane offers the equipment slot) for the goobs who insist on putting bombs on fighters.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

losttwo #2 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:01 AM

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GOOB ?

But I can still win with bombs and rockets on my fighter

:playing:


Edited by losttwo, 18 July 2019 - 08:02 AM.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #3 Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:30 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 18 July 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

GOOB ?

But I can still win with bombs and rockets on my fighter

:playing:


 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #4 Posted 18 July 2019 - 07:57 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 18 July 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

 


 


"Just the".



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #5 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:20 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 18 July 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:


"Just the".


multiroll


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #6 Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:01 PM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 18 July 2019 - 08:20 PM, said:


multiroll


My apologies.  I was too meta right there.



Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #7 Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:27 PM

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thanks again MercanAgain...

I kind'a knew it but I appreciate the verification and the clarity

good job bro

:honoring:

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, 18 July 2019 - 10:28 PM.

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


wylleEcoyote #8 Posted 19 July 2019 - 02:38 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 18 July 2019 - 01:33 AM, said:

 

If you don't like the speed penalty of equipping bombs or rockets, don't load bombs or rockets because there's no way to get that speed penalty off your plane during a match.  You will play the entire match with the speed penalty derived from loading that ordnance, even when the ordnance is in it's "reloading" phase.

 

There is no noticeable stat or ingame penalty to maneuvering for equipping bombs and rockets.  (Probably as a trade-off for being stuck with the speed penalty in 2.0.)

 

The exception to the rule of ordnance adding a speed penalty is for planes with an internal bomb bay.  They can load bombs without incurring a speed penalty (this includes bombers and some heavy fighters).  Some ground attack planes can also equip some of their bombs (even external) without a speed penalty. 

 

There is an equipment available "Aerodynamic Pylons" which can reduce the negative impact of the speed penalty to loading ordnance.  The reduction to the ordnance speed penalty is minimal and you don't get back much speed, in my experience.  But, it's something to look into (if the plane offers the equipment slot) for the goobs who insist on putting bombs on fighters.


The only Ground Attack planes I have that can mount bombs with no speed penalty is the ones that store them all internally.
 

I disagree with your take on Aerodynamic Pylons.
Up to 80% drag reduction on your external bombs and rockets is hardly 'minimal'.
Best example I can think of is the entire Thunderbolt line.
The whole line is an all-external-ordinance-truck for whom speeeeed is life.
Yes Hardpoints get the boom boom reloaded faster. but cost you speed.
Personally, I like being able to live long enough to use that reload.  Even if i have to wait a little longer to use it.

But wait there's more ...
This reduction of drag has direct effects on not just maximum boost/cruise speed but how soon your plane can reach that speed.
 This also indirectly translates into having more energy to loose in a turn.

Which is important for the likes of those more agile MultiRoles that REALLY want every bit of help they can get in those departments when sharing airspace with light fighters...
But also have a ground attack/rocket shenanigans package tempting enough to mount anyway "just in case" you need them.
RAF and US Navy MultiRoles come to mind here.   

It is worth briefly mentioning that there are a few one-off meme planes like the old Do335 (such bombs) and the new Multi Role from the IKEA catalog (much rockets)
that can also take advantage of what pylons can offer. But those are very specific cases.

With all that said there are still many other planes and lines that have optional bombs and rockets that are usually more of a hinderance than a help.
And the points Mercsn raised are valid reasons to leave that stuff in the hanger. Particularly for German and Japanese Multi Role and Heavy enthusiasts.


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 19 July 2019 - 04:13 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Bf 109 B / E / E-3, Me209v4, Me209 A
Multi-Roles: F11C-2, F4F, P-47B, Fw 56, He 112, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Tu-1, Bf 110 C-6, SE 100, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Do 217 M
 Japan: not even once.


trikke #9 Posted 19 July 2019 - 09:58 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 19 July 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

And the points Mercsn raised are valid reasons to leave that stuff in the hanger. Particularly for German and Japanese Multi Role and Heavy enthusiasts.


He taught me that, and I'm a good student to this day


edit:  except for the Do335 and that 670 lbs bomb on the T3 Wilk


Edited by trikke, 19 July 2019 - 10:01 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Mercsn #10 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:50 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 19 July 2019 - 08:38 AM, said:


1)  The only Ground Attack planes I have that can mount bombs with no speed penalty is the ones that store them all internally.
 
2)  I disagree with your take on Aerodynamic Pylons.
Up to 80% drag reduction on your external bombs and rockets is hardly 'minimal'.

3)  With all that said there are still many other planes and lines that have optional bombs and rockets that are usually more of a hinderance than a help.
And the points Mercsn raised are valid reasons to leave that stuff in the hanger. Particularly for German and Japanese Multi Role and Heavy enthusiasts.

 

1) Thanks for that correction.  I'd always been under the impression that when I put certain bomb loadouts on some of the Russian IL-2 based planes that WG just had some graphical glitch going on that didn't show the ordnance on the plane.  I never realized that the IL-2 actually had "little" internal bomb bays in the wing roots.  Ya learn something new everyday.

 

2)  The wing ordnance slot is just so often a bad slot for these aircraft, altogether, that I only mentioned in passing, in the original post because it did relate to the speed penalty that aircraft suffer when loading ordnance.

 

Using the P-40 M105 as an example (the first plane I found in the hangar that had a wing ordnance slot that would accept aerodynamic pylons), 32% drag reduction (tech level 148) equates to a gain of 1 km/h.  

 

I usually choose to equip the longer range for rockets or the better accuracy for bombs because without the bomb accuracy skill on the pilot, bombs have a tendency to go wide unless you really focus in on a target and line up a perfect drop (and doing that usually tends to get you dead).  There's nothing worse than having bombs in a Command Center, after all the air targets are dead and needing to take out one ground target and the bombs land a little wide and you don't quite kill it.

 

The longer range on rockets means a fighter who is messing with rockets can unload them while dropping less altitude or just a smidge sooner, if approaching a zone with a wounded target that you can kill to prevent a cap in neutral or achieve a cap in red.

 

Depending on the plane, I will take aerodynamic pylons over the bombsight or faster reload, if I'm not going to actually focus on bombing anything.  Even so, that equipment, afiak, isn't available until tier 5.  So, on lower tier planes, aerodynamic pylons simply isn't an option. But, if I'm not focused on bombing anything, "Why am I taking bombs?" is the question I need to ask myself.  If I do need to drop them to capture a zone or quickly prevent a capture in neutral, I need them to go where I want them too.  This leads me back to the bomb sight equipment. 

 

For a player thinking they want the speed benefit of aerodynamic pylons, I'd recommend not equipping the bombs in the first place:  that's the guaranteed best way to increase speed by reducing external stores drag.  In the example of the P-40 M105 (granted, rockets not big bombs), 2.5 to 3 kph just isn't much to get excited about. If we look at that Jug (US P-47), loaded up with rockets AND bombs, it's slow enough to get caught by a Spitfire anyways.  You'd have to specialize it to unlock the wing equipment slot.  While Player A is wasting his specialized equipment slot on aerodynamic pylons in his P-47 Player B is sticking a better engine in his specialized Sptifire. 

 

I would prefer if this equipment gave the result of "eliminates ordnance drag while ordnance is on reload cooldown".  THAT would actually be a useful flight stat AND encourage MR to actually carry this junk into battle AND to unload ordnance every chance they can (while this goes against my recommended tactics of use ordnance ONLY after all aerial targets are dead and the sector needs a bit more to capture, it would fit in with WG's class fantasy of the MR planes, while penalizing them less for taking the stuff in the first place).

 

3)  Thanks for not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, especially since this specific equipment item wasn't really the focus of the original post.

 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.





Also tagged with tip, bombs, ordnance, rockets, handling, speed, maneuverability

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