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community training room battles 'for the rest of us'


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mnbv_fockewulfe #21 Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:49 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 18 July 2019 - 01:46 AM, said:

i had a ton of fun last Saturday, i didn't do very well but i was so happy to be included!

 

this is a copy/paste crosspost, and i apologize...   but hear me out?

 

 

would there be any interest in an off-week 'mere mortals' training room?   the every-other-Saturday-night that FW is not running his?

 

would we get enough folks if we capped the eligible WR at 65%?

 

frankly, there's a thousand of us for every one of them... you would think that there would be enough interest to fill at least one room

 

we could try it, at least?    wanna?

 

edit:  we could let the mountain gods play if they flew a horrible plane, like a F4F?   or something else terribly horrific?

 

they would all have to fly the same horribad pos        we'd announce it friday evening EDT

 

or downtier the eff outta them and let them fly anything...  maybe 2 tiers?       they'll still roast us, though

 

edit edit:  wanna make them experience what we experience when we see them on the red team?

I did think of hosting an actual "training room" as opposed to the skirmish nights.

On the otherhand, my community nights are supposed to be open to everyone. 

It's not about performance, it's about having a good time and enjoying yourself. If you find you aren't enjoying yourself, I'd suggest maybe approaching the events a little differently.

And as always, the more people that show up, the more fun everyone will have and the more likely you'll be among people of your skill level. :) 

 

As far as the timing of my events, well, they are my events and are limited to what works for me. I am sorry that this doesn't work for our brothers across either sea, but there isn't much I can do about it *shrugs*.

 

I am very conscientious of the balancing of the events, which is a very difficult task if I may say.

I will elaborate about this in another post. 


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trikke #22 Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:54 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 18 July 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate what you're trying to do here - I just see a lot of issues with the idea of handicapping players with over 65% winrates.

 

A thought I had would be to maybe ask for pilots over 65% winrate to be 'flight leads' and give them each a wingman or two - have the wingmen follow the flight leads to learn what they do and give them some backup. This would also start giving the new or less skilled guys some teamplay experience which is something that many don't think about initially. 


Always great ideas... since alpha days, GP

 

The original idea was to outright ban 65+ pilots, but they're obviously the most successful players, and I learned a lot last Saturday just listening.     

I would be so pleased and proud to have SPs step into flight leader roles, maybe 3 per side with 2 newer folks assigned to each of them       3 air bosses per side... letting the new folks execute the strategies, while the bosses argue about the best strategy  (just listening to the disagreement would really be a master class)


I'm excited to see what will happen...  it's possible that we could consider a 1 tier SP hit, but that would be a normal battle, really.      They already murder us regularly with a 1 tier difference


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mnbv_fockewulfe #23 Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:16 AM

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View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 18 July 2019 - 05:49 PM, said:

Maybe just keep everyone in the same tier, but if over 65% they have to mount their stock configuration and fly stock. Those under that cutoff can (at their choice) fly specialist. Possibly even limit pilot skill points to 10 or under for everyone.

That seems a fair handicap, it would mostly level pilots and it would handicap high winrate/good players without handicapping them into the dirt?

My two cents only! 

 

 

Here is my philosophy: if it's allowed by the game, it's legal as far as I care.

The basic issue is there is no way to enforce a rule such as this.

In the training room lobby, there is no way to differentiate between specialist and non-specialist planes. Also, clicking on every player profile and checking what their winrate is would only increase the time it takes to setup (less time spent in the hangar the better). 

What am I supposed to do if I find out someone broke the rule after the battle is launched? Get everyone to quit and start over? Deal with the "unfair" play and exclude the offending player next time? 

It seems obvious to me that there are no good outcomes of having this or similar restrictions in a casual event.

And after running 12 odd of these things I have a fair good idea what factors affect the outcome of a match.

 

numbers>specialist>(players~planes)

To elaborate: I team is more likely to win first by if it has more players (i.e. 10v9, 10 is going to win); if one team has more specialist planes (abstractly, a team of standard planes loses to a team of specialist planes); thirdly, if one team has two top players on it and the other has none (this is something that I try to actively avoid but is complicated by...); plane choice, some planes are better than others in these all humans matches and people want to fly their favorite most tricked out planes to get an edge. These are basically all of the factors that are involved in setting up teams, and I'll be the first to admit, sometimes the matches are rigged from the start. So deal with it.


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trikke #24 Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:39 AM

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I'm a fairness fanatic, so choosing the sides is going to flip me right over the edge


I first watched you do it on Spirit's video, that impressed me more as much as the flying


Please, if you can...  please come?


Edited by trikke, 19 July 2019 - 01:40 AM.

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trikke #25 Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:21 PM

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I've also thought about all-same-plane battles, would that be fun?

I remember so many years ago that GP had run training rooms with only 410s, and only Tsh-3s, and others


so hilarious!       Toss out some ideas of planes that everyone owns?    Fw-57?    blennie bomber?


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Captain_Underpants53 #26 Posted 19 July 2019 - 02:36 PM

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Back when I was a member of FK we did a battle together with only rear turrets allowed against an all bot team.  It was a hoot!  If I remember right that wachamacallit French Tier V heavy was best at it.

 

:rolleyes:


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trikke #27 Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:21 AM

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24 hour countdown starts now!

Alternate week 9pm EDT Saturday evening training rooms     here's the permanent link for Discord

If your WR is above 65, grab your favorite tier 4

WR under 65?  Fly a tier 6


We'll fly some Conquest, Bomber Escort, etc

We'll make changes to tiers, teams, classes... and a surprise all-same-plane battle!

 

The superpilots will be flight leaders, but since they're so downtiered, they'll have to rely on their squads to get 'er done

To do that, they'll have to communicate and keep an eye on the flow of the battle for their squads


It's a risky proposition here... not many superpilots have signed on, being 2 tiers down can't be fun

I completely understand, and we'll have fun without them, but this would be a unique opportunity for them, and us


Snag a couple of buddies, come for the fun and stay for the free beer      we'll start an overflow room, if needed


 


Edited by trikke, 20 July 2019 - 01:24 AM.

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LMG #28 Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:31 AM

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Oh crap, I almost missed this :amazed:

Make sure to post this in the community events channel in the WoWP Discord so I can join :honoring:


This is my IL-2 (t). There are many like it, but this one is mine. :child:

Marraskuu #29 Posted 20 July 2019 - 01:35 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 19 July 2019 - 07:21 AM, said:

I've also thought about all-same-plane battles, would that be fun?

I remember so many years ago that GP had run training rooms with only 410s, and only Tsh-3s, and others


so hilarious!       Toss out some ideas of planes that everyone owns?    Fw-57?    blennie bomber?

 

F2A Buffalo :B


 
 
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Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #30 Posted 20 July 2019 - 02:31 AM

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View PostBuffaloTime, on 19 July 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

F2A Buffalo :B

.

.

.that plane makes me feel dirty

.

.

go with a 57

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


trikke #31 Posted 20 July 2019 - 08:19 PM

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if you're new to Discord like i am, after you use the Discord permanent link above, search for WoWPDiscord

 

then look for the Welcome page, and assign yourself to the NA server using the tiny colored boxes at the bottom of Eeekeeboo's server rules 

 

then the world opens up wide for you!     

 

look at the left column, scroll down past Text, Notification channels and Community channels to Voice channels, click on Flight 2 and check your mic is working

 

you're in!


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GeorgePatton #32 Posted 20 July 2019 - 08:52 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 20 July 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

if you're new to Discord like i am, after you use the Discord permanent link above, search for WoWPDiscord

 

then look for the Welcome page, and assign yourself to the NA server using the tiny colored boxes at the bottom of Eeekeeboo's server rules 

 

then the world opens up wide for you!     

 

look at the left column, scroll down past Text, Notification channels and Community channels to Voice channels, click on Flight 2 and check your mic is working

 

you're in!


If all else fails, just type something in any of the chats you can access and we'll help you out from there!

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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trikke #33 Posted 20 July 2019 - 09:06 PM

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ty, GP.        It's folks like yourself that make our small world work better     
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GeorgePatton #34 Posted 20 July 2019 - 11:58 PM

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Vanillain #35 Posted 21 July 2019 - 03:13 PM

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How about themed battles? Axis vs allies or all fighter battles? 

trikke #36 Posted 21 July 2019 - 06:36 PM

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darn it, we were having so much fun that we didn't even get to our heavy fighter theme battles


or the all-same-plane battles!    We went for two hours, and I had a couple of decent runs, but didn't really contribute


 Both great ideas, and we will include them in the next Saturday Night Live battles, on August 3rd 9pm EDT


This coming Saturday night = FW's regularly scheduled twice-monthly training room, same Discord channel


his event last week was where i had such a great time that I dreamed up this crazy idea


I didn't want to wait two whole weeks until I flew with, and against, the very best in the business again


It's so interesting to listen to them share their tips live, while they're actually doing the things they're talking about


I want to say thank you to all that flew last night     I was so relieved that anyone showed up at all!


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CorvusCorvax #37 Posted 22 July 2019 - 04:08 AM

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Thanks for the fights, trikke.  I played some planes I haven't played in forever.  The AD-10C was a hoot.  And the IL-1 was better than I remember.  I had forgotten how great the P-39N really is.

 

I have used the community nights to play stuff that I don't often play (because I'm grinding, or whatever.)  It is nice to be able to just fly around like that.  T8/9 on a really small map is hilarious.  And I really like the idea of all heavies.  :)

 



trikke #38 Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:26 AM

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still say that a two tier hit balances out the uber-pilots with just normal human beings...   


whoo whee, that idea got some real pushback.      Maybe adjusting the WR% down to 60, or even 55 would help


because a one tier hit would just be too ridiculously easy for them to leap over


but hey, let's try one tier down in two weeks


Edited by trikke, 23 July 2019 - 02:29 AM.

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SpiritFoxMY #39 Posted 23 July 2019 - 04:01 AM

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One tier down is more reasonable

 

Just to put things in perspective, when Rei and I end up downtiered against a flight one tier up, its always a lucky break when we win - usually because we are simply more efficient in taking out bots, not in a face to face match up. There are very very very very few planes that can remain competitive even one tier down, especially if its a hump tier like 4-5 or 7-8. The planes that can be competitive on a one tier disadvantage are: Spitfire I, Emil, P38F, I220, Vampire, P.1092. And all this is assuming Specialist vs. NonSpec.

 

I vividly recall one of my early battles in the P-51K, way back before Specialization and when 2 v 1 battles were still a thing. I was flying the K, my cousin was in the F7F, our opponent was in a Spitfire XIV.

 

We couldn't do anything. 

 

He was faster in all angles, climbed higher, turned better and had superior firepower. I could only dive away from him and all he did was follow me all the way across Albion until I ran out of altitude and just tore me apart without me being able to respond. What is anyone supposed to do in this position? And remember, this was a regular game with bots. You're proposing a proper PvP match up where humans will almost certainly hunt down and kill other humans because its PvP. What exactly are we supposed to do against players 2 tiers higher? We can make a fight of it, but I think you overestimate a players ability to overcome the sheer stat advantages that being 2 tiers higher conveys.

 

I mean, you've flown with me. You know what I do as soon as we're downtiered - I go to great lengths to avoid direct confrontation until I'm either forced to by circumstances or the other guy is weakened and distracted. And this is a single tier disadvantage. You're now talking double tier which would see me flying my Wirraway against Specialist Spitfires. And that's the most favorable match up I can think of.

 

I'm willing to just go along but being nothing more than a pinata to everyone else isn't my idea of a good time.


Edited by SpiritFoxMY, 23 July 2019 - 04:04 AM.

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For death is a distant friend

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And a laurel to crown each end


CorvusCorvax #40 Posted 23 July 2019 - 02:14 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 23 July 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

One tier down is more reasonable

 

Just to put things in perspective, when Rei and I end up downtiered against a flight one tier up, its always a lucky break when we win - usually because we are simply more efficient in taking out bots, not in a face to face match up. There are very very very very few planes that can remain competitive even one tier down, especially if its a hump tier like 4-5 or 7-8. The planes that can be competitive on a one tier disadvantage are: Spitfire I, Emil, P38F, I220, Vampire, P.1092. And all this is assuming Specialist vs. NonSpec.

 

I vividly recall one of my early battles in the P-51K, way back before Specialization and when 2 v 1 battles were still a thing. I was flying the K, my cousin was in the F7F, our opponent was in a Spitfire XIV.

 

We couldn't do anything. 

 

He was faster in all angles, climbed higher, turned better and had superior firepower. I could only dive away from him and all he did was follow me all the way across Albion until I ran out of altitude and just tore me apart without me being able to respond. What is anyone supposed to do in this position? And remember, this was a regular game with bots. You're proposing a proper PvP match up where humans will almost certainly hunt down and kill other humans because its PvP. What exactly are we supposed to do against players 2 tiers higher? We can make a fight of it, but I think you overestimate a players ability to overcome the sheer stat advantages that being 2 tiers higher conveys.

 

I mean, you've flown with me. You know what I do as soon as we're downtiered - I go to great lengths to avoid direct confrontation until I'm either forced to by circumstances or the other guy is weakened and distracted. And this is a single tier disadvantage. You're now talking double tier which would see me flying my Wirraway against Specialist Spitfires. And that's the most favorable match up I can think of.

 

I'm willing to just go along but being nothing more than a pinata to everyone else isn't my idea of a good time.


Agreed.  A Spit I against an Me-410 is not even close to sporting, I don't care how good the Spit pilot is.  A P-38J will crush a Bf-110E, and I don't think a Ki-45 pilot even has a ghost of a chance, unless the Lightning driver screws the pooch REALLY hard.  The Emil might do OK in most matchups, but the Spit V DB605 is going to be a VERY tough opponent, especially it has a speed build.

 

I think that instead of a tier difference, the top-performing pilots play a plane that they don't normally play - something they are not as comfortable in, that doesn't have a 12-skill pilot, etc.  I mean, I do that anyway, because I fly my "comfort" planes a lot. Testing out your skills in plane that you don't fly much is more fun than memeing all over the skies!






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