Jump to content


community training room battles 'for the rest of us'


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

trikke #1 Posted 18 July 2019 - 01:46 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3409 battles
  • 3,312
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

i had a ton of fun last Saturday, i didn't do very well but i was so happy to be included!

 

this is a copy/paste crosspost, and i apologize...   but hear me out?

 

 

would there be any interest in an off-week 'mere mortals' training room?   the every-other-Saturday-night that FW is not running his?

 

would we get enough folks if we capped the eligible WR at 65%?

 

frankly, there's a thousand of us for every one of them... you would think that there would be enough interest to fill at least one room

 

we could try it, at least?    wanna?

 

edit:  we could let the mountain gods play if they flew a horrible plane, like a F4F?   or something else terribly horrific?

 

they would all have to fly the same horribad pos        we'd announce it friday evening EDT

 

or downtier the eff outta them and let them fly anything...  maybe 2 tiers?       they'll still roast us, though

 

edit edit:  wanna make them experience what we experience when we see them on the red team?


Edited by trikke, 20 July 2019 - 08:21 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #2 Posted 18 July 2019 - 02:11 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 1094 battles
  • 4,616
  • [3NIC] 3NIC
  • Member since:
    01-26-2014

I think you should be grateful to get 10-12 and put no handicap on

you do know the hotshot players don't really put forth huge effort on those nights

they're just bouncing around, not taking it too seriously for the most part

just getting people should be the first goal

lol

but yeah... an open night every saturday 8:30- 11 est could be fun for drops in

.

.

.

I nominate Micky Tricky

:medal:


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


trikke #3 Posted 18 July 2019 - 02:29 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3409 battles
  • 3,312
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

8:30pm Sat is a great time for me, on the edt east coast, but that would kill our friends in western timezones, especially SFMY who is exactly 12 hours ahead of us

 

how about 9pm?    in discord, in flight 2?    would a discord-adept post a permanent link here from flight 2?

 

you're right, just getting even a few folks would be an accomplishment, but... let's try it?

 

which sounds more reasonable...  superpilots fly anything, but downtiered 2 tiers, or same tier crapmobiles?

 

or just one tier down?   really, that's just childs-play to them, being down just one tier

 

throw out some horror planes to think about?

 

stay in one mid-tier all night, or a narrow range in mid-tiers, max T8?

 


Edited by trikke, 18 July 2019 - 02:35 AM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

GeorgePatton #4 Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:03 AM

    газета

  • -Community Ace-
  • 1509 battles
  • 5,410
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

I like the idea of running training rooms every Saturday. I don't think limiting by win rate or anything is necessarily a good idea - it'll discourage a lot of participation. Most of the guys who are actually active on the forums/discord are above 65% win rates. Like Ace said, the good players don't really take it too seriously, and I would add to that that the rest of us can stand to learn a lot from competing with them even if they're not taking it seriously.

 

Here's the official Discord link!

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


                                                                                                                                 Click the Pictures to Visit My YouTube Channel.


_Bruiser_ #5 Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:35 AM

    Senior Master Sergeant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 5499 battles
  • 197
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

interesting, ive been wondering how long it would take before a discussion on good, elite, supreme, godlike w/rs

 

like, where are those breaks in the numbers? 55, 60, 65, 70, 70+ ?

 

reminds me of the WN8 of wot, and whatever its called in wows



Bobby_Tables #6 Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:56 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 6995 battles
  • 1,812
  • [-DOW-] -DOW-
  • Member since:
    06-16-2014

If the population supports it, I would like to see more community battles.  

 

Personally, I don't think cutting the Oaks so the Maples have more light is the way to go*.  How else to learn but by going up against the elite?  

 

I used to get pumped when I saw someone like HOH_Wolfblitz on the other team, or for that matter, on my team.  Made me try twice as hard to mind my P's and Q's. 

 

Now that it is no longer a death-match and more based on stategery, it's not as exciting, but in the community matches, I have learned some things.  Like, for example, I'm doing it all wrong yet again.  

 

*

* Dedicated to Ace_boobtistic_cosmonaut for whom Rush is the ultimate embodiment of musical excellence.  


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 18 July 2019 - 06:58 AM.


losttwo #7 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:15 AM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 4507 battles
  • 13,783
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

Limiting a win rate ?????

How can you learn if you do not go against better pilots ?

Watch the replay and see what they did differently to shoot you down.

 

I learned from better players shooting me down.

Learned to not put my fighter into a head on with a heavy.

Learned to roll around the incoming rounds and turn before they pass you.

 

You can not learn from less experience players, well other than shooting them and getting a score.

 

Lets not mention the entire concept of " if you suck " then you want that great player on your team for the win.

The ONE KEY FACT the " seal club whiners " forget.

You love it when the seal clubber wins your match for you.

 

BY the way, will get a PARTICIPATION reward for joining the fun ?

 


Edited by losttwo, 18 July 2019 - 08:16 AM.


jonnymule74 #8 Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:05 AM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 5176 battles
  • 79
  • Member since:
    12-15-2013

I'm in, but only if you think you can handle my 49% WR......LOL

 

:trollface:


Ask me if I GAF.......

gerr22 #9 Posted 18 July 2019 - 11:30 AM

    Command Chief Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4657 battles
  • 575
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    12-27-2013

i m in

 



Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 18 July 2019 - 11:35 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 21614 battles
  • 3,081
  • [A-S-S] A-S-S
  • Member since:
    04-17-2017
It has always bothered me that the newest players, who would most benefit from something like this, are the least likely to participate.  I attribute that to the fact they don't have much silver to begin with.
MSgt, USAF, (ret)

trikke #11 Posted 18 July 2019 - 01:28 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3409 battles
  • 3,312
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

I would love to see a bunch of new guys!


all on the same discord channel so that the superpilots can share strategy, but the new guys do the heavy lifting


We'd still be going against superpilots, but they'll be downtiered 2 tiers


which would barely slow them down


if superpilots refuse to participate, well that was my original idea anyway


but I'll bet every one of them would relish the challenge.     They're all excellent mentors already


Two weeks later, we'd lower it to 50% pilots or 55% or 60% or whatever folks want


So...  9pm Saturday EDT,  self-report if you're over/under 65%, fly the tier or 2 tiers down


I'm 65.5, so I'll be 2 tiers down.     Let's start tier 5, so I'll be tier 3


If you need help with Discord, feel free to post here, we'll get you going in time to fight!

 


Edited by trikke, 18 July 2019 - 01:36 PM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

GeorgePatton #12 Posted 18 July 2019 - 02:15 PM

    газета

  • -Community Ace-
  • 1509 battles
  • 5,410
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 18 July 2019 - 06:35 AM, said:

It has always bothered me that the newest players, who would most benefit from something like this, are the least likely to participate.  I attribute that to the fact they don't have much silver to begin with.

 

I think a big part of the challenge in getting new player participation in anything is that most of them don't find their way to the forums or any other of the methods of communication where the experienced and invested members of the community communicate. That has certainly been a challenge for me in finding new pilots to mentor.

 

View Posttrikke, on 18 July 2019 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would love to see a bunch of new guys!


all on the same discord channel so that the superpilots can share strategy, but the new guys do the heavy lifting


We'd still be going against superpilots, but they'll be downtiered 2 tiers


which would barely slow them down


if superpilots refuse to participate, well that was my original idea anyway


but I'll bet every one of them would relish the challenge.     They're all excellent mentors already


Two weeks later, we'd lower it to 50% pilots or 55% or 60% or whatever folks want


So...  9pm Saturday EDT,  self-report if you're over/under 65%, fly the tier or 2 tiers down


I'm 65.5, so I'll be 2 tiers down.     Let's start tier 5, so I'll be tier 3


If you need help with Discord, feel free to post here, we'll get you going in time to fight!

 

 

I have to disagree very strongly with using winrate to classify players as 'super' or anything. Most but not all of the players with a winrate above 65% have learned to play PvE with the bots while using the meta planes and nothing else. Those players will never want to play down two tiers. That instantly puts them at a massive disadvantage where they're no longer meta and can't do anything.

 

Let's talk a little bit about the two tiers down thing... At tier 5, that means anyone with a >65% wrinrate is going to be flying tier 3. Think about the speed difference and the altitude difference between those tiers. Remember, there's a change of periods at tier 4-5 which also means a difference in equipment boosts. It's hard enough for a tier 4 to compete with a tier 5 - there is no way a tier 3 is going to compete with a tier 5. (it's technically possible, but it would not be fun.) Then there's the whole speed issue - tier 3 already has a hard time making it around the maps they encounter - do you really want to put a period 1 aircraft on a period 2 map?

 

Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate what you're trying to do here - I just see a lot of issues with the idea of handicapping players with over 65% winrates.

 

A thought I had would be to maybe ask for pilots over 65% winrate to be 'flight leads' and give them each a wingman or two - have the wingmen follow the flight leads to learn what they do and give them some backup. This would also start giving the new or less skilled guys some teamplay experience which is something that many don't think about initially. The other day I was flying the P-51H with a buddy and I decided to try flying wing to double up our firepower - it made us much more effective and really inspired this idea. In that case, it wasn't necessarily 'strategic' but more of an experiment in seeing how maintaining wing position, etc could work and whether doubling the firepower was worth it. 

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


                                                                                                                                 Click the Pictures to Visit My YouTube Channel.


SpiritFoxMY #13 Posted 18 July 2019 - 03:24 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Closed Beta Tester
  • 4585 battles
  • 2,555
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    12-31-2012
I'll jump in :P Just make sure all of you fly tier 7s so I get some A-5 time in :trollface:

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Deciballistic #14 Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:35 PM

    Master Sergeant

  • Member
  • 4343 battles
  • 42
  • [I_D] I_D
  • Member since:
    07-22-2018

I have planes researched that I can't afford to purchase now.  I have planes that I have unlocked specialist and can't afford to equip it.  I know overall that participating in this wouldn't cost a great deal, but when I am trying to save credits for stuff, I just have a hard time seeing my balance decrease after a training match instead of increasing (unless I am mistaken, you usually lose credits playing a training room).

 

It really is too bad that the community has to put this together rather than WG adding some sort of team battles to the game.



Stygian_Alchemist #15 Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:49 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10163 battles
  • 1,845
  • [A-S-S] A-S-S
  • Member since:
    10-08-2018

Maybe just keep everyone in the same tier, but if over 65% they have to mount their stock configuration and fly stock. Those under that cutoff can (at their choice) fly specialist. Possibly even limit pilot skill points to 10 or under for everyone.

That seems a fair handicap, it would mostly level pilots and it would handicap high winrate/good players without handicapping them into the dirt?

My two cents only! 

 

 

 


losttwo #16 Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:55 PM

    which way do we go?

  • Community Ace
  • 4507 battles
  • 13,783
  • [S-S-G] S-S-G
  • Member since:
    05-15-2012

But win rate is not a good level of skill.

Would it not be better to measure by average damage.

My win rate is steadily climbing because i learn more on how to exploit the game rather than getting better at the plane.

I can easily win 10 battles in a row even in a new plane such as the Tier 5 Hurricane II  ( I do not even have the last upgraded engine yet )

2 rocket kills in 1 match.

Yet my average damage stinks.

My WIN RATE doesn't reflect my skill level. I really truly stink at this game.



Stygian_Alchemist #17 Posted 18 July 2019 - 07:03 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10163 battles
  • 1,845
  • [A-S-S] A-S-S
  • Member since:
    10-08-2018

View Postlosttwo, on 18 July 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

But win rate is not a good level of skill.

Would it not be better to measure by average damage.

My win rate is steadily climbing because i learn more on how to exploit the game rather than getting better at the plane.

I can easily win 10 battles in a row even in a new plane such as the Tier 5 Hurricane II  ( I do not even have the last upgraded engine yet )

2 rocket kills in 1 match.

Yet my average damage stinks.

My WIN RATE doesn't reflect my skill level. I really truly stink at this game.

I tend to agree win rate is -not- a good measure. I just don't know what stat there -really- is that is workable as a good indicator of skill and easily looked up. So, stuck with Trikke's original proposal of win rate as its not a -horrible- indicator if some subjectivity/wiggling is done regarding the individual pilots' skill levels and whether they would fly stock or not.

Still, ultimately it's up to Trikke how to set it up if he's going to run it :)



Captain_Underpants53 #18 Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:32 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 21614 battles
  • 3,081
  • [A-S-S] A-S-S
  • Member since:
    04-17-2017

View PostDeciballistic, on 18 July 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

I have planes researched that I can't afford to purchase now.  I have planes that I have unlocked specialist and can't afford to equip it.  I know overall that participating in this wouldn't cost a great deal, but when I am trying to save credits for stuff, I just have a hard time seeing my balance decrease after a training match instead of increasing (unless I am mistaken, you usually lose credits playing a training room).

 

It really is too bad that the community has to put this together rather than WG adding some sort of team battles to the game.

You are not mistaken


MSgt, USAF, (ret)

GeorgePatton #19 Posted 18 July 2019 - 09:44 PM

    газета

  • -Community Ace-
  • 1509 battles
  • 5,410
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostStygian_Alchemist, on 18 July 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Maybe just keep everyone in the same tier, but if over 65% they have to mount their stock configuration and fly stock. Those under that cutoff can (at their choice) fly specialist. Possibly even limit pilot skill points to 10 or under for everyone.

That seems a fair handicap, it would mostly level pilots and it would handicap high winrate/good players without handicapping them into the dirt?

My two cents only! 

 

 

This is a good idea - it keeps performance in terms of being able to get around the map fairly even, and it will also more accurately reflect what we'd see in an actual battle while giving a slight nerf to the really good pilots.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


                                                                                                                                 Click the Pictures to Visit My YouTube Channel.


trikke #20 Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:21 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 3409 battles
  • 3,312
  • [R-A-W] R-A-W
  • Member since:
    01-26-2012

View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 18 July 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

I'll jump in :P Just make sure all of you fly tier 7s so I get some A-5 time in :trollface:


I'm so happy that I have a such a good friend, one who would jump in with both feet into a half baked idea, one that he's got tons of reservations about already


AND get up extra early on a Saturday morning to help support that half baked idea


Ty, brother.   Of course you'll be able to fly that A-5!


Let's try everything! 


The 2 tier hit was designed to quickly offset superpilots while in the TR sorting queue, no changing out pilots or equipment needed.  Just pick a favorite plane and go!

WR is a horrible basis for judging overall ability...  granted        I'm an example

I've just never seen a superpilot without a high WR, and it's a fast simple self-report whenever time is precious


The suggestion about T3 vs T5 is valid.    Let's go T6, with SPs at T4

 


Edited by trikke, 19 July 2019 - 12:24 AM.

Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users