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Ta 152 Upgrades


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Ice_King #1 Posted 03 July 2019 - 12:55 AM

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Posted Image

 

Can anyone tell me what stat increase I get from spending 20k xp and 150k credits on this airframe? Cuz it looks like I get nothing.



trikke #2 Posted 03 July 2019 - 01:00 AM

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usually it's a hitpoint boost         

 

good catch on a bug most of us would never get to see, and far more of us wouldn't have noticed 


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 03 July 2019 - 01:17 AM

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Maneuverability (11.4 from 12.3 stock) and Dive Speed (900 from 850 stock) 

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


wylleEcoyote #4 Posted 03 July 2019 - 10:16 AM

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And a better power to weight ratio. Determined in-game by engine horse power and overall drag (a hidden 'soft' stat) from the airframe. 

This is where weegee gets the base acceleration value that gets affected by just about anything else you put in your plane:
fuel mix consumables,
many pilot skills like engine guru, cruise flight, AeroDynamic Expert.
and most of the equipment that you can mount in the game
 

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3, Me209v4, Me209 A, I-17
Multi-Roles: F11C-2, F4F, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Tu-1, Bf 110 C-6, SE 100, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 Japan: not even once.


CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 03 July 2019 - 03:48 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 03 July 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

And a better power to weight ratio. Determined in-game by engine horse power and overall drag (a hidden 'soft' stat) from the airframe. 

This is where weegee gets the base acceleration value that gets affected by just about anything else you put in your plane:
fuel mix consumables,
many pilot skills like engine guru, cruise flight, AeroDynamic Expert.
and most of the equipment that you can mount in the game
 

 

^^^this is very important information.

 

The soft stats of a plane can often make or break your experiences with it.  The Ta-152 is a very strong fighter for it's tier, and before the gun nerf, was really a whole lot of trouble @T8.  Now it is a little more regular, but still very dangerous.



Reitousair #6 Posted 03 July 2019 - 07:09 PM

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People have already mentioned what you get from the airframe but it's worth noting that airframe upgrades only list the HP values, if you want to see the other stat changes you'll need to look at the WoWp website (specifically the 'Warplanes' section) as they've removed the ability to see stat changes from upgrades when clicking on them, you have to mount them first nowadays.

 

Still, that airframe upgrade transforms the Ta-152 from a BnZ fighter to an energy fighter meaning you can actually dogfight aircraft if you know how to manage your speed and maneuvers.


I do fly Chinese aircraft a fair amount so... *ahem*

CHINA NUMBAH WAN

 

I even made a custom skin for my IL-10M!

 


wylleEcoyote #7 Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:19 PM

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Drag is not the Only soft stat but it is a big one for the airframe module it is as important as its Hitpoint total and the size shape and location of its hit boxes (also hidden)..


other hidden stats that have come to my attention include:
Spoiler


The mechanics on how a gun/rocket/bomb in Warplanes does its thing is  ... complex.
There is much more to it than DPS, RoF, Range.
 
Spoiler

All dumbed down for figuring out how small you can make the dispersion circle around the dot in the middle of your screen.

Speaking of placing the dot where you want it on the screen ...
Spoiler


To be fair to WeeGee:

Most of these stats are hidden because their complexity is necessary for the game to know but not absolutely necessary for the player to know.
thus lowering the entry requirements for your player base. This positively reinforces the "get as many players as possible to play" doctrine of WeeGee's F2P business model.  Additionally it keeps other competing developers from easily copypasting their work.

If these stats were not hidden; then such transparency would also allow a player to determine a mathematical ONE TRUE WAY to Min/Max their favorite plane/boat/tank to whatever stat padding task they want it to do.
With as little actual game play and "dead end" experimentation (things what some of us might actually call 'fun')as possible.
Fun? but how ...

Which also runs counter to the "get as many players as possible to play" doctrine of WeeGee's F2P business model.
   

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 03 July 2019 - 10:27 PM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3, Me209v4, Me209 A, I-17
Multi-Roles: F11C-2, F4F, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Tu-1, Bf 110 C-6, SE 100, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 Japan: not even once.


Mercsn #8 Posted 03 July 2019 - 10:47 PM

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In the good old days, they used to show you (on the in game ui) what the changes would be for each stat category when you clicked on it.  They took it out because #RussianLogic

All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Ice_King #9 Posted 04 July 2019 - 01:09 AM

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Wow so I really have no idea what I'm upgrading when I do lol. 

 

Between this and the vague "+150 horse power" (which means nothing because I don't see horsepower anywhere else or how that translates into speed) I guess I need to just always elite to see what a plane can do.



Mercsn #10 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:06 PM

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View PostIce_King, on 03 July 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

Wow so I really have no idea what I'm upgrading when I do lol. 

 

Between this and the vague "+150 horse power" (which means nothing because I don't see horsepower anywhere else or how that translates into speed) I guess I need to just always elite to see what a plane can do.

 

Usually, the increased power adds some speed.  Ground attack aircraft seem to be an exception to this rule.  Again, in the good old days, the UI actually showed the weight of the plane.  The game does use power to weight ratio to determine acceleration stat, a hidden stat.  Also, more power, theoretically, will aid turning performance since you can sustain maximum turn rate longer with more power.  The game kinda takes this into account, although not nearly to the degree a more simmy title would.


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

wylleEcoyote #11 Posted 08 July 2019 - 12:39 AM

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 horse power is the measurment of the upper limit of the torque produced by the piston engines and converted into thrust by its propeller. . 
in teir 7+ jet engines its called "lbs/kg of thrust". When a fancy consumable, pilot skill, or piece of equipment "improves thrust/acceleration" it is the 'Horsepower' or 'lbs/kgs of thrust'  that is effected.

Either one is the raw acceleration of the engine (up to its maximum advisable mechanical rating) before all the things that slow you down take effect.
things like the altitude the engine is in, the weight of the engine, the air frame its bolted onto (and by extension everything else attached to the airframe) and the aerodynamic drag of that whole pile of connected parts.    Factor it all together and the left over acceleration is the stuff that makes the plane move fast enough through the air to gain lifting force from the wings. How quickly you get to that limit is what your Rate of Climb value is in the Altitude rating (more is better)

When you reach that limit where the engine cant push any faster because the aerodynamic drag from the plane itself is slowing you down due to air friction.
and the altitude begins to suck away engine power from lack of air  
This is how you get the Max Cruise Speed at optimal altitude. 

That aerodynamic drag also determines the ultimate limit of what will be your Max Dive Speed (and how a Polished skin does its magic)

Now it is mechanically possible in most cases to exceed that thrust value. Doing so for any length of time is so bad that it requires a [edited]ton of maintenance before it can be safely flown again. Doing so for an extended period of time will destroy your engine. Due to the oil overheating and breaking down into glue causing the engine to seize up.
Or for jets certain parts that are supposed to stay hard getting so hot that they soften. Then deform. and then there is a usually catastophic failure resulting in a flameout or explosion...
This is where we get the phrase Emergency/Full Military Power. as in "do not exceed this limit for more than x seconds unless you are being shot at."

This is where your Max Boost speed comes from. Also why some planes get more boost than others. And yes there are hidden stats for determining just how much time it takes to get to that top emergercy speed. Shorter is better. If you only have an 8 second boost then getting to that top speed in half a second is way better than getting there in 2 seconds. This is where the all the magic happens with Engine Booster equipment slots.

  

Edited by wylleEcoyote, 08 July 2019 - 01:09 AM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is much like my WinRate. Hit or Miss.
Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.

Specialist Planes I have from : USA, UK, Germany, USSR, Europe
Light Fighters:  XP-31, Model 81A-1, P-40, P-51A, P-39N-1, XF15C, DH.100 F1, Fw 56, He 112, Bf 109 B / E / E-3, Me209v4, Me209 A, I-17
Multi-Roles: F11C-2, F4F, P-47B, Fw 190 A-1 / A-5 / D, I- 5 / 15 / 16(e)(l)

Heavy Fighters: P-38 F/J,  XP-58, Tu-1, Bf 110 C-6, SE 100, Me 410, Do 335 A-1, Me 262

Attack Aircraft: Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2
Bombers: Do 17 Z, He 111 H2, Pe-2, Do 217 M
 Japan: not even once.


Captain_Underpants53 #12 Posted 08 July 2019 - 09:23 AM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 07 July 2019 - 07:39 PM, said:

 horse power is the measurment of the upper limit of the torque produced by the piston engines and converted into thrust by its propeller. . 
in teir 7+ jet engines its called "lbs/kg of thrust". When a fancy consumable, pilot skill, or piece of equipment "improves thrust/acceleration" it is the 'Horsepower' or 'lbs/kgs of thrust'  that is effected.

Either one is the raw acceleration of the engine (up to its maximum advisable mechanical rating) before all the things that slow you down take effect.
things like the altitude the engine is in, the weight of the engine, the air frame its bolted onto (and by extension everything else attached to the airframe) and the aerodynamic drag of that whole pile of connected parts.    Factor it all together and the left over acceleration is the stuff that makes the plane move fast enough through the air to gain lifting force from the wings. How quickly you get to that limit is what your Rate of Climb value is in the Altitude rating (more is better)

When you reach that limit where the engine cant push any faster because the aerodynamic drag from the plane itself is slowing you down due to air friction.
and the altitude begins to suck away engine power from lack of air  
This is how you get the Max Cruise Speed at optimal altitude. 

That aerodynamic drag also determines the ultimate limit of what will be your Max Dive Speed (and how a Polished skin does its magic)

Now it is mechanically possible in most cases to exceed that thrust value. Doing so for any length of time is so bad that it requires a [edited]ton of maintenance before it can be safely flown again. Doing so for an extended period of time will destroy your engine. Due to the oil overheating and breaking down into glue causing the engine to seize up.
Or for jets certain parts that are supposed to stay hard getting so hot that they soften. Then deform. and then there is a usually catastophic failure resulting in a flameout or explosion...
This is where we get the phrase Emergency/Full Military Power. as in "do not exceed this limit for more than x seconds unless you are being shot at."

This is where your Max Boost speed comes from. Also why some planes get more boost than others. And yes there are hidden stats for determining just how much time it takes to get to that top emergercy speed. Shorter is better. If you only have an 8 second boost then getting to that top speed in half a second is way better than getting there in 2 seconds. This is where the all the magic happens with Engine Booster equipment slots.

  


On the F-15s the max boost switch, called V-Max, was under a safety cover that was safety wired closed.  Why?  Well it seems that the fighter jocks would get in trouble for using V-Max so the safety wire on the switch was to indicate when it was used regardless of what the pilot claimed.  Of course, some of them would have a stash of safety wire so they could redo the switch to avoid detection.

 

There were 5 levels of afterburner on the F-15.  It was called V-Max because it was the highest level of afterburner.  It required removal and tear down inspection of the engines.  Very expensive and time consuming, so to be avoided unless under actual wartime conditions.  By cheating this system, the cheaters were endangering the lives of subsequent pilots and a multi-million dollar aircraft. 

 

But they were 'Officers and Gentlemen' by act of Congress.  It only appeared to be every man for himself to the maintenance troops.  :sceptic:

 

 


MSgt, USAF, (ret)




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