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desert786 #21 Posted 03 July 2019 - 03:32 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 02 July 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

I've seen you use the tactic before many times, so.... interesting self burn there?

the queen of split tiering. except this individual isn't quite smart enough to understand the concept and drags poor FJ 1 players into tier ten battles over and over again. talk about toxic gameplay



SpiritFoxMY #22 Posted 03 July 2019 - 03:53 AM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 03 July 2019 - 05:08 AM, said:

I've seen you use the tactic before many times, so.... interesting self burn there?

 

See: farming Airplane Blueprint Missions. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need more WnR


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GeorgePatton #23 Posted 03 July 2019 - 05:59 AM

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View PostMercsn, on 02 July 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

I was wondering about the few times I've seen split tier flights in matches.  I thought the players were just goobs because I hadn't realized that at some point (probably in my 4 or 5 year absence between beta and 2.0), that WG change the MM so that split tier is now an "authorized" match-making exploit. 

 

It didn't work.  The times I saw it, I was against them and victorious.   So, I still think it really was goobs and not actually people trying to exploit.  Although, I will keep it in mind the next time I run into somebody who says they've been on a losing streak.  I now know I can uptier with them and have a better chance of carrying them to a win. 

 

Incidentally, I may have accidentally done this (as the lower tier) with a random guy I flighted with who must've known about the exploit.  I was trying to work on a tier 5 (or maybe just grinding creds on one of my tier 5 premiums) and he went into tier 6 and asked if I was ok with being lower tier.  Sure, I say, "tier has never scared me, in this game."  But, at that time, I didn't realize I was guaranteed to NOT see tier 7 while he was in his tier 6. 

 

LULZ, WG. 

 

 

In my opinion, the issue with split-tiering is that it's usually practiced by seal-clubbers. The players who can't hang with the big boys so they get a squeaker to join them and give them a free pass onto the playground with the newbs. This is bad for two reasons - it hurts new players who are constantly being up-tiered because MM will mostly put together matches to favor the flight (go ahead and keep track while you're playing solo, anyone who wants to disagree with me) and two, it teaches the new players to see these players as 'good' because they have 7 kill markers on a 'specialized' plane (which the new players don't realize does not mean it's a god-plane...). Against a solo decent to good player? Those guys don't have a better win rate. But that's the problem, this behavior happens mostly where the good players aren't playing because y'know... new players and not wanting to seal club.

 

 

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crzyhawk #24 Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:58 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 03 July 2019 - 05:59 AM, said:

 

In my opinion, the issue with split-tiering is that it's usually practiced by seal-clubbers. The players who can't hang with the big boys so they get a squeaker to join them and give them a free pass onto the playground with the newbs. This is bad for two reasons - it hurts new players who are constantly being up-tiered because MM will mostly put together matches to favor the flight (go ahead and keep track while you're playing solo, anyone who wants to disagree with me) and two, it teaches the new players to see these players as 'good' because they have 7 kill markers on a 'specialized' plane (which the new players don't realize does not mean it's a god-plane...). Against a solo decent to good player? Those guys don't have a better win rate. But that's the problem, this behavior happens mostly where the good players aren't playing because y'know... new players and not wanting to seal club.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


I do see a lot of 109B / Spitfire I combos.


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desert786 #25 Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:33 PM

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bully mentality

wylleEcoyote #26 Posted 04 July 2019 - 09:35 AM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 03 July 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:


I do see a lot of 109B / Spitfire I combos.


what on earth would the point of that be?
Sure the 109B is an amazing tier 4 but even with it fully tricked out its player has to put in a bit of work to be keep up with tier 5.


Is it someone with a 9 point pilot and a maxed out turn build 109B telling some noob "just grind to the spitfire and try to keep up"  ?

By the same token teir 5 is chock full of planes that are if not Overpowered then potent enough to not sweat too hard in tier 6 when played well. and tier 6 has a few under rated aircraft that dont necessarily do well upteired. 
at that point the trick is getting a pair of craft that are sufficiently similar that they fly well together.
like for example a specialist P-38F anchoring a Mustang through its stock grind.

we could bump it up level and see ... oh i dunno 
Trikke and SpiritFox flying in a Fw190 Flight.
Spirit anchoring in an A-5 while Trikke keeps grinding that grind in Dora the Exploder.
Seems pretty fair to me... and a fun to watch video. #I'mJustSayin

But as interesting as all that is i would rather have a wing man in the same plane that i am in. Even if we are gonna be bottom tier.  It so much easier that way to coordinate movement, teamwork and focus down them which needs killing.
 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 04 July 2019 - 09:47 AM.

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58 

USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once. France: SE 100
Germany: Fw 56, He 112, Fw 190 A-5, Bf 109 B, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Me209 A, Do 17 Z, Do 217 M, Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2,  Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1,


SpiritFoxMY #27 Posted 04 July 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 04 July 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:


what on earth would the point of that be?
Sure the 109B is an amazing tier 4 but even with it fully tricked out its player has to put in a bit of work to be keep up with tier 5.


Is it someone with a 9 point pilot and a maxed out turn build 109B telling some noob "just grind to the spitfire and try to keep up"  ?

By the same token teir 5 is chock full of planes that are if not Overpowered then potent enough to not sweat too hard in tier 6 when played well. and tier 6 has a few under rated aircraft that dont necessarily do well upteired. 
at that point the trick is getting a pair of craft that are sufficiently similar that they fly well together.
like for example a specialist P-38F anchoring a Mustang through its stock grind.

we could bump it up level and see ... oh i dunno 
Trikke and SpiritFox flying in a Fw190 Flight.
Spirit anchoring in an A-5 while Trikke keeps grinding that grind in Dora the Exploder.
Seems pretty fair to me... and a fun to watch video. #I'mJustSayin

But as interesting as all that is i would rather have a wing man in the same plane that i am in. Even if we are gonna be bottom tier.  It so much easier that way to coordinate movement, teamwork and focus down them which needs killing.
 

 

Because a fully Specialized Spitfire I with a full set of 487 Ultimate Equipment is literally unbeatable by anyone in a tier 4 while the 109B can clean up anyone left. I have had the misfortune to run into a double Spitfire I specialist flight in a 109B and I can say without a shadow of doubt that it is physically impossible to beat a them head on, even with a fully Specialized, ultimate equipment 109B. They turn, climb, accelerate and just straight up fly faster while keeping up in a dive. And have tier 6 guns in a tier 5 plane in the form of a pair of Hispano MkVs that are actually more powerful than the same tier MG/FFs the Germans have. 

 

What crzyhawk is describing is a classic stat-padding flight. The Spitfire I is basically overpowered in tier 5 (just compare its stats with the tier 6 Spitfire V). The 109B is extremely strong at tier 4. As long as the Spitfire pilot is capable of rubbing two brain cells together, he will just walk over any tier 4 players without blinking and can give a tier 5 player something to chew on. If they were REALLY toxic, they could just roll out a tier 4 Soviet GAA and there would literally be no stopping them.

 

Anyway, if you want to watch a double-190 flight, I have this old rough cut video of three back to back double A-5 games with me and Reitousair just bumming around and talking crap.

 

I, unfortunately, did not record a battle where mnbv_fockewulf and I shat on a split-tiering I-220/Yak-9 scumbag flight in our double A-5s since it was just them being really, really bad, 


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SkyWolf__WM #28 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:37 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 03 July 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

 

In my opinion, the issue with split-tiering is that it's usually practiced by seal-clubbers. The players who can't hang with the big boys so they get a squeaker to join them and give them a free pass onto the playground with the newbs. This is bad for two reasons - it hurts new players who are constantly being up-tiered because MM will mostly put together matches to favor the flight (go ahead and keep track while you're playing solo, anyone who wants to disagree with me) and two, it teaches the new players to see these players as 'good' because they have 7 kill markers on a 'specialized' plane (which the new players don't realize does not mean it's a god-plane...). Against a solo decent to good player? Those guys don't have a better win rate. But that's the problem, this behavior happens mostly where the good players aren't playing because y'know... new players and not wanting to seal club.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

 

You know, I just can't see it from your perspective. :amazed: Making sure that you have at least 1 plane in the highest tier does not seem like seal clubbing to me. I almost never fly below tier 4 except when

I am trying to figure out how to fly bombers without being a boat anchor, Flying that PV 3 with Rudolf the Red Nose Hawker, or occasionally flying that little tier 2 monoplane (maybe the XP-33?)  that was gifted to us. I pretty

much find flying below tier 4 a no no. In that last period thing contest we had there were a few pilots in 1-2 that should not have been there. But I don't see a tier 6-7 flight as a problem. I mostly fly solo because

even though some of my clan mates (GW_S)  and some HVAR and OWSS guys don't seem to mind flighting up with me regardless of my 53. something win %.

:honoring:


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trikke #29 Posted 05 July 2019 - 09:45 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 04 July 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

Spirit anchoring in an A-5 while Trikke keeps grinding that grind in Dora the Exploder.


that ship = sailed


I don't even glance at it in the hangar anymore


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

wylleEcoyote #30 Posted 06 July 2019 - 02:05 AM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 July 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:


that ship = sailed


I don't even glance at it in the hangar anymore



:(
< cue up the sad_violin>
<presses F>


Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58 

USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once. France: SE 100
Germany: Fw 56, He 112, Fw 190 A-5, Bf 109 B, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Me209 A, Do 17 Z, Do 217 M, Hs 123, Ha 137, Hs 129 A, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2,  Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1,


CorvusCorvax #31 Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:03 PM

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View Posttrikke, on 05 July 2019 - 09:45 PM, said:


that ship = sailed


I don't even glance at it in the hangar anymore


That's too bad.  The Dora is a great plane.



trikke #32 Posted 06 July 2019 - 07:41 PM

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GeorgePatton #33 Posted 06 July 2019 - 08:56 PM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 04 July 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

You know, I just can't see it from your perspective. :amazed: Making sure that you have at least 1 plane in the highest tier does not seem like seal clubbing to me. I almost never fly below tier 4 except when

I am trying to figure out how to fly bombers without being a boat anchor, Flying that PV 3 with Rudolf the Red Nose Hawker, or occasionally flying that little tier 2 monoplane (maybe the XP-33?)  that was gifted to us. I pretty

much find flying below tier 4 a no no. In that last period thing contest we had there were a few pilots in 1-2 that should not have been there. But I don't see a tier 6-7 flight as a problem. I mostly fly solo because

even though some of my clan mates (GW_S)  and some HVAR and OWSS guys don't seem to mind flighting up with me regardless of my 53. something win %.

:honoring:

 

It's that "Making sure that you have at least 1 plane in the highest tier," that is either seal-clubbing or stat padding (depending on which tier this is done in). There is no way a single player is able to guarantee having a top-tier in the battle. When you see spitfires doing a split-tier with 6-7 kill markers you know they're seal-clubbing. They take a tier 4 along with their tier 5 to ensure they never run into the decent/average players at tier 6 because they know they'll get stomped. It ensures that the tier 5 spit always has tier 4s to shoot at rather than being on the bottom of the pile and having to fight only 5s and 6s.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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SkyWolf__WM #34 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 06 July 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

 

It's that "Making sure that you have at least 1 plane in the highest tier," that is either seal-clubbing or stat padding (depending on which tier this is done in). There is no way a single player is able to guarantee having a top-tier in the battle. When you see spitfires doing a split-tier with 6-7 kill markers you know they're seal-clubbing. They take a tier 4 along with their tier 5 to ensure they never run into the decent/average players at tier 6 because they know they'll get stomped. It ensures that the tier 5 spit always has tier 4s to shoot at rather than being on the bottom of the pile and having to fight only 5s and 6s.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

I hadn't looked at it that way. I kinda see what you mean, I just don't agree with it. I don't see why two people trying to make sure that one guy/gal isn't out tiered is "exploiting" the game. :amazed:

I don't seem to be bothered by split tiered people as much as I am annoyed at having BOTH people out tiered.  :(  Dunno. It just doesn't bug me as much.  :honoring:


Edited by SkyWolf__WM, 07 July 2019 - 01:25 PM.

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Mercsn #35 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:16 PM

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View PostSkyWolf__WM, on 06 July 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

 

I hadn't looked at it that way. I kinda see what you mean, I just don't agree with it. I don't see why two people trying to make sure that one guy/gal isn't out tiered is "exploiting" the game. :amazed:

I don't seem to be bothered by split tiered people as much as I am annoying as having BOTH people ou tiered.  :(  Dunno. It just doesn't bug me as much.  :honoring:

 

I don't think seal clubbing is the right term.  I mean, if you're in anything over tier 5, the seal's should be smart enough to stay away from man.  That said, it is definitely and exploit of the match making system (albeit, an apparently authorized one #RussianLogic).  

 

Match making is supposed to be random.  It is for any players who are solo or in a non split-tiered flight.  If you are in a flight of a 5 and 6 and there is a flight of two 5s, you are going to match with them and you are going to have a tier advantage.  You are going to have that advantage because you removed the randomness from it.  You might end up against a flight of two 6s, but you've planned for that in your aircraft selection AND, I would say it's less likely because, since you have a tier 5 in your flight, the MM will likely place the two 5s with you and (if there is also a flight of two 6s), it will place them in a tier 6, 7 match to fill both matches faster.

 

So, it's definitely an exploit and they should allow that lower tier, tier 5, fighter to be pulled into a tier 7 match.  That would keep the MM random and wipe out the exploit without adding 3 tier matches for everyone. It's just there because #LadyManager is an idiot who can't do good game design to save her job (what she can do to keep her job so long, I won't speculate on).


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

SkyWolf__WM #36 Posted 07 July 2019 - 01:31 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 07 July 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

 

I don't think seal clubbing is the right term.  I mean, if you're in anything over tier 5, the seal's should be smart enough to stay away from man.  That said, it is definitely and exploit of the match making system (albeit, an apparently authorized one #RussianLogic).  

 

Match making is supposed to be random.  It is for any players who are solo or in a non split-tiered flight.  If you are in a flight of a 5 and 6 and there is a flight of two 5s, you are going to match with them and you are going to have a tier advantage.  You are going to have that advantage because you removed the randomness from it.  You might end up against a flight of two 6s, but you've planned for that in your aircraft selection AND, I would say it's less likely because, since you have a tier 5 in your flight, the MM will likely place the two 5s with you and (if there is also a flight of two 6s), it will place them in a tier 6, 7 match to fill both matches faster.

 

So, it's definitely an exploit and they should allow that lower tier, tier 5, fighter to be pulled into a tier 7 match.  That would keep the MM random and wipe out the exploit without adding 3 tier matches for everyone. It's just there because #LadyManager is an idiot who can't do good game design to save her job (what she can do to keep her job so long, I won't speculate on).

 

One good thing about being a stroked out, brain dead, 5150 guy is that I have a pretty simplistic view on the game. I guess that I just don't care. I split tier infrequently so I don't worry about it.

Is Blindfold the "Lady Manager" that you keep referring to?


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