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crzyhawk #1 Posted 29 June 2019 - 07:28 PM

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How does flighting work with different tier aircraft?  I saw a flight earlier today with a specialist 109E (V) and a specialist 109F (VI).  How does the match maker count them?  Do they get both counted as a T6 or are they locked into a T5/6 game?

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Germany: FW-56; AR-67; BF-109B; BF-109E-3; Spitfire Mk V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3 (4); P-40 M-105 | Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki-61 | China: Hawk II; Ki-43c; Tomahawk IIb; P-51K |

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GeorgePatton #2 Posted 29 June 2019 - 07:41 PM

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They're locked into a 5/6 game, thus ensuring the higher tier aircraft is 'top tier' in every game. That's why there's some debate about whether this kind of flight should be allowed or not.

 

 

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Chuck_norris10 #3 Posted 29 June 2019 - 08:30 PM

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https://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/matchmaker-basics-tiers-classes-and-bots/

 

Flights

The matchmaker selects a battle tier for flights based on the highest tier of the two aircraft in a flight.

Once the matchmaker starts filling rooms, it picks relevant flights from the queue first and spreads them among rooms in pairs (one flight per team). If there is only one flight in the queue, the matchmaker balances it with a pair of single aircraft of the same tier and class in the second team.


 

 


 

crzyhawk #4 Posted 29 June 2019 - 08:31 PM

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I see.  I can definitely see why it could be problematic, especially for seal clubbers. 

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USA: XP-31; F11C-2; YP-29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; P-39N | UK: Goldfinch; Hurricane Mk I; Venom; Spitfire Mk I; Spitfire Mk Ia; Mustang Mk Ia; Spitfire Mk XIV |

Germany: FW-56; AR-67; BF-109B; BF-109E-3; Spitfire Mk V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3 (4); P-40 M-105 | Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki-61 | China: Hawk II; Ki-43c; Tomahawk IIb; P-51K |

Europe: B-534; S-199


Chuck_norris10 #5 Posted 29 June 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 29 June 2019 - 01:31 PM, said:

I see.  I can definitely see why it could be problematic, especially for seal clubbers. 

The developer calls seals bambis on that dev's blog and another thing they said that i'm not clear on is that a flight of 2 counts as a single entity so does that mean if it needs 4 humans to fill a battle that a flight of 2 counts as only one in the 4?

I'm still trying to digest the blog I linked to.

What a lot of work just to make the game playable with a low population which they wouldn't have to do if they advertised the game when it came out instead of relying on tankers to fill the playerbase.

 


 

 


 

GeorgePatton #6 Posted 29 June 2019 - 09:12 PM

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View PostChuck_norris10, on 29 June 2019 - 03:30 PM, said:

https://blog.worldofwarplanes.com/mechanics/matchmaker-basics-tiers-classes-and-bots/

 

Flights

The matchmaker selects a battle tier for flights based on the highest tier of the two aircraft in a flight.

Once the matchmaker starts filling rooms, it picks relevant flights from the queue first and spreads them among rooms in pairs (one flight per team). If there is only one flight in the queue, the matchmaker balances it with a pair of single aircraft of the same tier and class in the second team.


This information is not accurate. The matchmaker selects a battle for flights by always putting the flight in a split-tiered match with the top-tier plane always being top-tier. A tier 5/6 flight will never see a tier 7 battle.

 

 

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Chuck_norris10 #7 Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:59 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 29 June 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:


This information is not accurate. The matchmaker selects a battle for flights by always putting the flight in a split-tiered match with the top-tier plane always being top-tier. A tier 5/6 flight will never see a tier 7 battle.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

That's from the developer and their blog so it's their quote,not mine.


 

 


 

blindfoId #8 Posted 01 July 2019 - 09:21 AM

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It's really outdated information. MM system works differently.



desert786 #9 Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:28 PM

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first thing you need to ask yourself to split tier is; am I a crap player? if yes then split tier. only trash relies on exploits to gain the upper hand.

 

 


Edited by desert786, 01 July 2019 - 11:28 PM.


Captain_Underpants53 #10 Posted 02 July 2019 - 04:08 AM

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View Postdesert786, on 01 July 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

first thing you need to ask yourself to split tier is; am I a crap player? if yes then split tier. only trash relies on exploits to gain the upper hand.

 

 


Way to throw some shade.  Nice insults, indeed.  It is NOT an exploit, no more than ramming is.  The Devs built it into the game on purpose.


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SpiritFoxMY #11 Posted 02 July 2019 - 04:21 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 02 July 2019 - 12:08 PM, said:


Way to throw some shade.  Nice insults, indeed.  It is NOT an exploit, no more than ramming is.  The Devs built it into the game on purpose.

 

Here's my issue with this reasoning - ramming does not hand an unfair advantage to anyone (except maybe spits but that's a problem with the plane rather than the tactic). If you get rammed it is almost always as much your fault as it is the rammer.

 

Now picture, if you will, a Ki102/B32 flight. Both of whom are fully specialized, on Road to Rome or Alpine Gambit. And you are in a Fw190 A-5 with an Il-2(t) as your teammate. What *exactly* are you supposed to do about that?

 

I'm not asking this as a theoretical question BTW - I've run into this exact situation with this exact flight combo. 


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crzyhawk #12 Posted 02 July 2019 - 04:23 AM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 02 July 2019 - 04:08 AM, said:


Way to throw some shade.  Nice insults, indeed.  It is NOT an exploit, no more than ramming is.  The Devs built it into the game on purpose.

 

It's OK.  I am a pretty crap player and I admit to taking advantage this.  My buddy just started last week so I've been anchoring him so he's top tier.  We're still getting farmed, but it's all good.  I'd rather he have fun while he's learning so he's more likely to stick around.  Whether it's an exploit or not, it /is/ a lame thing to do.  I'll own it, and I do not feel ashamed for trying to make my friend have the best experience he can while he learns.


Specialist A/C

USA: XP-31; F11C-2; YP-29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; P-39N | UK: Goldfinch; Hurricane Mk I; Venom; Spitfire Mk I; Spitfire Mk Ia; Mustang Mk Ia; Spitfire Mk XIV |

Germany: FW-56; AR-67; BF-109B; BF-109E-3; Spitfire Mk V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3 (4); P-40 M-105 | Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki-61 | China: Hawk II; Ki-43c; Tomahawk IIb; P-51K |

Europe: B-534; S-199


SpiritFoxMY #13 Posted 02 July 2019 - 04:43 AM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 02 July 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

It's OK.  I am a pretty crap player and I admit to taking advantage this.  My buddy just started last week so I've been anchoring him so he's top tier.  We're still getting farmed, but it's all good.  I'd rather he have fun while he's learning so he's more likely to stick around.  Whether it's an exploit or not, it /is/ a lame thing to do.  I'll own it, and I do not feel ashamed for trying to make my friend have the best experience he can while he learns.

 

I don't personally hold it against people who are split tiering for specific reasons. I've done it myself, whether to try and farm an accomplishment as part of an airplane grind or because either I or my flightmate is not confident in our ability to contribute to the battle (because we're in a bad plane or in a new one we're just rolling out for the first time).

 

It's the WnR farmers and people who refuse to acknowledge that split-tiering is fundamentally an exploit to lock in a structural advantage for the splitters that get my goat. There's a reason I use it for ridiculous tasks or for ridiculous airplanes - it fundamentally grants an advantage to the higher tier player who can then carry the lower tier player without having to worry about planes a tier higher. That's why you have people Split Tiering in a Specialist I-220 anchored by a Specialist Ki102. (GOD that was a toxic pair) 


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Captain_Underpants53 #14 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:57 AM

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I have been victimized by flights, also.  I haven't seen it in awhile but, often enough, I and 11 bots would find ourselves facing a flight and 10 bots.  That bothers me more than the split tier flights.  Facing a flight with 2 heavies or a heavy and another bomber killer type while all alone usually does not end well (for me).  Last week I had a battle where all 5 red players and 4 of the blue players were higher tier than me.   Unfair?  It felt like it to me.

 

On the other hand, I have been in battles where there are two lovely mining plants and my only opponent is in a fighter.  I consider it all part of the luck of the draw.


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Jack_Pelter_The_Chicken #15 Posted 02 July 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View Postcrzyhawk, on 02 July 2019 - 04:23 AM, said:

 

It's OK.  I am a pretty crap player and I admit to taking advantage this.  My buddy just started last week so I've been anchoring him so he's top tier.  We're still getting farmed, but it's all good.  I'd rather he have fun while he's learning so he's more likely to stick around.  Whether it's an exploit or not, it /is/ a lame thing to do.  I'll own it, and I do not feel ashamed for trying to make my friend have the best experience he can while he learns.

nonsense,i would class you as a good pilot!



desert786 #16 Posted 02 July 2019 - 08:32 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 02 July 2019 - 03:57 AM, said:

I have been victimized by flights, also.  I haven't seen it in awhile but, often enough, I and 11 bots would find ourselves facing a flight and 10 bots.  That bothers me more than the split tier flights.

2v1s are no longer possible, its been that way for about 6 months.there is always the possibility of the other player on your team quiting/disconnecting, but no longer MM's fault.

 

their are quite a few, ahem "good" players out their, a few of them are quite vocal members of this here forum. that feel the only way they can dominate is by exploiting a flaw in the MM. remember NO OTHER WG produce allows for this to happen for MM balancing reasons. I stand by what i said, people who rely on an exploit are trash. not as in bad player, just trash in general.


Edited by desert786, 02 July 2019 - 08:33 PM.


Stygian_Alchemist #17 Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:08 PM

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View Postdesert786, on 02 July 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

2v1s are no longer possible, its been that way for about 6 months.there is always the possibility of the other player on your team quiting/disconnecting, but no longer MM's fault.

 

their are quite a few, ahem "good" players out their, a few of them are quite vocal members of this here forum. that feel the only way they can dominate is by exploiting a flaw in the MM. remember NO OTHER WG produce allows for this to happen for MM balancing reasons. I stand by what i said, people who rely on an exploit are trash. not as in bad player, just trash in general.

I've seen you use the tactic before many times, so.... interesting self burn there?



CorvusCorvax #18 Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 02 July 2019 - 04:43 AM, said:

 

I don't personally hold it against people who are split tiering for specific reasons. I've done it myself, whether to try and farm an accomplishment as part of an airplane grind or because either I or my flightmate is not confident in our ability to contribute to the battle (because we're in a bad plane or in a new one we're just rolling out for the first time).

 

It's the WnR farmers and people who refuse to acknowledge that split-tiering is fundamentally an exploit to lock in a structural advantage for the splitters that get my goat. There's a reason I use it for ridiculous tasks or for ridiculous airplanes - it fundamentally grants an advantage to the higher tier player who can then carry the lower tier player without having to worry about planes a tier higher. That's why you have people Split Tiering in a Specialist I-220 anchored by a Specialist Ki102. (GOD that was a toxic pair) 

As an IL-8 player who recruits T6 players to help me, I don't feel I'm exploiting anyone in a way that is toxic.  Getting my tail kicked all the time while flying solo as a T7 player always in a T8/T7 battle feels pretty terrible.  Am I wrong in trying to get at least a win so I can get past this stupid slow AF aircraft?  Yes, yes, I am exploiting the MM to my advantage.  Am I engaging in a toxic behavior to skew the win stats in my favor?  No.

View PostWhite_Widow18, on 02 July 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

I've seen you use the tactic before many times, so.... interesting self burn there?

 So, more thread derailing, from the person who is so vocally against thread derailing.  Hmmmm....



Mercsn #19 Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:54 PM

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I was wondering about the few times I've seen split tier flights in matches.  I thought the players were just goobs because I hadn't realized that at some point (probably in my 4 or 5 year absence between beta and 2.0), that WG change the MM so that split tier is now an "authorized" match-making exploit. 

 

It didn't work.  The times I saw it, I was against them and victorious.   So, I still think it really was goobs and not actually people trying to exploit.  Although, I will keep it in mind the next time I run into somebody who says they've been on a losing streak.  I now know I can uptier with them and have a better chance of carrying them to a win. 

 

Incidentally, I may have accidentally done this (as the lower tier) with a random guy I flighted with who must've known about the exploit.  I was trying to work on a tier 5 (or maybe just grinding creds on one of my tier 5 premiums) and he went into tier 6 and asked if I was ok with being lower tier.  Sure, I say, "tier has never scared me, in this game."  But, at that time, I didn't realize I was guaranteed to NOT see tier 7 while he was in his tier 6. 

 

LULZ, WG. 

 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

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The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

crzyhawk #20 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:05 PM

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Oddly enough, unlike warships, this game will let you flight with more than a 1 tier difference.  When that happens, it treats the lower person differently somehow.  My buddy was in his T3 British plane and I was flying my XP-31 with him.  He didn't tell me that he unlocked his T4 and switched, so I just hit battle and found myself against specialized BF-109Bs and Hurricane Ia's.  Is that Hurri an event plane btw?  I want one, I like Battle of Britian planes.  I guess more importantly, does it bring anything to the table that my tech tree Hurricane I does not?

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USA: XP-31; F11C-2; YP-29; F2A-1; XF4F-3; Hawk 81-A1; P-39N | UK: Goldfinch; Hurricane Mk I; Venom; Spitfire Mk I; Spitfire Mk Ia; Mustang Mk Ia; Spitfire Mk XIV |

Germany: FW-56; AR-67; BF-109B; BF-109E-3; Spitfire Mk V DB605 | USSR: LaGG 3 (4); P-40 M-105 | Japan: A6M2; A6M3 (exp); Ki-61 | China: Hawk II; Ki-43c; Tomahawk IIb; P-51K |

Europe: B-534; S-199





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