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Here's one I hadn't seen before.

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CorvusCorvax #1 Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:39 PM

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Map:  Plateau.  Two plants, two command centers, central garrison.  Four humans, mixed T10/T9.  Other team humans: Ta-183, Su-10.  My human mate was flying a Javelin, and me in an Me P.1092.

 

The red humans scored 8k (Su-10) and 4.5k (Ta-183) points respectively.  My Javelin partner scored 11k points and I got 17k points, 4 tokens (red planes kept flying in front of me with most of their health gone, I didn't do anything really heroic.)  In the end, I couldn't defend both a plant and a CC, and losing the plant cost the battle.

 

But the kicker was this - the highest scorer on the red team was a bot IL-40, with 13k points.  We lost, 800-784, but I was pretty shocked to see a bot GAA score that high.  I don't recall ever seeing a bot score higher than 10k points, and get four chevrons to boot. 

 

Maybe hamhockjones was onto something?  ;)



trikke #2 Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:02 PM

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I appreciate Persha's continued development of bot AI


high tier bots are already more deadly than I am, for the most part

 

It doesn't look like it's ever going to be a popular human game title, so it's nice that bots will have something interesting to play after 'work'


 


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SpiritFoxMY #3 Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:56 PM

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I faced a 16k IL-40P bot once. Needless to say I lost a 19kpp Ace, Marseilles, Hero of the Sky and a dozen after awards match. This goddamn bot one-passed EVERY CAP IT ATTACKED. I just couldn't keep up, even though the enemy player scored 4k points.

***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


Booze_Morgan #4 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:05 PM

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I have seen they are much like human GA pilots in that if you leave them alone they do some massive damage.  Kinda good to see, to me, that bots have become more than they were before.

 

Booze


Edited by Booze_Morgan, 24 June 2019 - 07:36 PM.

Spoiler

 


CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:16 PM

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View PostSpiritFoxMY, on 24 June 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

I faced a 16k IL-40P bot once. Needless to say I lost a 19kpp Ace, Marseilles, Hero of the Sky and a dozen after awards match. This goddamn bot one-passed EVERY CAP IT ATTACKED. I just couldn't keep up, even though the enemy player scored 4k points.

I am glad to see I am not the only one that has experienced this.  It also gives me hope for my continued progress in the Soviet GAA line.  (I will admit, I am really considering hard rage-XPing past the last of the IL-8.  But I will not.)

 

I had never seen a bot so totally dominate the red team scoring in the high tiers.  I've seen bots do well in the mid and low tiers, but on a low-human-population game, one could expect that there will be times when the tier advancement outstrips skill.  But at T9/10?  I did not expect that at all.

 

Thanks for the validation.



Chuck_norris10 #6 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:18 PM

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 "All hail the robot overlords"

 

 


 

CorvusCorvax #7 Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:33 PM

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View PostChuck_norris10, on 24 June 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

 "All hail the robot overlords"

Yup.  I have had some T10 battles where I was matched up against one other human, and the rest bots - the bots were all so stupid that it was, in essence, a 1 v. 1 battle.  THose ones are actually fun - you pit your tactical and strategic skill against your opponent.  But when the bots take over, and we are mere participants in their game?  Not as much fun.

 

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nwlxn12 #8 Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:12 PM

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As HHJ used to say...these are the matches that are predetermined.

_Bruiser_ #9 Posted 24 June 2019 - 06:37 PM

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i hear rumors of a fix for MM, a fix that fits right along with HHJ. All wg titles want ppl in the 50% wr range, so expect to see some strange stuff soon if u arent in that range.

Stygian_Alchemist #10 Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:05 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 09 April 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Lately, there has been a lot of in-game chatter about how the only reason one or the other side won/lost is due to how the bots played.  When looking at the after-game stats, it doesn't really look like either side had any kind of bot advantage, but one side or the other had a human advantage.

 

I was playing my T9 Batwing the other day.  I got into a battle where on the other team, a well-known GAA pilot was flying a T9 GAA.  This was an asymmetric Albion map with two plants on one side, and two garrisons on the other, with a central airbase.  I played well, but ultimately we lost because the things I did well were not the things that needed to be done, when they needed to be done.

 

My first good decision was going to the far Plant, and helping my GAA take it by shooting down the red GAA bot and his red MRF "helper."  This led to my first bad decision - I stuck around, waiting for the human GAA to show up.  I waited 20 seconds before figuring out that I should have IMMEDIATELY gone to the other plant.  I can influence which targets my bots will attack by damaging parts of them.  I could have spent that 20 seconds blowing up all the unarmored non-flak parts of the plant, then moving on to do the thing I should have done in the beginning.

 

With two plants, we would have had a comfortable lead in points production.  I just need to prowl and make sure the red GAA don't take the plants back.  But my delay caused us to hold only one plant, while the red team went about taking the other three non-plant sectors.  By the time I got over to the other plant, it was being attacked by two GAA, one bot, one human.  and that human was concentrating on shooting down my team's GAA.  If I had been smarter, and made the right decision, I could have got there and tied him up while my GAA did the hard work.

 

So, I have two targets, and decided (poorly, again) to work on them both at the same time, working the overheat cycle on my 20mm cannon.  What I should have done is just work on the human, and worry about the bot GAA later.  The bot GAA was zero threat to me, but the human knew his stuff.   If I had concentrated on the human, I would not have put my plane in a position to have him hose me down with 30mm and blow me up, flipping the plant to red.  If I had instead got the human first, then the other GAA, It would have been half way to blue.

 

My final bad decision was to go and finish the human GAA off before the squall line.  I should have waited another ten seconds to begin my attack run.

 

As it was, he got to respawn, and I got to get triple-teamed by red bots.  

 

Even though I finished on my team far and away the top points getter, and did some stuff really well, I made a series of costly errors that denied us even the opportunity at a victory.  Both team's bots did about the same.  But I chose poorly and was rewarded properly for my poor choices.

 

The bots are not the reason that you win or lose.  The choices that you make or don't have much more influence.


Just thought I'd leave this here to remind everyone that Corvus has repeatedly carped on about how its not the bots. Guess he made a bunch of poor decisions, based on his own theories.


Edited by White_Widow18, 24 June 2019 - 08:23 PM.


CorvusCorvax #11 Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:22 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 24 June 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:


Just thought I'd leave this here to remind everyone that Corvus has repeatedly carped on about how its not the bots. Guess he made a bunch of poor decisions, based on his own theories.

I'm sorry that your hurt feelings make you follow me around and comment on stuff.  Maybe you'll get over your feelings of inadequacy someday.

 

If you can read (which seems doubtful), you'll pick out where I admit the mistake I made.  But that would require not only reading, but also comprehending.  But hey, here's yet ANOTHER thread you're attempting to derail.  And your response will undoubtedly be not merely tangential (like the one to which I'm replying) but will be completely OT.  Of course you would also have to be able to understand the term "much more" and the implications, but that's not important to your butthurt.

 

Wet_Weirdo69 says "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!"



losttwo #12 Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:25 PM

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I have seen bots take the #1 spot with high scores plenty of times.

The bot algorithms are programmed to attain the highest score possible.

Sort of like the ancient BASIC programing if " If -then " loops.

 

It really is like a Computer Chess game played at higher levels than level 1.

 

As humans we can always look back at a replay and play the guessing game of

"If I would have done this we would have won" or " if I had not turned left I would not have got shot down " .

We could do the same thing with human versus human game.

However with the bots it would be more accurate due to PROGRAMMING rather than INTUITION.

 

I would gander a guess that the algorithm is designed for the bots to asses the highest value threat

at a certain range.

Threat not being based on player skill but target value.

Hence it seems like some bots head hunt players.

A heavy fighter priority is bombers.

 



losttwo #13 Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:27 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 24 June 2019 - 04:22 PM, said:

 

Wet_Weirdo69 says "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!"

:teethhappy::teethhappy::medal::popcorn:

Right on, now buy me another cup of coffee...PLEASE.



Chuck_norris10 #14 Posted 24 June 2019 - 10:33 PM

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CorvusCorvax #15 Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:26 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 24 June 2019 - 11:11 PM, mumbled:

Funny.. can't handle your own words thrown in your face...
 

Funny that my own words described exactly what I said here.

 

If you're going to try and be clever, you should actually, you know, be clever.



Stygian_Alchemist #16 Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:29 PM

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Perhaps you forgot the title of the post this is from. A title you wrote as your thesis statement.

I didn't.

Your psychosis, projection, etc. seem to know no bounds though.

CorvusCorvax #17 Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:38 PM

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View Postlosttwo, on 24 June 2019 - 09:25 PM, said:

I have seen bots take the #1 spot with high scores plenty of times.

The bot algorithms are programmed to attain the highest score possible.

Sort of like the ancient BASIC programing if " If -then " loops.

 

It really is like a Computer Chess game played at higher levels than level 1.

 

As humans we can always look back at a replay and play the guessing game of

"If I would have done this we would have won" or " if I had not turned left I would not have got shot down " .

We could do the same thing with human versus human game.

However with the bots it would be more accurate due to PROGRAMMING rather than INTUITION.

 

I would gander a guess that the algorithm is designed for the bots to asses the highest value threat

at a certain range.

Threat not being based on player skill but target value.

Hence it seems like some bots head hunt players.

A heavy fighter priority is bombers.

 


Yeah, I've seen the bots take #1 plenty of times, just not in the upper tiers, with human players.  In the lower tiers, where you can have two teams full of potatoes, absolutely.

 

When I looked at the minimap, I had a choice to make.  There were two GAA, and I had to pick which one was the "talented" one.  The other red bot GAA scored all of 4500 points, so it really wasn't a threat.  Leaving it would have been fine.  But, it was a 50/50 choice, and I picked wrong.  If I had saved the plant, we would have won by a small margin, instead of the other way around (probably).

 

Hero of the Sky, Akamatsu, Kozebudubbabubba, and Winged Legend are all cool, and I don't mind the tokens, but I would rather win, truth be told.

 

Yes, for sure bot heavies head-hunt.  I have had a bot relentlessly find my bomber, even when I am flying into a map corner during reload.  Shoot them down, go bomb something, lo and behold, there's that same bot back to nibble at my HP.  Same with MRF when I am playing HF.  The Japanese MRF are particularly pesky and persistent.



Chuck_norris10 #18 Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:44 PM

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These are not regular bots we are dealing with.

They are slaughter bots.Fearless,they would rather die in a ram or by purposefully hitting a mountain then to give you a kill.


 

 


 

_Panzerkunst_ #19 Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:01 PM

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Those bot GA & Bombers travel in pairs so it's only a matter of time before they cap the plant. When you're in no man's land I sometimes think it's better to let them cap it and try to recapture it before the 2 min boost.

Also, I was in my Horten attacking a GA and out of nowhere a bot T9 German GA sniped & 1 shot me. I was at about half health but nowhere near it & flying across it's flight path & wasn't even in a cap circle. So yeah, high tier bots have been turned up a few notches.
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CorvusCorvax #20 Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:06 PM

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View Post_Panzerkunst_, on 25 June 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

Those bot GA & Bombers travel in pairs so it's only a matter of time before they cap the plant. When you're in no man's land I sometimes think it's better to let them cap it and try to recapture it before the 2 min boost.

Also, I was in my Horten attacking a GA and out of nowhere a bot T9 German GA sniped & 1 shot me. I was at about half health but nowhere near it & flying across it's flight path & wasn't even in a cap circle. So yeah, high tier bots have been turned up a few notches.

For sure, after the squall, the bots become much more aggressive.  Making sure you find bots alone, and don't attack just one in a group?  The key to survival.  Yes, the bot bombers and GAA travel together.  As a HF player, I have seen it plenty that a bot GAA will enter the zone, and if you go down to meet it, a bomber will arrive shortly thereafter.






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