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NL_Celt #1 Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:50 AM

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Still having a blast. That's important!

 

Got a neat McCampbell Medal earlier tonight in my Me109E. Earned me a rare token. Got to say, I like that plane. Punchy hitting power.

 

Was wondering about multirole planes as I was just onto the Yak-7. Magus had said in a video about crew skills that trying to make a multirole into a good ground attack aircraft then you should just smarten up and get a real GAA. So I was wondering about whether bothering with a plane that not a good enough fighter nor a good enough GAA was useful. But then I watched another video and the guy used the Yak-7 as his example and mentioned he quite liked the plane. So I then fought several battles, getting the pilot over his 100% so not a great skill advantage in him. Had a bit of a blast with that heavy cannon. Can be a bit of a killer. More than a few ostensibly better fighters met their doom charging straight at me into that big long range bejesus cannon with good 50 cal support.

 

Through all this I got a rating and rewards for the Lobby thingamajiga. Never even looked at what you were supposed to do to gain this, just flew, and got a rating of 161. Is that any good?

 

Have fun b'ys!


Edited by NL_Celt, 19 June 2019 - 03:55 AM.


SpiritFoxMY #2 Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:34 AM

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View PostNL_Celt, on 19 June 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

Through all this I got a rating and rewards for the Lobby thingamajiga. Never even looked at what you were supposed to do to gain this, just flew, and got a rating of 161. Is that any good?

 

It means you won yourself a special limited edition piece of equipment that's stronger than the vanilla variety (period 2 - tiers 5-7 - Japanese Lightweight Wing Frame)

 

Good that you're having fun. The Messerschmits end in the most overpowered fighter at tier 10 while the Multirole Yaks are hilarious one hit wonders. You won't be disappointed with their top planes 


***

But a truce to this mournful story

For death is a distant friend

So here's to a life of glory

And a laurel to crown each end


hoom #3 Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:08 AM

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The derp Yaks are pretty unique among Multiroles in the game.

 

They're mainly about using the derp power of the big guns to smash other planes, while most other Multiroles at least have the option of supplementing anti-air work with bombs/rockets.

 

Derp Yaks maintain an excellent 10.8s turn time (common number for non-T&B Light fighters) until the Su-9, from there up its a more sluggish 12.3s but you also get arguably even more hilariously powerful derp guns (at least for the T9 & 10).

 

The derps are very RNGesus dependent though: some battles you just hit any shot vaguely in the direction of an enemy even at extreme range and its hilarious fun.

Other battles you can sit behind an un-turning big enemy for minutes, barely doing any damage to them because the blasted thing won't land regardless of where you aim & its absolute torture.


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Mercsn #4 Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:23 AM

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Never ever EVER shoot at ground targets in any fighter (multirole, heavy or light) if there are air targets (within your altitude range) that you can get to.  When you line up on a ground target to strafe it or line up a bomb run, you are flying straight (and you will usually slow down also trying to get a kill on a ground target section before you pass over).  this makes you an EXTREMELY easy target.  Since the multirole (MR) planes aren't good turn fighters, shaking whatever got on you won't be easy and killing that ground target section piece will often get you killed or mostly so, if you're lucky enough to have a teammate or bot get the enemy off your tail.

 

I mention "kill a ground section piece" because ground kills don't work like air kills. If you kill a plane, you killed a plane and you'll earn capture points (which help capture or refill your hold on a sector, if defending).  In order to kills "one" ground target, you must kill all the little pieces of it (or the last piece).  So, let's say you take your MR fighter and shoot up an AA gun (like the #RussianLogic tips tell you, don't believe the devs, they're bad at the game!).  You killed one SECTION of a ground target.  You get ZERO capture points.  In other words, you're not really helping your team capture the sector.  You'd need to knock out the hardened bunkers with the AA gun and the soft building (4 pieces of the "one" target).

 

And, remember what I mentioned earlier.  While you were busy not earning any capture points for killing that one SECTION of one ground target, you got an enemy ADA bot on your tail that chewed up most of your health.  If there's red enemy players or "player bots" in the sector, you're probably dead.  Which means you gave the enemy capture points by doing nothing but making yourself an easy target.

 

"Multi-role" planes can be good.  I use quotes because it's a stupid name.  Their role is shooting down aircraft, the same as any other non-bomber and non-ground attacker in the game.  My most flown plane is the tier 6 FW-190.  It's specialized and I do not run bombs on it.  I actually can't because it's bugged and if I try to add bombs the specialization thingy goes wonky and I have to restart the game. 

 

When you're just starting out, I advise to NOT put ordnance (bombs and rockets on any plane).  They just slow you down (speed is life).  And they encourage you to do stupid things (like fly straight).  Once you've played a little bit, you will have had moments where you think, "man, if I had the bombs equipped, I could finish capturing this sector by blowing up that building."  It's at that point that you start to understand the situations where you should use ordnance. 

 

And, the rule for ordnance also, definitely applies to shooting at ground targets, even with big caliber guns. Just pretend your gun won't damage the ground target and go find planes to shoot at.  You'll crash, trying to get the kill before you have to break off.  Then you'll start timing it right to get the kill, but by then red planes that you didn't notice got behind you and shot you down so you allowed the enemy to refill their capture on the sector.  Then, you'll finally figure out how to kill ground targets with that big gun and not get killed, but you'll realize that you lost the game because while you were screwing around strafing crap at the plant, you lost every other sector...because you didn't go find planes to shoot at.

 

You get the idea I'm trying to drive home.

 

If you want to attack ground targets (at all), use a bomber or ground attack aircraft.  

 

That said, if you can snipe, the Yak-7 through 9u can be really mean.  But, you'll get outplayed if you miss.  That P-51, Bf-109, Spitfire, or Zero will get on your tail and stay there until you're splashed.

 

I advise against the German multi-role planes.  The tier 5 FW-190 sucks. It's like a Bf-109 that can't climb, is slow, and turns really bad.  The same goes for the tier 7, except it adds "has a screwy gun setup with three wildly different calibers and muzzle velocities which make is difficult to hit anything that isn't flying straight" to the things the tier 5 has as weaknesses. 

 

Rating of 161? I have no idea what that is. If you're talking about the recent "personal rating" event, it means that you placed 161st in how many air defense aircraft that you killed (the bots that spawn in zones and defend them).


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

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The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

CorvusCorvax #5 Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 19 June 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

Never ever EVER shoot at ground targets in any fighter (multirole, heavy or light) if there are air targets (within your altitude range) that you can get to. 

As advice to folks just starting the game, this probably works, roughly.  For folks who have been playing a while, and have more than one goal in mind, I say an absolute prohibition is too restrictive.  Here's why:

 

Often, I am flighted up with a person running some flavor of ground pounder.  Since my MRF or HF is faster by far, I preceded my mate into the capture area and suppress the AA guns.  Just the guns, not the whole site, and which guns depend on if I am escorting a bomber or a GAA.  This also has the effect of drawing the ADA to me. I then take on the ADA, and wait for the inevitable ronin MRF or HF, since RussianLogic dictates that red bots need to go to every capture area. By the time they get there, we mostly have the zone in-hand, and my flight mate is relatively undamaged, and he can fly to the next capture area, while I deal with pesky bots.  If I get shot down in-zone during the lock phase, it doesn't hurt the team any, so I don't care as much.

 

Last night, I was in a four-token battle in my T6 FW-190 where I followed this template.  I was only escorting bot GAA, but they seem to get the job done better if they aren't being harassed by red planes or MRF.  The FW-190 even has the legs to get up to bot bomber altitude, since they aren't smart enough to fly higher than that.

 

Normally, I accept that playing MRF is a support role, and that I am merely trying to help my team mate, who is actually flipping caps.  This battle was different, in that our team was down early, came back to maintain a 3-2 edge for most of the battle, then win superiority only at the very end.  In addition, there were only four total humans in the battle, so we must have been pretty evenly matched, and the MM must have rolled two sixes for once.

 

In any case, the absolute prohibition against doing anti-ground work in a fighter-type aircraft is reasonable advice for people just getting used to how to play those aircraft.  But for those of us who have been doing it for a while, using the HF or the MRF against carefully-selected ground targets is helpful for team mates, and can lead to very high scores.  Situation will dictate the use.

 

To that last, I will offer this up:  I have been known to use my HF to defend a central airbase/military base.  If the red team is so dumb as to keep attacking it, instead of taking the other capture areas, I'll be happy to oblige then by shooting them down one by one.  My "Ace" tokens in my HFs have come from doing just that.  One might say that using an HF in this way is not the best use.  And they could be right.  But not many other aircraft can zap a GAA, then zoom up to knock down a bomber.  When you're defending a military base, you need to be able to do zooming thing.

 

 



losttwo #6 Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:53 PM

    which way do we go?

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Just wait until you get the one ring.

Then everyone will accuse you of hacking. 



nwlxn12 #7 Posted 19 June 2019 - 05:14 PM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 19 June 2019 - 06:27 AM, said:

Often, I am flighted up with a person running some flavor of ground pounder.  Since my MRF or HF is faster by far, I preceded my mate into the capture area and suppress the AA guns.  Just the guns, not the whole site, and which guns depend on if I am escorting a bomber or a GAA.  This also has the effect of drawing the ADA to me. I then take on the ADA, and wait for the inevitable ronin MRF or HF, since RussianLogic dictates that red bots need to go to every capture area. By the time they get there, we mostly have the zone in-hand, and my flight mate is relatively undamaged, and he can fly to the next capture area, while I deal with pesky bots.  If I get shot down in-zone during the lock phase, it doesn't hurt the team any, so I don't care as much.

 

In the above situation I will also take out soft targets that are mixed in with a ground target that has both hard and soft parts so that when a bomb or rocket from the Bomber or GAA hit it, it does more damage to the armored targets.  Unless I am mistaken that some damage from a bomb gets used up on soft targets and if they weren't there, more damage gets dealt to the hard target.  For example:  If I am covering a bomber that is going to a mining plant and I get there first with no other planes there, I take out the AA as well as the stacks to the main target in hopes that when the bombs drop on that target, more bomb damage will occur to help destroy the target and flip the zone.  Maybe I don't need to do that but it feels as if it helps.

 

 



NL_Celt #8 Posted 19 June 2019 - 07:33 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 19 June 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

 

 

Rating of 161? I have no idea what that is. If you're talking about the recent "personal rating" event, it means that you placed 161st in how many air defense aircraft that you killed (the bots that spawn in zones and defend them).

 

This was one of the missions called Lobby bombers or something. Like I said I never concentrated on whatever it was that was needed, but I got it anyway, just by playing away. When the reward popped up, including the period 2 piece of equipment, it said I had a rating of 161 for that mission I guess. Was just wondering if 161 was either bit good, moderate or poor. Just tossed it in there since I was writing a post anyway. Not a big deal.


Edited by NL_Celt, 19 June 2019 - 07:35 PM.


NL_Celt #9 Posted 19 June 2019 - 07:56 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 19 June 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

Never ever EVER shoot at ground targets in any fighter (multirole, heavy or light) if there are air targets (within your altitude range) that you can get to.  When you line up on a ground target to strafe it or line up a bomb run, you are flying straight (and you will usually slow down also trying to get a kill on a ground target section before you pass over).  this makes you an EXTREMELY easy target.  Since the multirole (MR) planes aren't good turn fighters, shaking whatever got on you won't be easy and killing that ground target section piece will often get you killed or mostly so, if you're lucky enough to have a teammate or bot get the enemy off your tail.

 

I mention "kill a ground section piece" because ground kills don't work like air kills. If you kill a plane, you killed a plane and you'll earn capture points (which help capture or refill your hold on a sector, if defending).  In order to kills "one" ground target, you must kill all the little pieces of it (or the last piece).  So, let's say you take your MR fighter and shoot up an AA gun (like the #RussianLogic tips tell you, don't believe the devs, they're bad at the game!).  You killed one SECTION of a ground target.  You get ZERO capture points.  In other words, you're not really helping your team capture the sector.  You'd need to knock out the hardened bunkers with the AA gun and the soft building (4 pieces of the "one" target).

 

And, remember what I mentioned earlier.  While you were busy not earning any capture points for killing that one SECTION of one ground target, you got an enemy ADA bot on your tail that chewed up most of your health.  If there's red enemy players or "player bots" in the sector, you're probably dead.  Which means you gave the enemy capture points by doing nothing but making yourself an easy target.

 

"Multi-role" planes can be good.  I use quotes because it's a stupid name.  Their role is shooting down aircraft, the same as any other non-bomber and non-ground attacker in the game.  My most flown plane is the tier 6 FW-190.  It's specialized and I do not run bombs on it.  I actually can't because it's bugged and if I try to add bombs the specialization thingy goes wonky and I have to restart the game. 

 

When you're just starting out, I advise to NOT put ordnance (bombs and rockets on any plane).  They just slow you down (speed is life).  And they encourage you to do stupid things (like fly straight).  Once you've played a little bit, you will have had moments where you think, "man, if I had the bombs equipped, I could finish capturing this sector by blowing up that building."  It's at that point that you start to understand the situations where you should use ordnance. 

 

And, the rule for ordnance also, definitely applies to shooting at ground targets, even with big caliber guns. Just pretend your gun won't damage the ground target and go find planes to shoot at.  You'll crash, trying to get the kill before you have to break off.  Then you'll start timing it right to get the kill, but by then red planes that you didn't notice got behind you and shot you down so you allowed the enemy to refill their capture on the sector.  Then, you'll finally figure out how to kill ground targets with that big gun and not get killed, but you'll realize that you lost the game because while you were screwing around strafing crap at the plant, you lost every other sector...because you didn't go find planes to shoot at.

 

You get the idea I'm trying to drive home.

 

If you want to attack ground targets (at all), use a bomber or ground attack aircraft.  

 

That said, if you can snipe, the Yak-7 through 9u can be really mean.  But, you'll get outplayed if you miss.  That P-51, Bf-109, Spitfire, or Zero will get on your tail and stay there until you're splashed.

 

I advise against the German multi-role planes.  The tier 5 FW-190 sucks. It's like a Bf-109 that can't climb, is slow, and turns really bad.  The same goes for the tier 7, except it adds "has a screwy gun setup with three wildly different calibers and muzzle velocities which make is difficult to hit anything that isn't flying straight" to the things the tier 5 has as weaknesses. 

 

Rating of 161? I have no idea what that is. If you're talking about the recent "personal rating" event, it means that you placed 161st in how many air defense aircraft that you killed (the bots that spawn in zones and defend them).

 

Yah, I get what you are saying. Wasn't sure if not carrying rockets/bombs actually had any effect on speed or maneuverability. It made sense it would, just never saw a stat that would indicate there was an effect. Must have a look around and see if there is something that changes when I dismount the rockets/bombs.

(edit: I see the change now that I looked for it)

 

In all those battles with the Yak-7 last night I rarely fired any rockets. I recall once or twice maybe and also I tried for an RNGesus rocket strike at a heavy fighter, looking for a spectacular smack. Mostly I was just out looking for things to tear chunks out of with the big cannon ( and I did find a few, lol). I have paid attention (mostly) to an early PM from you about things like having your Spit 1A firing MG's at ground targets being somewhat less than smart. But when I have some things mounted I sometimes think to use them. Even on my Skua I spend most all the time dogfighting. And certainly once you try to line up for a bomb run you become an easy target.


Edited by NL_Celt, 19 June 2019 - 10:47 PM.


hoom #10 Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:57 AM

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Ratings thing was for https://worldofwarplanes.com/news/june-ratings-2019/

Rank 161 means you were 161st of players in T5+ at killing ADA June 13-18.

 

A big part in these rankings tends to be how many battles you played though attention to the requirements of ADA kills could help increase the rank efficiency.

I haven't played particularly much in this period & wasn't paying attention so got I think 182, though also got a 2xx ranking so it must have been split into high & low tiers (they normally are but event description seems to indicate not this time?).


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Mercsn #11 Posted 21 June 2019 - 09:19 AM

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View PostNL_Celt, on 19 June 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

 

Yah, I get what you are saying. Wasn't sure if not carrying rockets/bombs actually had any effect on speed or maneuverability. It made sense it would, just never saw a stat that would indicate there was an effect. Must have a look around and see if there is something that changes when I dismount the rockets/bombs.

(edit: I see the change now that I looked for it)

 

In all those battles with the Yak-7 last night I rarely fired any rockets. I recall once or twice maybe and also I tried for an RNGesus rocket strike at a heavy fighter, looking for a spectacular smack. Mostly I was just out looking for things to tear chunks out of with the big cannon ( and I did find a few, lol). I have paid attention (mostly) to an early PM from you about things like having your Spit 1A firing MG's at ground targets being somewhat less than smart. But when I have some things mounted I sometimes think to use them. Even on my Skua I spend most all the time dogfighting. And certainly once you try to line up for a bomb run you become an easy target.

 

Carrying ordnance used to affect maneuvering, but now it's just speed.  I'm glad you found the drop down stats.  The "overall" numbers are fairly useless.  The dropdowns tell you what's really going on, especially when you're trying to compare equipment, loadout, or whatever.

 

I just always advise players to not carry ordnance or attack ground targets because I sooooo many go to the respawn point because of it. And, before they go to the respawn, the halfway kill several targets (earning zero capture points) and then they GIVE the enemy 25% capture points when they get shot down. 

:facepalm:

 

At that point, they're pretty much working for the other team.  Besides, shooting (or rocket/bombing) a ground target isn't enough fun to have to go wait at the spawn point and fly back into a battle area. 

 

That's why I give that blanket advice.  And, if you're in a slow plane to begin with, sometimes that extra speed reduction can really make a game suck (like when you draw that friggin' water map that takes 3 hours to get across).

 

 


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.




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