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Allied ADA ramming players on their own team: Why does this happen? Is there a way that WG can fix t...


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Poll: Have you ever been rammed by an allied ADA? (10 members have cast votes)

Have you ever been rammed by an allied ADA?

  1. yes (7 votes [70.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 70.00%

  2. no (3 votes [30.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

  3. I don't know (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

If you answered yes to question 1, how did you feel about it?

  1. Fine with it(state your reasons) (1 vote [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  2. tolerate it when it happens once in a while, but don't understand it (2 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. Don't like it (3 votes [30.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

  4. Hate it/fed up with it (1 vote [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  5. I did not answer yes to question 1 (3 votes [30.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

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legoboy0401 #1 Posted 14 June 2019 - 07:24 PM

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This has been annoying me for some time. From time to time, I'm getting a really great game and racking up a good score, when all of the sudden, out of the blue,  an allied ADA(usually one of those incessant, incredibly irritating Heavy ADAs) decides to fender-bender me and BOOM, my score is reduced, sometimes by as much as 500 points, IN ADDITION to having lost a lot of my health too.

 

 

Two questions: First; why even is this happening? Is there a glitch in non-neutral Heavy ADA programming that makes them behave like neutral Heavy ADA(in other words, attempt to ram all Light, Multirole, and Heavy Fighters that enter the zone)? I don't understand it. As I said, these are almost NEVER head-on collisions, rather almost always fender-benders(i.e., from behind)

 

 

Second; why am I being punished for the error of these ADA bots? It's not my doing. They are pretty much always colliding with me in one of the two rear quarters, not in either front quarter. Logically, I am not the one at fault here! That's like a car behind another car, trying to pass the second car and crashing into it, and not being deemed at fault because "well, the second car was in the way" NO, the second car wasn't! You had PLENTY of room to get by the second car and not collide with it. Just because you botched the passing doesn't mean a safe passing wasn't possible. In the same way, I'm usually the only one(baring allied light ADA)within 600-700 meters when I get rammed by one of these stupid allied Heavy ADA. There was PLENTY of room to get by me. Just because the bot botched the attempt to get by me certainly does NOT mean that a safe, successful attempt to get by me wasn't possible. It certainly was. In what world would I be considered at fault here? NO world. If an ADA rams a player or bot on its team, no one should be punished, because the ADA is generally the one at fault.

 

 

 

Have any of you experienced this problem? If so, fill out the poll. I thank you in advance for your help!

 

 

 

 

Regards, Legoboy0401

 

 

 


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


wylleEcoyote #2 Posted 14 June 2019 - 07:40 PM

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I have had this happen before on more than one occasion and it is one of two things.

At the beginning of the match sometimes individual players already know where they want to go
So they pull a sharp turn or pull up inot a climb supper quick
and then Lean on the Boost button

at that first moment of the game we are all close in formation and then we spread out with no thought to what is near by

This is where most of my allied collisions come from.
THe rest involve the fact that Heavy planes (also bombers but bombers get more respect) DO NOT maneuver well compared to everyone else. When they make a move they are committed to it.  Sometimes they are chasing the same thing you are,

and then you fly in front of them

and slow down.

Some times you are also in a heavy and you do the best you can.

But if something like a Spitfire gets run through by a Beaufighter  ...it is the Spitfire pilot that screwed up. 

Basically if you're in a plane that can dodge bullets then you can be expected to dodge other airplanes as well

Fair warning. My success rate at speculative guesswork is very hit or miss. Usually I start on the right track and then a make a weird left turn and get lost in the weeds ... 
And yet it doesn't stop me from speculation.
Specialist Planes i have:
USA: XP-31, F1C-2, Model 81A-1, P-40, F4F, P-38F, P-39N-1, P-47B, P-38J, XF15C, XP-58 

USSR: Tu-1  UK: DH.100 F1. Japan: not even once. France: SE 100
Germany: Fw 56, He 112, Fw 190 A-5, Bf 109 B, Bf 109 E, Bf 109 E-3, Me209 A, Do 17 Z, Do 217 M, Hs 123, Ha 137, Ju 87 G, Me 265, Me 1099 B-2,  Bf 110 C-6, Me 410, Do 335 A-1,


legoboy0401 #3 Posted 14 June 2019 - 07:54 PM

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View PostwylleEcoyote, on 14 June 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

I have had this happen before on more than one occasion and it is one of two things.

At the beginning of the match sometimes individual players already know where they want to go
So they pull a sharp turn or pull up inot a climb supper quick
and then Lean on the Boost button

at that first moment of the game we are all close in formation and then we spread out with no thought to what is near by

This is where most of my allied collisions come from.
THe rest involve the fact that Heavy planes (also bombers but bombers get more respect) DO NOT maneuver well compared to everyone else. When they make a move they are committed to it.  Sometimes they are chasing the same thing you are,

and then you fly in front of them

and slow down.

Some times you are also in a heavy and you do the best you can.

But if something like a Spitfire gets run through by a Beaufighter  ...it is the Spitfire pilot that screwed up. 

Basically if you're in a plane that can dodge bullets then you can be expected to dodge other airplanes as well

 

This has nothing to do with players or team bots, only allied air defense aircraft. I almost always am careful enough that I never ram anyone in the opening moments of the match.

 

First of all, it is almost always from behind(MUCH harder to even know there is a threat of collision) and second, it usually happens in a very otherwise-empty zone, or at least in a clear area of 500-700 meters around the plane that is rammed by a Heavy air defense fighter from their own team.


An average player with an average goal: greatness, someday. Today, mediocrity will have to suffice. But no matter, I will always play to the best of my ability, and I will always strive to make the best of my ability just that little bit stronger and better.

 

#Failureisalwaysanoption

 

#Givingupneveris


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #4 Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:06 PM

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no

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


losttwo #5 Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:07 PM

    which way do we go?

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Been rammed by ADA and allied bots.

 

How to prevent it:

Stay out of their pre- programmed flight path.

 

If you adjust the color on your monitor to black and white the bot flight paths will show up as red lines on the screen.

 

 



_Panzerkunst_ #6 Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:52 AM

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Maybe you're spending too much time in otherwise empty friendly sectors, you should be capping more than defending.

As said previously, seems like you enter the line of fire of your ADA attacking an enemy, which would be your fault. Hardly worth anything to poll about.

It's not them, it's YOU.
Glad to see your flight increased to a possible 3 hours per day. You're fighting the good fight!
"If You Want Peace, Prepare For War."

Mercsn #7 Posted 15 June 2019 - 06:27 AM

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The EZ PZ fix is to get rid of the ADA.   In the olden days, it was just fine to have ground pounders knocking out targets to achieve supremacy.  The same thing could be applied to each sector.  Kill ground targets to earn "supremacy" over that sector (aka capture the sector).  If you want to defend it, defend it. 

 

This would allow WG to remove some of the ^&#@'ing bots that are too prevalent.  It would allow GA something fun to do when the nearest red sector is on the other side of the map with a rocket base shooting at it or a bomber flight inbound.  In other words, when GA would otherwise be useless they can again play the role of super-heavy-fighter and defend a valuable zone. 

 

Teamwork?  If you want to capture a zone, you better keep your GA or bombers alive.

 

Less bots, more teamwork?  Sounds better than what #LadyManager and #RussianLogic have cooked up. 

 

Oh, and how #Soon ™ is that "normal" game mode going to come out?


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

losttwo #8 Posted 15 June 2019 - 08:41 AM

    which way do we go?

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View PostMercsn, on 15 June 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

The EZ PZ fix is to get rid of the ADA.   In the olden days, it was just fine to have ground pounders knocking out targets to achieve supremacy.  The same thing could be applied to each sector.  Kill ground targets to earn "supremacy" over that sector (aka capture the sector).  If you want to defend it, defend it. 

 

This would allow WG to remove some of the ^&#@'ing bots that are too prevalent.  It would allow GA something fun to do when the nearest red sector is on the other side of the map with a rocket base shooting at it or a bomber flight inbound.  In other words, when GA would otherwise be useless they can again play the role of super-heavy-fighter and defend a valuable zone. 

 

Teamwork?  If you want to capture a zone, you better keep your GA or bombers alive.

 

Less bots, more teamwork?  Sounds better than what #LadyManager and #RussianLogic have cooked up. 

 

Oh, and how #Soon ™ is that "normal" game mode going to come out?

 

I agree with this more than 100%.

Get rid of the ADA and allow the bombers and GAA to be the sole factor in Capturing sectors.

Even in a bot riddled match.

As the game is currently a GAA only needs to take out the ADA to Capture a sector.

They do not really need to attack ground targets.

If GAA focus on ground targets and have no support then the ADA eat away at the HP.

 

The best example of the concept in the current game is the Mining Plant.



Stygian_Alchemist #9 Posted 15 June 2019 - 09:17 AM

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View Postlosttwo, on 15 June 2019 - 02:41 AM, said:

 

I agree with this more than 100%.

Get rid of the ADA and allow the bombers and GAA to be the sole factor in Capturing sectors.

Even in a bot riddled match.

As the game is currently a GAA only needs to take out the ADA to Capture a sector.

They do not really need to attack ground targets.

If GAA focus on ground targets and have no support then the ADA eat away at the HP.

 

The best example of the concept in the current game is the Mining Plant.

If you do that, you'll just tip people to not fighting in nodes if they're in an air to air craft which will make whoever gets the most caps first the one most likely to win if they can just bottle up the ground pounders. That's problematic.

My two cents.



losttwo #10 Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:45 PM

    which way do we go?

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 15 June 2019 - 04:17 AM, said:

If you do that, you'll just tip people to not fighting in nodes if they're in an air to air craft which will make whoever gets the most caps first the one most likely to win if they can just bottle up the ground pounders. That's problematic.

My two cents.

 

I do not think so.

The fighters will have to defend their GAA and bombers more.

Sure most of the Fighters may find themselves haggling it out in empty space.

While they defend the bombers and GAA in route.

 

You still have Multi-Role and Heavies carrying ordnance to attack sectors as well.

So I do not think things would change all that much from how they are now with the fighting in or outside the sectors.

 

 

 



SkyWolf__WM #11 Posted 15 June 2019 - 03:51 PM

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View Postlegoboy0401, on 14 June 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

 

 

Two questions: First; why even is this happening? Is there a glitch in non-neutral Heavy ADA programming that makes them behave like neutral Heavy ADA(in other words, attempt to ram all Light, Multirole, and Heavy Fighters that enter the zone)? I don't understand it. As I said, these are almost NEVER head-on collisions, rather almost always fender-benders(i.e., from behind)

 

 

Second; why am I being punished for the error of these ADA bots? It's not my doing. They are pretty much always colliding with me in one of the two rear quarters, not in either front quarter. Logically, I am not the one at fault here! That's like a car behind another car, trying to pass the second car and crashing into it, and not being deemed at fault because "well, the second car was in the way" NO, the second car wasn't! You had PLENTY of room to get by the second car and not collide with it. Just because you botched the passing doesn't mean a safe passing wasn't possible. In the same way, I'm usually the only one(baring allied light ADA)within 600-700 meters when I get rammed by one of these stupid allied Heavy ADA. There was PLENTY of room to get by me. Just because the bot botched the attempt to get by me certainly does NOT mean that a safe, successful attempt to get by me wasn't possible. It certainly was. In what world would I be considered at fault here? NO world. If an ADA rams a player or bot on its team, no one should be punished, because the ADA is generally the one at fault.

 

 

 

Have any of you experienced this problem? If so, fill out the poll. I thank you in advance for your help!

 

 

 

 

Regards, Legoboy0401

 

 

 

 

Yes. I usually fly straight and quickly look around for people or bots that might ram me.

Yes. I get rammed by heavy fighters and sometimes human light fighters in other sectors. But I usually attribute it to my extremely poor situational awareness. If some dufus

wants the kill so badly then I let em' have the kill. They are usually inexperienced players. Wow.... aren't I sounding all rational and sane today? :amazed:


Edited by SkyWolf__WM, 15 June 2019 - 07:42 PM.

***************Fail to Suck****************

I shall use my aircraft and my skill to slightly inconvenience mine enemies.


trikke #12 Posted 15 June 2019 - 05:34 PM

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I remember early in alpha when the battle started, it was the most dangerous minute in the game


We were all bunched so tightly, if someone made a move, he took someone else out


that was back when we would die if we touched a dead plane, so it would quickly snowball


After a few months, they spread us out a bit


good times


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

Mercsn #13 Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:22 PM

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View PostWhite_Widow18, on 15 June 2019 - 03:17 AM, said:

If you do that, you'll just tip people to not fighting in nodes if they're in an air to air craft which will make whoever gets the most caps first the one most likely to win if they can just bottle up the ground pounders. That's problematic.

My two cents.

 

Umm, you kind of explained exactly why this would be a good move.  The, "if they can just bottle up the ground pounders," part is key.  First, it encourages team play.  If you don't want your ground pounders getting bottled up, escort them. Secondly, ground pounders exist in two extreme and opposite altitude ranges.  So, again, teamwork would be required to bottle them up in both altitude ranges.

 

GA and bomber survivability could be buffed (they are very squishy now, even bombers are one-pass kills).  Handling and pitch up performance could be adjusted for ground attack planes (nerf pitch up performance with a speed bleed penalty and make stalling more violent to discourage aiming at fighters unless it's life and death and he's coming in head on).  Sure, that change might bother some who prefer to use ground attack as super-heavy-fighters (which I do enjoy), but it would put them into their intended role.   Handling/turning could be nerfed on both ground attackers and bombers.  Then, sectors could be spread farther out with a mix of closer together targets (that bombers would like) and farther apart targets (that ground attackers would like and more akin to how the old mode played out where you weren't circle jerk strafing in a fairly small area).

 

The current game mode is often a race of who gets more zones first.  So, at the worst, the "remove the ada and use ground pounders to capture zones" would be negligibly different, in that regard.  However, you would still have the bonus of players being forced to work somewhat together.  It would play out similarly to how the bomber intercept of the recent event did.  Except much less stupidly: both teams would be on even footing and trying to outdo each other in both offense and defense to capture and hold sectors (which, incidentally, is the pre-match synopsis of the current game mode). 

 

Of course, some "chevron" score conditions would have to be adjusted, if they were to keep that stupid scoring system.  Of course, I've advocated for ditching that silly "rank" or "score" or whatever #RussianLogic calls it and just go with one score or performance measurement of a player.

 

As losttwo pointed out, if I fly my IL-20 into a sector and have two ada fly at me head on and a third fly past me (which I can get with a tailgun if it turns to follow me), then I just capped most of that sector without even attacking a ground target.  If the other team has a novice skill player bot fly in, the ADA are actually capable of killing it, themselves.  Then, I pop their incoming GA on the way to my next sector. 

 

I've seriously had matches with more aerial damage than the player (or bot) fighters on my team, in my IL-20.  Why? because there's not really incentive (other than daily token missions) to shoot ground targets.

 

Why not allow the ground pounders (bomber and ground attackers) to do what they were designed to do and have it be more valuable than shooting down air targets?  Why not also encourage teamwork in both offense and defense, at the same time?


All the Important Thread Links (go here for answers!) Might be outdated!

All-in-one thread with 2.0 related guide links.

 

The below was said to me (Mercsn), from a concerned player:

Edited, on 12 March - 2:01PM , said:

and PS...play more, forum less.  Your opinion might be more credible.

Stygian_Alchemist #14 Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:34 PM

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View PostMercsn, on 16 June 2019 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Umm, you kind of explained exactly why this would be a good move.  The, "if they can just bottle up the ground pounders," part is key.  First, it encourages team play.  If you don't want your ground pounders getting bottled up, escort them. Secondly, ground pounders exist in two extreme and opposite altitude ranges.  So, again, teamwork would be required to bottle them up in both altitude ranges.

 

GA and bomber survivability could be buffed (they are very squishy now, even bombers are one-pass kills).  Handling and pitch up performance could be adjusted for ground attack planes (nerf pitch up performance with a speed bleed penalty and make stalling more violent to discourage aiming at fighters unless it's life and death and he's coming in head on).  Sure, that change might bother some who prefer to use ground attack as super-heavy-fighters (which I do enjoy), but it would put them into their intended role.   Handling/turning could be nerfed on both ground attackers and bombers.  Then, sectors could be spread farther out with a mix of closer together targets (that bombers would like) and farther apart targets (that ground attackers would like and more akin to how the old mode played out where you weren't circle jerk strafing in a fairly small area).

 

The current game mode is often a race of who gets more zones first.  So, at the worst, the "remove the ada and use ground pounders to capture zones" would be negligibly different, in that regard.  However, you would still have the bonus of players being forced to work somewhat together.  It would play out similarly to how the bomber intercept of the recent event did.  Except much less stupidly: both teams would be on even footing and trying to outdo each other in both offense and defense to capture and hold sectors (which, incidentally, is the pre-match synopsis of the current game mode). 

 

Of course, some "chevron" score conditions would have to be adjusted, if they were to keep that stupid scoring system.  Of course, I've advocated for ditching that silly "rank" or "score" or whatever #RussianLogic calls it and just go with one score or performance measurement of a player.

 

As losttwo pointed out, if I fly my IL-20 into a sector and have two ada fly at me head on and a third fly past me (which I can get with a tailgun if it turns to follow me), then I just capped most of that sector without even attacking a ground target.  If the other team has a novice skill player bot fly in, the ADA are actually capable of killing it, themselves.  Then, I pop their incoming GA on the way to my next sector. 

 

I've seriously had matches with more aerial damage than the player (or bot) fighters on my team, in my IL-20.  Why? because there's not really incentive (other than daily token missions) to shoot ground targets.

 

Why not allow the ground pounders (bomber and ground attackers) to do what they were designed to do and have it be more valuable than shooting down air targets?  Why not also encourage teamwork in both offense and defense, at the same time?

:teethhappy:

How drunk -are- you?

Edited to add: I'm going to go actually fly and play my GAA and laugh all the way to the bank as I ignore all the air targets and rack out wins.. because this is the funniest thing I've read -today-.

Also.. I literally despise GAA who play like Air-to-air players. They so rarely win that it can be called random chance when they do. You're a handicap to your team.


Edited by White_Widow18, 16 June 2019 - 10:36 PM.





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