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Limit GA/Bombers in Flight


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GeorgePatton #1 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:39 PM

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I think the flight mechanics are absolutely ridiculous at this point. We have a max of 2 players in a flight so that flights aren't 'overpowered' yet WG will allow split-tiering and won't limit the types of aircraft in a flight. Putting 2 GA or 2 Bombers ore 1 GA and 1 Bomber together (and then letting them split tier as well) is not fun for anyone except maybe the people who like to do it. There's really no way to beat that if you're up-tiered (again, the split-tiering makes sure that the higher guy won't be up-tiered) and flying solo.

 

My suggestion is this:

 

  1. Bring back 3-player flights - it's something the people want and would increase the social aspect of this game which is somewhat lacking at the moment. Tanks and Ships both have 3-player groups.
  2. Limit the flight composition - unlimited number of light fighters, unlimited multirole fighters, 2 heavies max, and a maximum of one dedicated ground-pounder whether that be a GA or Bomber.
  3. Allow split-tiering,  but put the flight in the MM based on the higher tier aircraft's tier, not the lower.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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GreatBallsO_Fire_Jr #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:44 PM

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I agree. I have had several instances where i'm in a flight with a clan member and someone want to flight up and I just have to decline.

Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:55 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 17 May 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think the flight mechanics are absolutely ridiculous at this point. We have a max of 2 players in a flight so that flights aren't 'overpowered' yet WG will allow split-tiering and won't limit the types of aircraft in a flight. Putting 2 GA or 2 Bombers ore 1 GA and 1 Bomber together (and then letting them split tier as well) is not fun for anyone except maybe the people who like to do it. There's really no way to beat that if you're up-tiered (again, the split-tiering makes sure that the higher guy won't be up-tiered) and flying solo.

 

My suggestion is this:

 

  1. Bring back 3-player flights - it's something the people want and would increase the social aspect of this game which is somewhat lacking at the moment. Tanks and Ships both have 3-player groups.
  2. Limit the flight composition - unlimited number of light fighters, unlimited multirole fighters, 2 heavies max, and a maximum of one dedicated ground-pounder whether that be a GA or Bomber.
  3. Allow split-tiering,  but put the flight in the MM based on the higher tier aircraft's tier, not the lower.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

how can you say "Cheers" with this horrible injustice in the bosom of the game

I get so mad I could spit

:rolleyes:

oh well

 

 

 


if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


LMG #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:56 PM

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I think the main problem actually is when one team has multiple player ground pounders and the other only has bots. The bots are mediocre when it comes to ground pounding, often not being able to capture sectors without assistance before they're killed. I'd rather have them first make the bots be able to ground pound at a moderate level so you're not completely SoL when you don't have a player one, then they should check whether or not they need to be limited.

 

As it is, even one player ground pounder will end up outcapping 3 bot ground pounders if he knows what he's doing :sceptic:


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ClosedCoffin #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:01 PM

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3 player flights is not something I want.

I don't flight but I certainly understand why people like it and that it is good for the game and clan building.

But any competent 3 player flight will be overpowering in any battle if there is not one on the other team imho.

Maybe only allow 3 player flights in battles against a minimum of a 2 player flight on the other team. (yes a wait time problem)

 



GeorgePatton #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:02 PM

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View PostLMG, on 17 May 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

I think the main problem actually is when one team has multiple player ground pounders and the other only has bots. The bots are mediocre when it comes to ground pounding, often not being able to capture sectors without assistance before they're killed. I'd rather have them first make the bots be able to ground pound at a moderate level so you're not completely SoL when you don't have a player one, then they should check whether or not they need to be limited.

 

As it is, even one player ground pounder will end up outcapping 3 bot ground pounders if he knows what he's doing :sceptic:

 

I agree that one player ground pounder can outcap 3 bots, but with just 1 player ground pounder you can shoot them down enough to keep the game fairly balanced. Facing an IL-40 in a tier 8 is pretty much a joke if it's specialized and is using the TG out to 1200m.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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GeorgePatton #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:03 PM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 17 May 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

3 player flights is not something I want.

I don't flight but I certainly understand why people like it and that it is good for the game and clan building.

But any competent 3 player flight will be overpowering in any battle if there is not one on the other team imho.

Maybe only allow 3 player flights in battles against a minimum of a 2 player flight on the other team. (yes a wait time problem)

 

 

I'm sure many would take the higher wait time to have that third player. I know I would.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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CorvusCorvax #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:10 PM

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View PostClosedCoffin, on 17 May 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

3 player flights is not something I want.

I don't flight but I certainly understand why people like it and that it is good for the game and clan building.

But any competent 3 player flight will be overpowering in any battle if there is not one on the other team imho.

Maybe only allow 3 player flights in battles against a minimum of a 2 player flight on the other team. (yes a wait time problem)

 

 

I have a three-player flight for you to consider:

 

Zigfied. (Bomber)

Prenzlau. (Bomber)

CorvusCorvax (Heavy fighter)

 

Who wants to guess the win percentage of that combination?  I'll take a guess, just because:

 

98%.  In the beginning, it would be a little lower.  But as folks got to recognize what that looked like, they would just drop to hangar.

 

I'm not going to pat my back here, but I will give you some cold facts:  With Prenz or Zig as my flightmate, them flying bomber, and me flying HF, we win at close to 90%.  I flew one day with Zig, and we flew 20+ times, and lost ZERO.  Across tiers.  Prenz and I have done the same, but not to that extent.

 

Can you imagine - just flying around the map, two bomber pilots who can EACH flip a cap on their own, and they can't be touched because they have escort?  It would be a ROFLstomp EVERY BATTLE.  Hey, let's chase some human population out of the game, huh?



LMG #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 17 May 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

I agree that one player ground pounder can outcap 3 bots, but with just 1 player ground pounder you can shoot them down enough to keep the game fairly balanced. Facing an IL-40 in a tier 8 is pretty much a joke if it's specialized and is using the TG out to 1200m.

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Though imo that applies to most tier 8 planes having to deal with a tier 9 or any type. Mostly since tier 9 aircraft tend to have similar or equal firepower as a tier 10 (and in some cases, greater), let alone those that get improved handling on top of it. My IL-20 can't really survive most encounters against an FJ-1 unless I get a ram, a bombkill or they just sit within my reargunner's firing arc without actually shooting non-stop.

 

Even on my Me 109 TL, the only non-GAA tier 8 I have, I feared being put against tier 9s. Not because they're a tier higher, but because most of them can nuke my plane before I realize I'm getting shot at :amazed:


Edited by LMG, 17 May 2019 - 07:12 PM.

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CorvusCorvax #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:53 PM

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View PostLMG, on 17 May 2019 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

Though imo that applies to most tier 8 planes having to deal with a tier 9 or any type. Mostly since tier 9 aircraft tend to have similar or equal firepower as a tier 10 (and in some cases, greater), let alone those that get improved handling on top of it. My IL-20 can't really survive most encounters against an FJ-1 unless I get a ram, a bombkill or they just sit within my reargunner's firing arc without actually shooting non-stop.

 

Even on my Me 109 TL, the only non-GAA tier 8 I have, I feared being put against tier 9s. Not because they're a tier higher, but because most of them can nuke my plane before I realize I'm getting shot at :amazed:

 

My Me-262 HGII can crush a T8/9 GAA into the ground in a single pass.  Even an IL-40 is dead meat to an HGII.  Humans are generally harder, but an IL-20 vs. HGII?  It's all over but the crying.

WhiteKnight416 #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:21 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 17 May 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

I think the flight mechanics are absolutely ridiculous at this point. We have a max of 2 players in a flight so that flights aren't 'overpowered' yet WG will allow split-tiering and won't limit the types of aircraft in a flight. Putting 2 GA or 2 Bombers ore 1 GA and 1 Bomber together (and then letting them split tier as well) is not fun for anyone except maybe the people who like to do it. There's really no way to beat that if you're up-tiered (again, the split-tiering makes sure that the higher guy won't be up-tiered) and flying solo.

 

My suggestion is this:

 

  1. Bring back 3-player flights - it's something the people want and would increase the social aspect of this game which is somewhat lacking at the moment. Tanks and Ships both have 3-player groups.
  2. Limit the flight composition - unlimited number of light fighters, unlimited multirole fighters, 2 heavies max, and a maximum of one dedicated ground-pounder whether that be a GA or Bomber.
  3. Allow split-tiering,  but put the flight in the MM based on the higher tier aircraft's tier, not the lower.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Split tiering already does use the higher tier aircraft's MM, I was a match the other day in a Tier 9, on my team was a flight with a Tier 8 and Tier 7

 

Agree with Corax, there's no sense limited GA/Bombers, they are scary but can be handled. I'd rather fight a flight of two IL-40Ps than 2 Yak 30s


Edited by WhiteKnight416, 17 May 2019 - 08:22 PM.


Prenzlau #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:45 PM

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    I thought the systematic "nerfing" of bombers was WG's job. Every time a group cries and then awkward and not well thought out reactions/changes follow. Eventually because everyone wants to be a winner, whether they are skilled and deserving or not, everything will be hacked and slashed so that the best players are around 60% and the very worst around 40% and everyone else in between, and there won't be any grand ladder to climb up, it will be a great many 50% win days and nights. Then everyone will be crying that they cannot progress to become elite. So now it's bombers and GA's, next it will be heavy fighters and then the next plane type, until this game is so vanilla that everyone is kinda of a winner and kinda of a loser. 

 

    So then they might eliminate all flights, thus no more complaining. What gets eliminated then is a whole bunch of camaraderie and team play. Add 3 player flights and then the real crying begins, because 3 high win rate players will team and there will be far more lop sided battles. 

 

    The ANSWER to this game's problem has always been the need for greater player population and not just newbies. Not enough players, and that is the problem. If we had 9 v 9 battles of humans the two guys on each side in a flight would not matter as much. When you only have 2-4 humans per side and the rest bots, two good humans in a flight, no matter what they are flying will have a greater impact on the battle.

 

    How about instead of limiting what we have, we expand into things we don't have, like clan wars, ranked battles, a accurate clan ranking system, and then because clans would need players, recruiting would become paramount to success. Ranks of players would increase and WG would make tons of new money. Competition and population is part of the solution. Fixing the game based on the desires and complaints of the majority of players is the other part. This game could be awesome if there just was better leadership, vision, a desire to promote a clan system, restructuring of the game and a better business model.

 

    It seems though that warplanes is NOT ALLOWED to compete with Warships or Tanks. A 3rd rate game is what we have compared to the other two, agree? Disagree?

 

    Reducing and taking away from the game is not always the answer. Some players need to look in the mirror and stop blaming their aptitude on other things and finding excuses. Instead of becoming "better" let us just ratchet down the game so they don't have to be better, to be better. 

 

Cheers!

 

Prenzlau


 

 

 

 


legoboy0401 #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:51 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 17 May 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

    I thought the systematic "nerfing" of bombers was WG's job. Every time a group cries and then awkward and not well thought out reactions/changes follow. Eventually because everyone wants to be a winner, whether they are skilled and deserving or not, everything will be hacked and slashed so that the best players are around 60% and the very worst around 40% and everyone else in between, and there won't be any grand ladder to climb up, it will be a great many 50% win days and nights. Then everyone will be crying that they cannot progress to become elite. So now it's bombers and GA's, next it will be heavy fighters and then the next plane type, until this game is so vanilla that everyone is kinda of a winner and kinda of a loser. 

 

    So then they might eliminate all flights, thus no more complaining. What gets eliminated then is a whole bunch of camaraderie and team play. Add 3 player flights and then the real crying begins, because 3 high win rate players will team and there will be far more lop sided battles. 

 

    The ANSWER to this game's problem has always been the need for greater player population and not just newbies. Not enough players, and that is the problem. If we had 9 v 9 battles of humans the two guys on each side in a flight would not matter as much. When you only have 2-4 humans per side and the rest bots, two good humans in a flight, no matter what they are flying will have a greater impact on the battle.

 

    How about instead of limiting what we have, we expand into things we don't have, like clan wars, ranked battles, a accurate clan ranking system, and then because clans would need players, recruiting would become paramount to success. Ranks of players would increase and WG would make tons of new money. Competition and population is part of the solution. Fixing the game based on the desires and complaints of the majority of players is the other part. This game could be awesome if there just was better leadership, vision, a desire to promote a clan system, restructuring of the game and a better business model.

 

    It seems though that warplanes is NOT ALLOWED to compete with Warships or Tanks. A 3rd rate game is what we have compared to the other two, agree? Disagree?

 

    Reducing and taking away from the game is not always the answer. Some players need to look in the mirror and stop blaming their aptitude on other things and finding excuses. Instead of becoming "better" let us just ratchet down the game so they don't have to be better, to be better. 

 

Cheers!

 

Prenzlau

 

Another great idea would be not making the current event gamemode compulsory for all planes above Tier III.


Edited by legoboy0401, 17 May 2019 - 08:51 PM.

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Stygian_Alchemist #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:03 PM

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I don't think Flights should be allowed to match class, period. You should be required to fly two separate classes in a flight.

Just a personal opinion and one I've no doubt would send most people up the flue.

losttwo #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:43 PM

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What has been my experience.

While I do brag sometimes about being able to beat 3 man flights ( of very good pilots ) while flying solo.

The entire match just really stinks and is very draining.

 

I have also flown in 3 man / 2 man flights of similar aircraft.

Yes, despite my narcissism  it does become overpowering in over than 50% of matches.

2 heavies or 2 GA can be very daunting to the enemy if they are flown properly.

Even if flown by average pilots with gaming experience can normally rule the game.

 

Despite all the algorithms, blogs and other conversations with WG an experienced flight unbalances a match.

There I said it, I used the the word UNBALANCED.

 

So I would have to agree with George above when he suggests that flights must be of different class.

Such as a GA and fighter, GA and multi-role, Bomber and heavy, or a fighter and multi-role.

 

I do not think, despite the altitude variance that a bomber and GA should flight together.

Flights should take on a primary vehicle and " escort ".

 

Perhaps even limit flights to a single fighter + some other type. Even in a 3 man flight, the make up could be 3 different planes,

 

See how it works out for a few patches then change it if it needs to be changed.


Edited by losttwo, 17 May 2019 - 09:44 PM.


Captain_Underpants53 #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:05 PM

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View PostPrenzlau, on 17 May 2019 - 03:45 PM, said:

    I thought the systematic "nerfing" of bombers was WG's job. Every time a group cries and then awkward and not well thought out reactions/changes follow. Eventually because everyone wants to be a winner, whether they are skilled and deserving or not, everything will be hacked and slashed so that the best players are around 60% and the very worst around 40% and everyone else in between, and there won't be any grand ladder to climb up, it will be a great many 50% win days and nights. Then everyone will be crying that they cannot progress to become elite. So now it's bombers and GA's, next it will be heavy fighters and then the next plane type, until this game is so vanilla that everyone is kinda of a winner and kinda of a loser. 

 

    So then they might eliminate all flights, thus no more complaining. What gets eliminated then is a whole bunch of camaraderie and team play. Add 3 player flights and then the real crying begins, because 3 high win rate players will team and there will be far more lop sided battles. 

 

    The ANSWER to this game's problem has always been the need for greater player population and not just newbies. Not enough players, and that is the problem. If we had 9 v 9 battles of humans the two guys on each side in a flight would not matter as much. When you only have 2-4 humans per side and the rest bots, two good humans in a flight, no matter what they are flying will have a greater impact on the battle.

 

    How about instead of limiting what we have, we expand into things we don't have, like clan wars, ranked battles, a accurate clan ranking system, and then because clans would need players, recruiting would become paramount to success. Ranks of players would increase and WG would make tons of new money. Competition and population is part of the solution. Fixing the game based on the desires and complaints of the majority of players is the other part. This game could be awesome if there just was better leadership, vision, a desire to promote a clan system, restructuring of the game and a better business model.

 

    It seems though that warplanes is NOT ALLOWED to compete with Warships or Tanks. A 3rd rate game is what we have compared to the other two, agree? Disagree?

 

    Reducing and taking away from the game is not always the answer. Some players need to look in the mirror and stop blaming their aptitude on other things and finding excuses. Instead of becoming "better" let us just ratchet down the game so they don't have to be better, to be better. 

 

Cheers!

 

Prenzlau

 

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Captain_Underpants53 #17 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:08 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 17 May 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think the flight mechanics are absolutely ridiculous at this point. We have a max of 2 players in a flight so that flights aren't 'overpowered' yet WG will allow split-tiering and won't limit the types of aircraft in a flight. Putting 2 GA or 2 Bombers ore 1 GA and 1 Bomber together (and then letting them split tier as well) is not fun for anyone except maybe the people who like to do it. There's really no way to beat that if you're up-tiered (again, the split-tiering makes sure that the higher guy won't be up-tiered) and flying solo.

 

My suggestion is this:

 

  1. Bring back 3-player flights - it's something the people want and would increase the social aspect of this game which is somewhat lacking at the moment. Tanks and Ships both have 3-player groups.
  2. Limit the flight composition - unlimited number of light fighters, unlimited multirole fighters, 2 heavies max, and a maximum of one dedicated ground-pounder whether that be a GA or Bomber.
  3. Allow split-tiering,  but put the flight in the MM based on the higher tier aircraft's tier, not the lower.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

I can not remember how many battles I have lost because of suicide bots on my side negating my caps or super bot heavies headhunting me relentlessly.  Limiting the GAs and bombers does not solve any thing.
MSgt, USAF, (ret)

Bobby_Tables #18 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:46 PM

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View PostCaptain_Underpants53, on 17 May 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

 

Limiting the GAs and bombers does not solve any thing.

 

Agreed.  



qu33kKC #19 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:54 PM

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@ LMG, regarding bot GA.

 

I have seen WAY too many games where the top spots are bot GAA that have totally dominated the game.  I have VERY little experience at GAA, but I do OK in bombers, and it's very frustrating to have a decent game totally ROFLstomped by a pair of bot GAA.  Happens just as much when I'm flying HF, and have a pair of bot bombers and a pair of bot GAA.  Can't counter both of them at the same time.



GeorgePatton #20 Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:29 AM

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View PostCorvusCorvax, on 17 May 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

 

I have a three-player flight for you to consider:

 

Zigfied. (Bomber)

Prenzlau. (Bomber)

CorvusCorvax (Heavy fighter)

 

Who wants to guess the win percentage of that combination?  I'll take a guess, just because:

 

98%.  In the beginning, it would be a little lower.  But as folks got to recognize what that looked like, they would just drop to hangar.

 

I'm not going to pat my back here, but I will give you some cold facts:  With Prenz or Zig as my flightmate, them flying bomber, and me flying HF, we win at close to 90%.  I flew one day with Zig, and we flew 20+ times, and lost ZERO.  Across tiers.  Prenz and I have done the same, but not to that extent.

 

Can you imagine - just flying around the map, two bomber pilots who can EACH flip a cap on their own, and they can't be touched because they have escort?  It would be a ROFLstomp EVERY BATTLE.  Hey, let's chase some human population out of the game, huh?

 

I think you missed a big part of my point, mate! The idea of limiting classes in a flight so we wouldn't see more than one aircraft truly capable of hitting GTs and one heavy. The heavies seemed to be the problem before, and GA/Bombers are a bit of a problem now.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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