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Continuing Discussion of the Visibility System


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wylleEcoyote #21 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:53 AM

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Sorry if i bring up stuff mentioned before. In the time it took me to make this post the number of replies went from 6 to 23

Yes. I would like to see a change of how the minimap displays its information.
Lets dig out my "wish list" and dive into the details of what I would like to see happen

At present it shows a circle with our plane (and its current direction) out to one of three ranges. (numbers listed elsewhere)
All the other arrows show all other visible planes and their current direction. Color coded for ally neutral and enemy.

Messing about with the system setting and you can have a smaller shaded circle that surrounds your plane.
Anything that is close to it will be automatically reporting your position to its team. and most likely see you and react accordingly
Spoiler

This shaded region is also the range at which you can return the favor.
All things being equal these values are the same. so one shaded region will do. Because K.I.S.S.

But that is not the way things are anymore. there are now many things that can change these values so they dont match up anymore.

Personally i would like to have this shaded circle match up to the current range that my plane can be detected.
with the closer it is being the better, ideally and its border could be clearly defined by some sort of primary color but not required due to the whole region being relatively small (ideally) and shaded
Currently the radius of that circle is being determined by the plane tier.
However i would also like some more details worked into the math that determines the base radius here.
Spoiler

Beyond factoring in the basics we should consider the add ons.
 concealment bonuses from camo and other skins (in later tiers Navigational Radio Equipment). 
[relevant tangential question]

And whether or not the bonuses from different items that do the same thing merely overlap or stack on top of each other.
Spoiler

all of this wrapped up into one convenient number in the server that clients can use while rendering the game.

And having that radius of the concealment circle expand by the appropriate amounts when certain temporary effects are triggered.
Things like shooting forward guns, using boost, or being on fire.
And contract while inside a cloud bank would be fantastic as well.
oh that last bit is worth a separate paragraph
 
Spoiler

In addition to the above shaded circle. The minimap should contain another zone centered around your plane.
Not shaded at all. the radius of this circle should be the range that you detect other planes. 
Taking into account:
     the number of crew. (More Mark I Mod.0 eyeballs is always better)
     whether or not they are injured.

    whether or not they have Vigilance/Eagle Eyed perks.
    whether or not Cruise flight is active.
    the base effects of equipped NRE (and its bonus stuff) should also be included in the radius as well.

This can lead to vast differences from the normal spotting distance from one plane to the next. 
(The german valkyrie could have a spotting range at teir 8+ that maxes out at 4 kilometers if my math is right)
so a 'sixth sense' indicator of when you are actually detected would be fantastic. 
It wont say what (or where ) that detection is coming from.
Just a notice; for someone trying to be not noticed, that the jig is up.  


But considering how difficult it has been for WeeGee  to fix the issues with making the other active temporary effect indicators work; i would place this under "wish list" with no expectation of it actually happening.

Lastly i must recognize that this minimap  is a two dimensional representation of a three dimensional sphere. there is an upward and downward limit to what you see that really can matter to planes that fly at the top and bottom of the altitude bands
 

Example



So the mini map plane indicators can have some sort of indication of altitude.

Do you want to know more?



Making this happen (especially for the colorblind) would be a real pain. 
 


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 15 May 2019 - 08:33 AM.

        


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #22 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:59 AM

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wow... plus1

Spoiler

 


Edited by Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, 15 May 2019 - 03:03 AM.

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


wylleEcoyote #23 Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:09 AM

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View PostAce_BOTlistic_Cosmo, on 14 May 2019 - 09:59 PM, said:

wow... plus1

 

 

Just "doing my part" toward making sure we be proper xwing commanders and 'Stay On Target' when it comes to discussing the topic at hand.

Blindfold locked the last one because the conversation quickly got lost in the weeds.
Doing the same fucing thing the not even 24 hours later will just prove to WeeGee that we players are beyond helping.

And worse, convert the forum experience completely into a one way ticket to  "screaming into The Void"
because Blindfold turned off their notifications for the thread a long long time ago. In a server far far away ...

        


GeorgePatton #24 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:11 AM

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Reporting off-topic discussion. Nothing personal, but I do want this thread to stay constructive on the actual topic of view mechanics. We strayed a little (but stayed related) with the map discussion and then it started going downhill. I'm not reporting the map discussion posts, but I will ask that if you want to discuss something specific like the radar altimeter, etc you talk about it in a new thread so we can keep on-topic.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn


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Bubba_Zanetti #25 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:18 AM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 14 May 2019 - 11:11 PM, said:

Reporting off-topic discussion. Nothing personal, but I do want this thread to stay constructive on the actual topic of view mechanics. We strayed a little (but stayed related) with the map discussion and then it started going downhill. I'm not reporting the map discussion posts, but I will ask that if you want to discuss something specific like the radar altimeter, etc you talk about it in a new thread so we can keep on-topic.

 

 

Cheers!
Glenn

 

Are you on crack Glenn?  How long have you been here on and off over the years???

 

Have your post..it ain't going anywhere productive and you friggin know it.  No one likes a narc..pfft.

 

And I thought you left for good...you're word is as good as WG's...pathetic. :facepalm:


 

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Bobby_Tables #26 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:18 AM

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Thanks, right, view mechanics., whew! thanks for the clarification.. 

 

/Start *View Mechanics Discussion*

 

Getting back on topic, I think they are fine.  No issues.

 

\End *View Mechanics Discussion*   


Edited by Bobby_Tables, 15 May 2019 - 04:19 AM.


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #27 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:21 AM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 14 May 2019 - 11:18 PM, said:

Thanks, right, view mechanics., whew! thanks for the clarification.. 

 

/Start *View Mechanics Discussion*

 

Getting back on topic, I think they are fine.  No issues.

 

\End *View Mechanics Discussion*   

all is great... rgr that

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Edited by Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, 15 May 2019 - 04:22 AM.

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


wylleEcoyote #28 Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:43 AM

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View PostBobby_Tables, on 14 May 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

 

Seriously, I think you have used up your Spoilers for the day.  I mean, daaaaaammmmmnnnnn that's a lot of Spoilers.  Your prose is about as prolific as pretzelnau, but your attempt to hide it in Spoilers fools no one but the lonely.

 

Without the spoilers the post would be twice as long.
I need some place to put the details that are important but not strictly necessary to the main point i am trying to make.
Trust me, I'm doing y'all a favor


[edit] i had to restrain myself from putting that second sentence in a spoiler box.
Yes. I have a problem.


Edited by wylleEcoyote, 15 May 2019 - 08:57 AM.

        


blindfoId #29 Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:05 PM

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View PostGeorgePatton, on 14 May 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

Hey Everyone!

 

I read a couple posts in the official feedback thread (which was recently locked) this morning and wanted to continue that discussion. Specifically, White_Widow18 said the following:

 

 

Firstly, thank you for the effort. I did like the discussion going on and it'll be interesting to read more of your (and I mean all players who is interested in sharing their opinion) speculations on the topic. Keep it up!

 

And secondly, I'd like to explain closing official feedback thread. Official threads are open for a period of time for you to share your ideas and thoughts. Then I collect all of them and send to the developers team, summing them up and providing examples of posts as it is. Thus, this information is sent, let's say, on May 13 which means that any posts in the thread after that date are not included in the summary made at a give point of time. So the official feedback thread needs to be closed. At least, for preventing off-topic. Though I surely keep the team up-to-date on what opinions are shared, questions asked and ideas discussed. Thanks once again for a separate thread for discussion.



trikke #30 Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:51 PM

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so many posts here deserved plus-ones, but i ran out early today

 

ty for explaining why an official feedback thread gets closed, BF         we just assumed it was because we were bad


Spittoon says #smarterpilotswinmore

mnbv_fockewulfe #31 Posted 15 May 2019 - 10:32 PM

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View PostblindfoId, on 15 May 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

Firstly, thank you for the effort. I did like the discussion going on and it'll be interesting to read more of your (and I mean all players who is interested in sharing their opinion) speculations on the topic. Keep it up!

 

And secondly, I'd like to explain closing official feedback thread. Official threads are open for a period of time for you to share your ideas and thoughts. Then I collect all of them and send to the developers team, summing them up and providing examples of posts as it is. Thus, this information is sent, let's say, on May 13 which means that any posts in the thread after that date are not included in the summary made at a give point of time. So the official feedback thread needs to be closed. At least, for preventing off-topic. Though I surely keep the team up-to-date on what opinions are shared, questions asked and ideas discussed. Thank once again for a separate thread for discussion.

 

Personally, I disagree with the practice you have in RU.

First, we have many fewer dedicated forumgame2.0 players here than RU.

So what you let people talk after the feedback has been sent?
Of topic is the last thing we're worried about here.


Be sure to check your logic privileges before posting on the forum.

 


 


Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo #32 Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:59 PM

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View Postmnbv_fockewulfe, on 15 May 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

Personally, I disagree with the practice you have in RU.

First, we have many fewer dedicated forumgame2.0 players here than RU.

So what you let people talk after the feedback has been sent?
Of topic is the last thing we're worried about here.

what he's saying is that we have a mix that other forums would envy...

we have brainiacs and stat geeks

visionaries and dreamers

social types and azz kissers

anger monkeys and conspiracy masters

and some of the finest and funniest trolls to ever forage on the internets

all while maintaining a magical level of respect and decorum

yeah... ru be jelououous

:popcorn:

 

 


Edited by Ace_BOTlistic_Cosmo, 16 May 2019 - 12:00 AM.

if the pilot's good, see, I mean, if he's really..sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low [he spreads his arms like wings and laughs],

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.


CorvusCorvax #33 Posted 16 May 2019 - 04:14 PM

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I have been considering this topic on and off for a while now.  If it were up to me, I would implement the following:

 

Stealth builds, including camo paint, would have a speed penalty.  Bright, shiny natural metal finishes would have a speed bonus.  Buy one or both, use as desired.  This would include NRE mounting.  You get bonus to stealth and vision, but you get a reduction in speed.

 

I do not want the battles to go any longer.  This has always been an arcade game, and one of the strengths is that you don't have too much realism.  While I might argue that 2.x went too far in simplifying, getting into cat-and-mouse over the course of a 20-minute battle isn't my idea of fun.  I want to fly, blow stuff up, and move on.  I want to fly several different kinds of planes in a session, not just have one flight, and be done.  (BTW, sidebar - I like the squall line mechanic, because it allows a team that is behind to win.  I have had the game-winning kill on several occasions, and it is VERY satisfying.  It was pretty satisfying in 1.x, but in 2.x it's almost more fun.)  In any case, too much stealth would allow a pilot to just hide and wait out the clock.  BORING.

 

The minimap mechanic should probably have some uncertainty, and not report in real time, UNLESS you have it set to your visual range or less.  At the same time, it should provide, as a trade off, more info.  Not only horizontal distance, but vertical, by using the size of the pointer.  I have my minimap set up as a tactical help, so 2km is the size of my radius.  I use the TAB key for strategic planning.  So, if the minimap displayed relative altitude information, that would be grand. 



J311yfish #34 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:36 PM

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Related issue -- an aircraft like Macchi C.200 has pilot visibility baked into the design.  Refinement of the stealth/visibility system could be one avenue to make Italian aircraft unique and compelling.

 

Other examples

-- Piaggio P.119

-- Savoia-Marchetti SM.89


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